defensewinsgames wrote:I would give it to Hughes over Sieben for a variety of reasons.... I also think some teams are going to have a bad taste in their mouth from Grafton's insisting on running the scores up, pressing when it is already 40+ points etc....
airmail wrote:Agree with you here. Saw Sieben get her 2000th point yesterday, but my first thought was how many of those came in the 4th quarter of blowouts while other kids of equal talent are sitting in that situation. Seen it way too many times over the past 5 seasons.
(Personally, I think Julia Dusek is the best player on the Grafton squad anyway. )
Hughes should get it in Region 2 hands down - maybe Miss B also if you look at her career performance. Just waiting for the cop-out and giving a co-recipient award.
airmail wrote:Agree with you here. Saw Sieben get her 2000th point yesterday, but my first thought was how many of those came in the 4th quarter of blowouts while other kids of equal talent are sitting in that situation. Seen it way too many times over the past 5 seasons.
(Personally, I think Julia Dusek is the best player on the Grafton squad anyway. )
Flip wrote:airmail wrote:Agree with you here. Saw Sieben get her 2000th point yesterday, but my first thought was how many of those came in the 4th quarter of blowouts while other kids of equal talent are sitting in that situation. Seen it way too many times over the past 5 seasons.
It's also the games when they're up 40 at halftime and Sieben played 16 minutes in the first half. Her teammates help so much too. She can leak out after almost every shot because they're still going to get a defensive rebound. The perimeter players can gamble as much as they want on defense because Demers is probably the best rim protector in class B.
But make no mistake Carlee Sieben is a VERY good player.(Personally, I think Julia Dusek is the best player on the Grafton squad anyway. )
A very respected person in region 2 told me the same thing. I'm not sure Dusek is better than Demers.
ChickenNuggets wrote:Very interesting topic and takes on it... I have seen a number of times when kids in football get passed over for post-season accolades because they play on tremendous teams and they only put up 24 minutes of stats and the starters get pulled at halftime. I've seen a number of kids/coaches get chastised because they play their starters more in a blowout than what other deem necessary. Here's my honest opinion on this:
These teams/players who are very good and outmatch many or all of their opponents didn't just wake up one day with this level of ability. They have obviously put in many hours in the offseason. I've been around sports for long enough to know that not every player/team puts in this type of effort. So when a team becomes dominant because of all the work that they put in, because they love the sport, because they're willing to sacrifice other things in their life for extra drills, extra lifts, extra summer camps, extra open gyms... why are we going to punish them or make them feel bad if they play in the second half of a lop-sided game? I just don't understand the mind-set that many have that "Hey you guys are really good because you work so hard, so because you've done so much more than everyone else in your region when it comes to this particular game that you love and no one else can do it as good as you, you probably should not play a full game. Play less, Play only half of the game so that the people who DO NOT put in the same time and effort as you do all year long can have their fun because that's "Sportsmanship"... No, that's BS! If a kid/team is putting in that much more because they love basketball, football, volleyball, etc... then they deserve to play four full quarters of every game they have on their schedule. Why should the stats that they accrue when they're up 30-40 points be worth any less than the stats that they accrue in the first half while they're building that monstrous lead? Why should the stats that they accrue with a 30-40 point lead count any less just because the players on the team in the town over isn't good enough to build a big lead so they're in close games all the time?
I don't have a dog in this fight. I know I've never seen Oase play and I've seen Sieben or Hughes maybe once or twice, and I don't even follow basketball very closely to begin with, but I am a fan of sports and I appreciate the work that the elite level athletes put into their games, so I just think it's pure BS to downplay what someone is able to do just because their opponents aren't good enough to stop them. Quit punishing kids for becoming too good! Instead of calling out "Coaching etiquette" of the coach who leads her team to blow-out wins, maybe we should hold accountable the coaches of the teams who don't put in enough work to be able to keep it close with these teams like Grafton. I bet the girls on the Grafton team who win a lot of blow-outs probably give up a lot of time at the lake (or other fun activities) in the summers to go to camps, play travel leagues, go to open gyms, etc. and I bet that the teams that they're "Beating by 40-50 points and padding their stats against" are spending a lot more time at the lake than they are shooting baskets. But come winter, dammit, Grafton's players should only play half-games because they're too good and the other teams can't do what they are doing.
Rant over....
