EHS1998 wrote:I will say that I have seen a marked improvement in refereeing the last couple of weeks in terms of consistency.
Hinsa wrote:I disagree EHS. I don't think they do the best job they can, they do the job they are told to do by Valley City. And I think Valley City tells them to let 'em play as long as no one is gaining an advantage. Predictably, that has led to even more physical play.
Someone's pushing? Man up and push back. Ball is loose on the floor? Time for a football pileup. It used to be a foul to belly flop on top of someone trying to get the ball. Blocked shots? This season I have seen some of the most violent swings to block shots that I have ever seen. If the shot blocker gets a piece of the ball, to he!! with the fact that the shooter got his elbow broken and a concussion from the follow through on the block.
It's the trickle down effect from college. Scoring is down even more in college this year due to physical defense and it continues to affect how the high school game is called.
Call the game the way the rule book reads. Players and coaches will adjust because they won't want to foul out. And guess what - offensive flow will return to the game. Scoring will go back up. And it won't be because a shot clock is forcing teams to shoot more. It will be because natural offensive talent will take over again without the fear of getting mugged every time they shoot or make a foray into the lane.
DaBears54 wrote:During the class B boys district basketball tournament I watched a player while in the act of shooting get undercut by the opposing team. His head hit the floor first. Instead of stopping the game to check on the well being of the player that was curled up in a ball holding his head the referee let the game continue for at least 30 seconds. With all the concussion awareness and information now available shouldn't this game been stopped immediately? How does anyone know if that kid was having a seizure as a result of a head injury or not. The player was eventually helped and did not return to the game as a result of a concussion. As I continued to watch the game I noticed that through out the game there was a lot of incidents of this type of play. The officials if at all rarely called any fouls. At what point does it become “letting them play” to it being unsafe? Who's responsibility is it to keep these young men honest? The referees? The coaches? If I saw any of my kids pull a dirty foul over and over I would most certainly say something to them as their parent. The game is suppose to be fun and the best team with the most skill should win not the one with the biggest kid that can hit the hardest. Last time I looked this was basketball not football. This entire season of basketball and the many games I have attended I have noticed a change in how the game is being officiated. It isn't good and as a parent I am concerned about the safety of everyone playing. Does the NDHSAA wait for someone to get a severe head injury or a broken back/neck before something changes?
leroybla wrote:DaBears54 wrote:During the class B boys district basketball tournament I watched a player while in the act of shooting get undercut by the opposing team. His head hit the floor first. Instead of stopping the game to check on the well being of the player that was curled up in a ball holding his head the referee let the game continue for at least 30 seconds. With all the concussion awareness and information now available shouldn't this game been stopped immediately? How does anyone know if that kid was having a seizure as a result of a head injury or not. The player was eventually helped and did not return to the game as a result of a concussion. As I continued to watch the game I noticed that through out the game there was a lot of incidents of this type of play. The officials if at all rarely called any fouls. At what point does it become “letting them play” to it being unsafe? Who's responsibility is it to keep these young men honest? The referees? The coaches? If I saw any of my kids pull a dirty foul over and over I would most certainly say something to them as their parent. The game is suppose to be fun and the best team with the most skill should win not the one with the biggest kid that can hit the hardest. Last time I looked this was basketball not football. This entire season of basketball and the many games I have attended I have noticed a change in how the game is being officiated. It isn't good and as a parent I am concerned about the safety of everyone playing. Does the NDHSAA wait for someone to get a severe head injury or a broken back/neck before something changes?
I question the "undercut" assertion here. To me, it looked more like a "flop gone wrong". I was there, too. Flopping has become much more epidemic in high school basketball than the injuries you write about DaBears54. Flopping is so commonplace in high school basketball now that officials likely "doubt" that an injury has taken place because someone flops on nearly every-other possession. I ask, when will HS basketball adopt anti-flopping fouls to separate serious injuries from plays for sympathy?
EHS1998 wrote:LOL. Maybe, maybe not. I think they do the best job they can.
Flip wrote:EHS1998 wrote:LOL. Maybe, maybe not. I think they do the best job they can.
I think they do the best job they too. I've just come the realization that officiating is poor. I rarely argue with a call, I've just learned to accept that they will make mistakes and I have to deal with it.
Hinsa wrote:I disagree EHS. I don't think they do the best job they can, they do the job they are told to do by Valley City. And I think Valley City tells them to let 'em play as long as no one is gaining an advantage. Predictably, that has led to even more physical play.
Someone's pushing? Man up and push back. Ball is loose on the floor? Time for a football pileup. It used to be a foul to belly flop on top of someone trying to get the ball. Blocked shots? This season I have seen some of the most violent swings to block shots that I have ever seen. If the shot blocker gets a piece of the ball, to he!! with the fact that the shooter got his elbow broken and a concussion from the follow through on the block.
It's the trickle down effect from college. Scoring is down even more in college this year due to physical defense and it continues to affect how the high school game is called.
Call the game the way the rule book reads. Players and coaches will adjust because they won't want to foul out. And guess what - offensive flow will return to the game. Scoring will go back up. And it won't be because a shot clock is forcing teams to shoot more. It will be because natural offensive talent will take over again without the fear of getting mugged every time they shoot or make a foray into the lane.
MNTwinsFan wrote:Hinsa wrote:I disagree EHS. I don't think they do the best job they can, they do the job they are told to do by Valley City. And I think Valley City tells them to let 'em play as long as no one is gaining an advantage. Predictably, that has led to even more physical play.
