Indy5 wrote:Schwab, I'm going to address you because you seem to usually have some insight on South Dakota. Do you think SD works better because of their 3 class system? Personally, I don't. I've been to the Class B tournament at the Barnett Center at Northern State. The place seats maybe a little over 6,000, and it wasn't full. The atmosphere was fine, but it wasn't anything like the ND tournament. Saturday night was the fullest I have ever seen the Dome. Over 9,500 in attendance and it felt like it. Aside from the buzz kill of not shutting the lights off, it was a pretty electric crowd I felt. I was with someone who grew up in SD, and they were pretty jealous of what they saw from our tournament.
I understand that a system can't be designed simply around a good state tournament or a good title game. I am in favor of 2 classes. I can see the other viewpoints though. If you want 3 classes, it will be at the expense of the state tournament. That is the reality. As to whether it's worth it or not, that's subjective. Will it be completely destroyed? No, but it won't be the same.
The Schwab wrote:Indy5 wrote:Schwab, I'm going to address you because you seem to usually have some insight on South Dakota. Do you think SD works better because of their 3 class system? Personally, I don't. I've been to the Class B tournament at the Barnett Center at Northern State. The place seats maybe a little over 6,000, and it wasn't full. The atmosphere was fine, but it wasn't anything like the ND tournament. Saturday night was the fullest I have ever seen the Dome. Over 9,500 in attendance and it felt like it. Aside from the buzz kill of not shutting the lights off, it was a pretty electric crowd I felt. I was with someone who grew up in SD, and they were pretty jealous of what they saw from our tournament.
I understand that a system can't be designed simply around a good state tournament or a good title game. I am in favor of 2 classes. I can see the other viewpoints though. If you want 3 classes, it will be at the expense of the state tournament. That is the reality. As to whether it's worth it or not, that's subjective. Will it be completely destroyed? No, but it won't be the same.
Every single coach I've talked to in SD loves their 3 class system. As for the state class B tournament it all depends on what session you go to, the first 3 sessions of the Class B aren't that well attended, the 4th fairly well, the 5th not much at all and the 6th is always packed (probably has a lot to do with the parade of champions. I bet if you were at the final night of the SD state tournament the atmosphere would pretty pretty electric. I 100 percent disagree that the atmosphere of the state B in a 3 class system wouldn't be as electric as it is now, it might even be better.
The Schwab wrote:South Dakota has 11 towns above 10,000 we have 9. The make-up of our states is very similar. We have 40ish towns between 1,000 and 4,000...sounds like a good middle class to me
The Schwab wrote:South Dakota has 11 towns above 10,000 we have 9. The make-up of our states is very similar. We have 40ish towns between 1,000 and 4,000...sounds like a good middle class to me
Sniper wrote:My thoughts:
1. Too many people are looking at the final result instead of the problem. As someone who has played in "the B" it is great, and everyone knows that, but the problem is this great event that was meant to be shared by small towns is becoming a big city event. There are a handful of teams in the class b that have an obvious advantage over everyone else and these teams are becoming around half of "the B" each year. We have an uneven playing field.
2. I fully believe that "the B" would be just as good or even better with a third class (unless the middle class is made too big). The small towns that would make it instead of the privates would for sure travel well and bring the whole community to be a part of this. Also I think more students from around the state would go to watch the matchups. The last thing a small town kid wants to watch is a Fargo school play a Bismarck school in "the B".
3. Putting teams in an even playing field is not the same thing as giving everyone a trophy. With three classes we would have three state champions. For football we currently have four state champions, and we have less football teams than basketball teams. I do not hear anyone complaining about giving everyone a trophy in football.
The Schwab wrote:Indy5 wrote:Schwab, I'm going to address you because you seem to usually have some insight on South Dakota. Do you think SD works better because of their 3 class system? Personally, I don't. I've been to the Class B tournament at the Barnett Center at Northern State. The place seats maybe a little over 6,000, and it wasn't full. The atmosphere was fine, but it wasn't anything like the ND tournament. Saturday night was the fullest I have ever seen the Dome. Over 9,500 in attendance and it felt like it. Aside from the buzz kill of not shutting the lights off, it was a pretty electric crowd I felt. I was with someone who grew up in SD, and they were pretty jealous of what they saw from our tournament.