ChickenNuggets wrote:Very interesting topic and takes on it... I have seen a number of times when kids in football get passed over for post-season accolades because they play on tremendous teams and they only put up 24 minutes of stats and the starters get pulled at halftime. I've seen a number of kids/coaches get chastised because they play their starters more in a blowout than what other deem necessary. Here's my honest opinion on this:
These teams/players who are very good and outmatch many or all of their opponents didn't just wake up one day with this level of ability. They have obviously put in many hours in the offseason. I've been around sports for long enough to know that not every player/team puts in this type of effort. So when a team becomes dominant because of all the work that they put in, because they love the sport, because they're willing to sacrifice other things in their life for extra drills, extra lifts, extra summer camps, extra open gyms... why are we going to punish them or make them feel bad if they play in the second half of a lop-sided game? I just don't understand the mind-set that many have that "Hey you guys are really good because you work so hard, so because you've done so much more than everyone else in your region when it comes to this particular game that you love and no one else can do it as good as you, you probably should not play a full game. Play less, Play only half of the game so that the people who DO NOT put in the same time and effort as you do all year long can have their fun because that's "Sportsmanship"... No, that's BS! If a kid/team is putting in that much more because they love basketball, football, volleyball, etc... then they deserve to play four full quarters of every game they have on their schedule. Why should the stats that they accrue when they're up 30-40 points be worth any less than the stats that they accrue in the first half while they're building that monstrous lead? Why should the stats that they accrue with a 30-40 point lead count any less just because the players on the team in the town over isn't good enough to build a big lead so they're in close games all the time?
I don't have a dog in this fight. I know I've never seen Oase play and I've seen Sieben or Hughes maybe once or twice, and I don't even follow basketball very closely to begin with, but I am a fan of sports and I appreciate the work that the elite level athletes put into their games, so I just think it's pure BS to downplay what someone is able to do just because their opponents aren't good enough to stop them. Quit punishing kids for becoming too good! Instead of calling out "Coaching etiquette" of the coach who leads her team to blow-out wins, maybe we should hold accountable the coaches of the teams who don't put in enough work to be able to keep it close with these teams like Grafton. I bet the girls on the Grafton team who win a lot of blow-outs probably give up a lot of time at the lake (or other fun activities) in the summers to go to camps, play travel leagues, go to open gyms, etc. and I bet that the teams that they're "Beating by 40-50 points and padding their stats against" are spending a lot more time at the lake than they are shooting baskets. But come winter, dammit, Grafton's players should only play half-games because they're too good and the other teams can't do what they are doing.
Rant over....
ChickenNuggets wrote:Very interesting topic and takes on it... I have seen a number of times when kids in football get passed over for post-season accolades because they play on tremendous teams and they only put up 24 minutes of stats and the starters get pulled at halftime. I've seen a number of kids/coaches get chastised because they play their starters more in a blowout than what other deem necessary. Here's my honest opinion on this:
These teams/players who are very good and outmatch many or all of their opponents didn't just wake up one day with this level of ability. They have obviously put in many hours in the offseason. I've been around sports for long enough to know that not every player/team puts in this type of effort. So when a team becomes dominant because of all the work that they put in, because they love the sport, because they're willing to sacrifice other things in their life for extra drills, extra lifts, extra summer camps, extra open gyms... why are we going to punish them or make them feel bad if they play in the second half of a lop-sided game? I just don't understand the mind-set that many have that "Hey you guys are really good because you work so hard, so because you've done so much more than everyone else in your region when it comes to this particular game that you love and no one else can do it as good as you, you probably should not play a full game. Play less, Play only half of the game so that the people who DO NOT put in the same time and effort as you do all year long can have their fun because that's "Sportsmanship"... No, that's BS! If a kid/team is putting in that much more because they love basketball, football, volleyball, etc... then they deserve to play four full quarters of every game they have on their schedule. Why should the stats that they accrue when they're up 30-40 points be worth any less than the stats that they accrue in the first half while they're building that monstrous lead? Why should the stats that they accrue with a 30-40 point lead count any less just because the players on the team in the town over isn't good enough to build a big lead so they're in close games all the time?
I don't have a dog in this fight. I know I've never seen Oase play and I've seen Sieben or Hughes maybe once or twice, and I don't even follow basketball very closely to begin with, but I am a fan of sports and I appreciate the work that the elite level athletes put into their games, so I just think it's pure BS to downplay what someone is able to do just because their opponents aren't good enough to stop them. Quit punishing kids for becoming too good! Instead of calling out "Coaching etiquette" of the coach who leads her team to blow-out wins, maybe we should hold accountable the coaches of the teams who don't put in enough work to be able to keep it close with these teams like Grafton. I bet the girls on the Grafton team who win a lot of blow-outs probably give up a lot of time at the lake (or other fun activities) in the summers to go to camps, play travel leagues, go to open gyms, etc. and I bet that the teams that they're "Beating by 40-50 points and padding their stats against" are spending a lot more time at the lake than they are shooting baskets. But come winter, dammit, Grafton's players should only play half-games because they're too good and the other teams can't do what they are doing.
Rant over....
Sportsrube wrote:When I was coaching, I never worried about how many points I got beat by or how many points I beat someone by. It's how it is done that is the issue. If you leave starters in and are still pressing full court in the 4th quarter of a 40 point blowout I have an issue with that. If your bench wants to press my bench, or press my starters, go ahead, have at it. If it's a 30 point game at the end of the 3rd quarter and your bench can increase that lead to 40+, go ahead. How it's done matters more than the final score for a lot of us.
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