Run4Fun2009 wrote:Question...is the step through a travel now-a-days because EVERYONE calls for it on that move.
Your pivot foot can leave the floor as long as it doesn't return to the floor. This is in all cases not just step throughs.
Run4Fun2009 wrote:Question...is the step through a travel now-a-days because EVERYONE calls for it on that move.
winner-within wrote:now back to top....player fakes the three takes off to the hole (right or left) whistle blows....travel!
which is a turn over....this happens a lot! and I believe some are and some aren't but its a call that can happen at a crucial time in a game.....you almost have remind your player "don't fake the three and take off"
d_fense wrote:balla45, you are 100% correct. That is what drives me nuts. Sportsfan25, along with many don't know what they are talking about regarding rules. Without even looking at the clip, just going off what Sportsfan25 wrote, it clearly isn't a travel. Yet he thinks what he describes is 3 steps. No, it isn't! Think of it this way. Picking up the ball with one foot down and the other in the air. Are you allowed to put the foot you have in the air down? Of coarse you are. May you use that foot you just put down as a pivot? Yes! Can you pivot on your pivot foot? YES! After pivoting, may you jump off you non pivoting foot? YES!!!
If it looks "different", something isn't correct and it must be a violation. Everyone has been to a game and there is a ref that doesn't think it is allowed to fake a shot or pass and then drive. No question there are times when a player will take a false step back with their push off foot, and that is a travel, but very often if you look at the play on film, there was never a violation. I would love to rant on about this, but what's the point?
ndlionsfan wrote:winner-within wrote:now back to top....player fakes the three takes off to the hole (right or left) whistle blows....travel!
which is a turn over....this happens a lot! and I believe some are and some aren't but its a call that can happen at a crucial time in a game.....you almost have remind your player "don't fake the three and take off"
It doesn't really have anything to do with the fake, its if the player dribbles before the pivot foot leaves the floor. Some players get their feet moving before the dribble and it's a travel.
COUGARS wrote:Should this have been called a travel or a game winner? Great shot, but how would you like to be on the other end of this one...........?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhyZEG4 ... e=youtu.be
winner-within wrote:ndlionsfan wrote:winner-within wrote:now back to top....player fakes the three takes off to the hole (right or left) whistle blows....travel!
which is a turn over....this happens a lot! and I believe some are and some aren't but its a call that can happen at a crucial time in a game.....you almost have remind your player "don't fake the three and take off"
It doesn't really have anything to do with the fake, its if the player dribbles before the pivot foot leaves the floor. Some players get their feet moving before the dribble and it's a travel.
it actually does....because thats when I always see it happen....
it doesn't happen when player 1 passes to player 2, player 2 catches it, takes a look around and takes off dribbling....it correlates with the faked shot, which is a three step process... fake, put ball on floor, lift pivot and go....but the problem is if you are in a shooting stance both feet are grounded, both being essentially the pivot until player decides which direction he will bolt.....and I believe this is where the official can get a false impression of travel....dont get me wrong! some are obvious and are definitely travel.....but some are not.....I believe there is a perception per say that this is a difficult feat, like a Euro, or a jump step....and that player has to stick closer to fundamentals.....in other words, officials for the most part played ball and were coached by somebody or maybe even coached themselves and some coaches were/are more fundamentalist then others...
ndlionsfan wrote:winner-within wrote:ndlionsfan wrote:winner-within wrote:now back to top....player fakes the three takes off to the hole (right or left) whistle blows....travel!
which is a turn over....this happens a lot! and I believe some are and some aren't but its a call that can happen at a crucial time in a game.....you almost have remind your player "don't fake the three and take off"
It doesn't really have anything to do with the fake, its if the player dribbles before the pivot foot leaves the floor. Some players get their feet moving before the dribble and it's a travel.
it actually does....because thats when I always see it happen....
it doesn't happen when player 1 passes to player 2, player 2 catches it, takes a look around and takes off dribbling....it correlates with the faked shot, which is a three step process... fake, put ball on floor, lift pivot and go....but the problem is if you are in a shooting stance both feet are grounded, both being essentially the pivot until player decides which direction he will bolt.....and I believe this is where the official can get a false impression of travel....dont get me wrong! some are obvious and are definitely travel.....but some are not.....I believe there is a perception per say that this is a difficult feat, like a Euro, or a jump step....and that player has to stick closer to fundamentals.....in other words, officials for the most part played ball and were coached by somebody or maybe even coached themselves and some coaches were/are more fundamentalist then others...