Someone's pushing? Man up and push back. Ball is loose on the floor? Time for a football pileup. It used to be a foul to belly flop on top of someone trying to get the ball. Blocked shots? This season I have seen some of the most violent swings to block shots that I have ever seen. If the shot blocker gets a piece of the ball, to he!! with the fact that the shooter got his elbow broken and a concussion from the follow through on the block.
It's the trickle down effect from college. Scoring is down even more in college this year due to physical defense and it continues to affect how the high school game is called.
Call the game the way the rule book reads. Players and coaches will adjust because they won't want to foul out. And guess what - offensive flow will return to the game. Scoring will go back up. And it won't be because a shot clock is forcing teams to shoot more. It will be because natural offensive talent will take over again without the fear of getting mugged every time they shoot or make a foray into the lane.
Do you think the inconsistency is because of officials doing college, high school (Boys and Girls) and the games are played and being called differently?
winner-within wrote:Alot of the problem is what is being taught by the Coaches ....its the "get away with what you can era, and we will worry about it later".
Flip wrote:winner-within wrote:Alot of the problem is what is being taught by the Coaches ....its the "get away with what you can era, and we will worry about it later".
This isn't taught. Kids know what they can get away with.
DaBears54 wrote:leroybla wrote:DaBears54 wrote:During the class B boys district basketball tournament I watched a player while in the act of shooting get undercut by the opposing team. His head hit the floor first. Instead of stopping the game to check on the well being of the player that was curled up in a ball holding his head the referee let the game continue for at least 30 seconds. With all the concussion awareness and information now available shouldn't this game been stopped immediately? How does anyone know if that kid was having a seizure as a result of a head injury or not. The player was eventually helped and did not return to the game as a result of a concussion. As I continued to watch the game I noticed that through out the game there was a lot of incidents of this type of play. The officials if at all rarely called any fouls. At what point does it become “letting them play” to it being unsafe? Who's responsibility is it to keep these young men honest? The referees? The coaches? If I saw any of my kids pull a dirty foul over and over I would most certainly say something to them as their parent. The game is suppose to be fun and the best team with the most skill should win not the one with the biggest kid that can hit the hardest. Last time I looked this was basketball not football. This entire season of basketball and the many games I have attended I have noticed a change in how the game is being officiated. It isn't good and as a parent I am concerned about the safety of everyone playing. Does the NDHSAA wait for someone to get a severe head injury or a broken back/neck before something changes?
I question the "undercut" assertion here. To me, it looked more like a "flop gone wrong". I was there, too. Flopping has become much more epidemic in high school basketball than the injuries you write about DaBears54. Flopping is so commonplace in high school basketball now that officials likely "doubt" that an injury has taken place because someone flops on nearly every-other possession. I ask, when will HS basketball adopt anti-flopping fouls to separate serious injuries from plays for sympathy?
I agree that anti-flopping fouls need to be addressed but I don't remember ever seeing a player who was in the act of shooting "flop" as you point out here. At what point does a player gain an advantage to "flop" while shooting? Regardless of what you think happened, what I saw and heard was that young man's head hit the floor first. He didn't roll his ankle and he didn't twist a knee. His head hit the floor before any other part of his body did. Mechanics of injury need to be thought about. I agree if he rolled his ankle let the break away layup or whatever happen. But because his injury was clearly to his head wouldn't common sense prevail here and play stopped to make sure there wasn't more going on with a potential head injury. Concussions are a serious injury and should be addressed immediately.
DaBears54 wrote:During the class B boys district basketball tournament I watched a player while in the act of shooting get undercut by the opposing team. His head hit the floor first. Instead of stopping the game to check on the well being of the player that was curled up in a ball holding his head the referee let the game continue for at least 30 seconds. With all the concussion awareness and information now available shouldn't this game been stopped immediately? How does anyone know if that kid was having a seizure as a result of a head injury or not. The player was eventually helped and did not return to the game as a result of a concussion. As I continued to watch the game I noticed that through out the game there was a lot of incidents of this type of play. The officials if at all rarely called any fouls. At what point does it become “letting them play” to it being unsafe? Who's responsibility is it to keep these young men honest? The referees? The coaches? If I saw any of my kids pull a dirty foul over and over I would most certainly say something to them as their parent. The game is suppose to be fun and the best team with the most skill should win not the one with the biggest kid that can hit the hardest. Last time I looked this was basketball not football. This entire season of basketball and the many games I have attended I have noticed a change in how the game is being officiated. It isn't good and as a parent I am concerned about the safety of everyone playing. Does the NDHSAA wait for someone to get a severe head injury or a broken back/neck before something changes?
MSUBeaverfever wrote:Moved from Region 7 discussion
Clarification---Districts are different the Regionals -- District officials are contracted by the District schools -- Regionals are contracted by the NDHSAA. Each district may have a way that they choose thier specific officials.
I must add that is odd to have a coach choose an official for a specific District Championship game. You have to be talking the coaches choose the district officials for the tourney and the manager takes it from there. So many questions that could be asked -- if that is how they do it. Do coaches do it the night before--As they are shaking hands after the semi's does the coach go over and say "John Doe -- You get to ref championship! "?? We press so we want the guy who lets them play...they press so i want the guy with a quick trigger?? Coach Z yelling at Official B -- Hey thats why I didn't choose you....coach X yelling at Official B Hey thats why I choose you. I respect you Schwab but I have a hard time believing that is how it goes down. Keep it positive!
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