I understand that a system can't be designed simply around a good state tournament or a good title game. I am in favor of 2 classes. I can see the other viewpoints though. If you want 3 classes, it will be at the expense of the state tournament. That is the reality. As to whether it's worth it or not, that's subjective. Will it be completely destroyed? No, but it won't be the same.
Every single coach I've talked to in SD loves their 3 class system. As for the state class B tournament it all depends on what session you go to, the first 3 sessions of the Class B aren't that well attended, the 4th fairly well, the 5th not much at all and the 6th is always packed (probably has a lot to do with the parade of champions. I bet if you were at the final night of the SD state tournament the atmosphere would pretty pretty electric. I 100 percent disagree that the atmosphere of the state B in a 3 class system wouldn't be as electric as it is now, it might even be better.
Sportsrube wrote:Good post. I am kind of stuck in the middle between moving all Privates into Class A or going to a 3 class system with all the Privates in the middle or upper class. I do not buy the idea that having 3 classes would kill the B tournament, it hasn't in SD and it will not here.. I think the B would still be big and the A would be big with AA staying about the same as it is now as far as attendance, etc... The problem with 3 classes might be finding venues if you hold them on 3 separate weekends. Maybe combining Boys/Girls state tournaments for all 3 classes?
Run4Fun2009 wrote:I've heard SD is considering 4 classes this offseason
Run4Fun2009 wrote:The Schwab wrote:Indy5 wrote:Schwab, I'm going to address you because you seem to usually have some insight on South Dakota. Do you think SD works better because of their 3 class system? Personally, I don't. I've been to the Class B tournament at the Barnett Center at Northern State. The place seats maybe a little over 6,000, and it wasn't full. The atmosphere was fine, but it wasn't anything like the ND tournament. Saturday night was the fullest I have ever seen the Dome. Over 9,500 in attendance and it felt like it. Aside from the buzz kill of not shutting the lights off, it was a pretty electric crowd I felt. I was with someone who grew up in SD, and they were pretty jealous of what they saw from our tournament.
I understand that a system can't be designed simply around a good state tournament or a good title game. I am in favor of 2 classes. I can see the other viewpoints though. If you want 3 classes, it will be at the expense of the state tournament. That is the reality. As to whether it's worth it or not, that's subjective. Will it be completely destroyed? No, but it won't be the same.
Every single coach I've talked to in SD loves their 3 class system. As for the state class B tournament it all depends on what session you go to, the first 3 sessions of the Class B aren't that well attended, the 4th fairly well, the 5th not much at all and the 6th is always packed (probably has a lot to do with the parade of champions. I bet if you were at the final night of the SD state tournament the atmosphere would pretty pretty electric. I 100 percent disagree that the atmosphere of the state B in a 3 class system wouldn't be as electric as it is now, it might even be better.
I've heard SD is considering 4 classes this offseason
ndlionsfan wrote:B-oldtimer hit on some important points. Back when I played 20 years ago, team camps were just really getting started. There was no AAU ball in the state that I knew of anyway. We started playing ball after football was done in the fall to get in shape before the season. We also had a few open gyms in the summer and played a bunch of pick up ball on the outdoor courts. It was just getting to the point where you had to play basketball year round to compete. But all of us played football, basketball, track as well and I think that played more of a role in our success than anything. I believe the coaches are seeing the value in playing multiple sports again and are promoting that more than specializing in a single sport. Hopefully that trend continues.
The Schwab wrote:In response to your post, not once have I ever said that grinsteinner, dwyer, card etc... aren't good coaches and if anyone says they aren't that person doesn't understand basketball. They are great coaches who have built awesome programs. Just because a school has 30 kids in a class doesn't mean they are the same as another school who has 30 kids in a class. There are numerous advantages to not having defined school district lines, it changes every aspect of your school, right down to the kids who attend. My support of the 3 class system is based on equality, giving schools of like size and makeup a chance to compete against each other in the postseason.
The Schwab wrote:In response to your post, not once have I ever said that grinsteinner, dwyer, card etc... aren't good coaches and if anyone says they aren't that person doesn't understand basketball. They are great coaches who have built awesome programs. Just because a school has 30 kids in a class doesn't mean they are the same as another school who has 30 kids in a class. There are numerous advantages to not having defined school district lines, it changes every aspect of your school, right down to the kids who attend. My support of the 3 class system is based on equality, giving schools of like size and makeup a chance to compete against each other in the postseason.
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