It does happen just as often with the first instance I underlined. Players just get quick feet. With the second instance, it depends on how the player comes set when receiving the pass. If the player has good fundamentals and uses a jump stop to catch the pass with both feet hitting the floor at the same time, then yes, they have a choice of either foot as the pivot. A lot of times this doesn't happen and the player catches the ball with one foot on the floor making that his pivot. Then tries to gather themselves to set up for the shot, the fake, or the drive, and ends up switching pivots and is called for a travel.
sportsfan25 wrote:d_fense wrote:balla45, you are 100% correct. That is what drives me nuts. Sportsfan25, along with many don't know what they are talking about regarding rules. Without even looking at the clip, just going off what Sportsfan25 wrote, it clearly isn't a travel. Yet he thinks what he describes is 3 steps. No, it isn't! Think of it this way. Picking up the ball with one foot down and the other in the air. Are you allowed to put the foot you have in the air down? Of coarse you are. May you use that foot you just put down as a pivot? Yes! Can you pivot on your pivot foot? YES! After pivoting, may you jump off you non pivoting foot? YES!!!
If it looks "different", something isn't correct and it must be a violation. Everyone has been to a game and there is a ref that doesn't think it is allowed to fake a shot or pass and then drive. No question there are times when a player will take a false step back with their push off foot, and that is a travel, but very often if you look at the play on film, there was never a violation. I would love to rant on about this, but what's the point?
I was going to leave this alone, but being told I don't know what I'm talking about bothers me. According to the rulebook (granted the 2014-2015 version, but I doubt it's changed), Rule 4, Section 44: (And I only took the parts that apply to the video)
"Traveling is moving a foot or feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits while holding the ball. The limits on foot movements are as follows: ...
Art. 2... A player who catches the ball while moving or dribbling may stop and establish a pivot foot as follows:...
b. If one foot is on the floor:
1. It is the pivot when the other foot touches in a step.
2. The player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both. Neither foot ban be a pivot in this case.
Art. 3... After coming to a stop and establishing a pivot foot:
a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the floor, before the ball is released on a pass or try for a goal."
So, in the case of the Harden video, he picks up his dribble with his right foot on the ground and left foot in the air and then takes a step with his left; thus, by article 2, Harden's right foot is his pivot foot. Now, he can step to his left and take off and take a shot, but he CANNOT step back to his right. You are correct that you can step and shoot from your non-pivot foot (Article 3), but according to the NFHS rulebook, the foot that was on the ground when he picked up the ball is the pivot foot.
It's the same rule that makes high school kids get called for a travel when their back foot slips when they try to stop their dribble on the perimeter instead of coming to a jump stop. Otherwise that back foot dragging wouldn't matter because their other foot could be considered the pivot foot.
I appreciate people's opinions, but please don't insult me and tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.
d_fense wrote:balla45, you are 100% correct. That is what drives me nuts. Sportsfan25, along with many don't know what they are talking about regarding rules. Without even looking at the clip, just going off what Sportsfan25 wrote, it clearly isn't a travel. Yet he thinks what he describes is 3 steps. No, it isn't! Think of it this way. Picking up the ball with one foot down and the other in the air. Are you allowed to put the foot you have in the air down? Of coarse you are. May you use that foot you just put down as a pivot? Yes! Can you pivot on your pivot foot? YES! After pivoting, may you jump off you non pivoting foot? YES!!!
If it looks "different", something isn't correct and it must be a violation. Everyone has been to a game and there is a ref that doesn't think it is allowed to fake a shot or pass and then drive. No question there are times when a player will take a false step back with their push off foot, and that is a travel, but very often if you look at the play on film, there was never a violation. I would love to rant on about this, but what's the point?
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