sportsking09 wrote:The state board of higher education has officially decided to end the use of the fighting sioux nickname, unless the university can get permission to a 30 year agreement by october 01, 2009(impossible). it saddens me that it has come to this but i shall still wear my sioux jersey proudly while attending FIGHTING SIOUX hockey games at the ralph from now on.
duke_boy90 wrote:This is very sad indeed. And so the University of North Dakota fighting lizzards era begins!
Coach Rerick wrote:My understanding is that the Sioux portion of the nickname is challenged as much as the Fighting portion. I may be wrong about that. Either way, I can't believe this gets as much attention as it does. This nickname has been in place for less than 80 years, that's roughly 60% of the school's history, and it was really only chosen as an antagonist to the Bison mascot/logo/name. If supporters are so hung up on this name, why aren't they lamenting the almost 50 years of being the Flickertails?? Or, better yet, why does no one complain that the jerseys aren't trimmed in pink, which is more of an official color than either white or black??
That aside, you guys can't be serious about changing your support for a school based on the name of the team. UND is UND whether they are called the Fighting Sioux, the Flickertails, or the Mighty Octopi. You might be frustrated because the name is new, but the coaches, players, personnel, etc. are all still the same. Dickinson State, GF Central, Wahpeton, and Devils Lake have all gone through big name changes in the recent past, and they are still well supported, or, if you prefer, look at the number of schools that have changed names because of co-ops. Heck, even UND itself has been through this before - anyone think there is a 90 year old out there who still doesn't cheer for the Sioux because they are supposed to be the Flickertails forever?
UND won't become a lesser school because of a name change. They'll sell new merchandise with a new name on it, some of you won't buy it to prove a point, and they'll keep on being the same school they've always been. I really have a hard time believing that people's entire support of these programs is based on their name. I love VCSU, and I'm Viking Pride through and through, but if someone with more authority than I have decides that "Viking" is offensive and my school will now be the VCSU Whatevers, I'm still going to show up at games, sing the fight song, and support the school.
For the record, I'm neither for or against the name change. To me, it's just a name. I just need to see good football in a good venue.
For the record (part two), I don't think UND is really looking at the Mighty Octopi as a nickname. I thought I'd better clear that up for some of the slower posters on this site.
classB4ever wrote:Coach Rerick, can you explain why the "Fighting Irish" should not have to change their name? There are two parts to their name, "Fighting" which is part of the NCAA ruling and "Irish" which is part of the NCAA ruling. The rulings include a part of your name which promotes violence and a part of your name regarding ethnicity. Is it because a majority of people want to keep it? Even if some Irish don't? Notre Dame was never even included in the original list, if my memory serves me correct. Why is there a difference?
AC-DC wrote:A terrible shame in-deed. Any bets on UND becoming just another second-rate school? My kids are even considering college at Minnesota! Not much difference between a Gopher and a Flickertail any way, except maybe pride and tradition. ND apparently has neither.
Coach Rerick wrote:classB4ever wrote:Coach Rerick, can you explain why the "Fighting Irish" should not have to change their name? There are two parts to their name, "Fighting" which is part of the NCAA ruling and "Irish" which is part of the NCAA ruling. The rulings include a part of your name which promotes violence and a part of your name regarding ethnicity. Is it because a majority of people want to keep it? Even if some Irish don't? Notre Dame was never even included in the original list, if my memory serves me correct. Why is there a difference?
I wish I knew the answer to that. If I had to take a guess, I would say you're correct. It would be quite a bit tougher for the Irish as an organization to band together some leadership and challenge the nickname. Using the Sioux as an example, the tribal council was able to make their statement and their challenge on behalf of their people. I'm not sure where that kind of a challenge would come from with the Irish ethnicity...from their government, I suppose, if anything. I really don't know. I suppose the same question could be asked about the Fighting Scots.
If the Irish or Scottish people were to band together to challenge the names, I'd be interested in knowing how the final decision would be made. In the case of the Sioux, Illini, and Seminoles, it's been pretty clear-cut based on the tribal council. Since the Irish and Scottish people are governed through the United Kingdom, it would make for an interesting (and probably complicated) argument.
bisonslayer wrote:Coach Rerick wrote:classB4ever wrote:Coach Rerick, can you explain why the "Fighting Irish" should not have to change their name? There are two parts to their name, "Fighting" which is part of the NCAA ruling and "Irish" which is part of the NCAA ruling. The rulings include a part of your name which promotes violence and a part of your name regarding ethnicity. Is it because a majority of people want to keep it? Even if some Irish don't? Notre Dame was never even included in the original list, if my memory serves me correct. Why is there a difference?
I wish I knew the answer to that. If I had to take a guess, I would say you're correct. It would be quite a bit tougher for the Irish as an organization to band together some leadership and challenge the nickname. Using the Sioux as an example, the tribal council was able to make their statement and their challenge on behalf of their people. I'm not sure where that kind of a challenge would come from with the Irish ethnicity...from their government, I suppose, if anything. I really don't know. I suppose the same question could be asked about the Fighting Scots.
If the Irish or Scottish people were to band together to challenge the names, I'd be interested in knowing how the final decision would be made. In the case of the Sioux, Illini, and Seminoles, it's been pretty clear-cut based on the tribal council. Since the Irish and Scottish people are governed through the United Kingdom, it would make for an interesting (and probably complicated) argument.
Why is there a difference between the sioux and the irish? Because the sioux culture and native americans had there land and country taken away. The irish did not suffer like the Native Americans, they were put on reservations. Irish that were treated bad in Ireland had the opportunity for better (immigrate to America). Native American's didn't have that choice. Thats why there no opposition to the Fighting Irish. Thats the one argument i am sick of hearing, I am all for the seminoles and Illini arguments, however the Irish argument doesn't have much momentum.
classB4ever wrote:Would still like to here some input from you on my previous question.
bisonslayer wrote:
And one last point, this heres America. Greatest country in the world, get your British Literature out of here. Lol, only joking with you.
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