Team reclassification?

[Flip]

Finally, back to the timing of the meeting. I guess I am not privy to the timing of AD's writing their winter sports schedules, but in the rare cases of a team being granted a move down in divisions, I'm guessing their AD would be willing to work hard to rearrange things, as the chance of this happening would appear to be very isolated. But, again, no idea when these schedules are finalized.

Let's use HCV as an example and say they are allowed in B. They drop all their region games so everyone in that region has to try and find another game. HCV moves into district 4. Now everyone in that district needs to add HCV and drop a non district team from their schedule (assuming they didn't have them on their original schedule). So it affects a lot of teams not just HCV.

[RiverMiner99]

Rico, I agree with you on playing where your enrollment places you. Can you imagine a team getting moved down a division and then winning 2 state titles before having to move back up! If you know you have a team that is still building schedule to help prevent blow outs. I felt bad for some of those Cavalier kids. Their freshman and sophomore years they are on the bench enjoying the state championship game runs. Then their junior year it's their turn to play and they get bumped up a division, not the right way to handle it. This is going to happen to the Thompson girls basketball team if they stick to the current plan. They will have enough success points in 3 years to be bumped up. The girls that are in 7th, 8th, and 9th grade will pay the price for the current high school kids having success. It's just wrong and is only part of the plan because it helped sell the proposal. Hopefully they will get ride of the success points.

[Flying Wallenda]

Rico, I agree with you on playing where your enrollment places you. Can you imagine a team getting moved down a division and then winning 2 state titles before having to move back up! If you know you have a team that is still building schedule to help prevent blow outs. I felt bad for some of those Cavalier kids. Their freshman and sophomore years they are on the bench enjoying the state championship game runs. Then their junior year it's their turn to play and they get bumped up a division, not the right way to handle it. This is going to happen to the Thompson girls basketball team if they stick to the current plan. They will have enough success points in 3 years to be bumped up. The girls that are in 7th, 8th, and 9th grade will pay the price for the current high school kids having success. It's just wrong and is only part of the plan because it helped sell the proposal. Hopefully they will get ride of the success points.

The plan was created because some schools didn't like where the enrollment placed them. The problems they had have now became someone elses problem. But the schools who now have the problems now should be fine with having the problems because the schools who didn't want the problems put them on them and are now problem free? My head is spinning........if the success factor is done away with without ever being utilized after that was what was voted on to pass the plan?? Yikes......

As for Cavalier, you felt bad for them because they only got to the round of 8 in the playoffs?

[Flip]

I don't think Thompson is in any danger of being bumped up to AA. If success points bump them up they'll appeal and they'll win. They're not going to make a school that is almost a B school by enrollment play AA.

[RiverMiner99]

And losing 42 to 0 in that playoff game, and it wasn't as close as the score. Plus, they had 3 other losses by margins of 25, 29, and 42. Not real competitive for a team that was moved up a division. It was wrong to move them up.

[RiverMiner99]

I don't think Thompson is in any danger of being bumped up to AA. If success points bump them up they'll appeal and they'll win. They're not going to make a school that is almost a B school by enrollment play AA.

Good to hear this, and if you are correct about this then it should not even be in the plan.

[WalkingStick]

I don't think Thompson is in any danger of being bumped up to AA. If success points bump them up they'll appeal and they'll win. They're not going to make a school that is almost a B school by enrollment play AA.

Good to hear this, and if you are correct about this then it should not even be in the plan.

This is the reasoning on why the appeal process is there...In two years they could have the success points to 'move up' but I'm with Flip...I see them winning the appeal.

Kindred boys are in the same situation...they could have enough success points after the next two seasons and be in the appeal mode at the same time

[Flying Wallenda]

And losing 42 to 0 in that playoff game, and it wasn't as close as the score. Plus, they had 3 other losses by margins of 25, 29, and 42. Not real competitive for a team that was moved up a division. It was wrong to move them up.

I would characterize going 6-4 as a very competitive season........

So HCV's girls should be moved up after going 8-56 the last 3 years and having not beaten a current team in their division in over a decade, while Devils Lakes girls went to state 5 of the last 6 years but moved down? If doing what is right or wrong is the debate I'd say that ship sailed with how this entire thing got pulled off.

[UncleRico]

And losing 42 to 0 in that playoff game, and it wasn't as close as the score. Plus, they had 3 other losses by margins of 25, 29, and 42. Not real competitive for a team that was moved up a division. It was wrong to move them up.

I would characterize going 6-4 as a very competitive season........

So HCV's girls should be moved up after going 8-56 the last 3 years and having not beaten a current team in their division in over a decade, while Devils Lakes girls went to state 5 of the last 6 years but moved down? If doing what is right or wrong is the debate I'd say that ship sailed with how this entire thing got pulled off.

I can only speak for myself, but my opinion on the matter doesn't have anything to do with what their record was this year. Cavalier is a Class B/9-man town, period. I have no connection or rooting interest at all to them, but you will not convince me otherwise. Anyway, this is a basketball thread, I'll quit mentioning football teams.

[RiverMiner99]

And losing 42 to 0 in that playoff game, and it wasn't as close as the score. Plus, they had 3 other losses by margins of 25, 29, and 42. Not real competitive for a team that was moved up a division. It was wrong to move them up.

I would characterize going 6-4 as a very competitive season........

So HCV's girls should be moved up after going 8-56 the last 3 years and having not beaten a current team in their division in over a decade, while Devils Lakes girls went to state 5 of the last 6 years but moved down? If doing what is right or wrong is the debate I'd say that ship sailed with how this entire thing got pulled off.

HCV girls should NOT be move up or down. They should schedule down. Moving them down so they can win more games would come at the expense of teams who's enrollments place them in the Class B division. That is not right. They can schedule down to help build the program. I think it sounds like you might be more against the 3 class system, and I can see understand that. My biggest issue with the 3 class system is the moving up and down along with someone thinking that FargoDome would be a great venue for the Class A boys state tournament.

[RiverMiner99]

I don't think Thompson is in any danger of being bumped up to AA. If success points bump them up they'll appeal and they'll win. They're not going to make a school that is almost a B school by enrollment play AA.

Good to hear this, and if you are correct about this then it should not even be in the plan.

This is the reasoning on why the appeal process is there...In two years they could have the success points to 'move up' but I'm with Flip...I see them winning the appeal.

Kindred boys are in the same situation...they could have enough success points after the next two seasons and be in the appeal mode at the same time

Do you think the Kindred boys would win the appeal if it came to that? I like that multiple people on here think that Thompson, if they were to get enough success points to force them up, would be successful in an appeal to stay Class A. I just don't understand the logic behind approving such an appeal. If people are so sure that they would be successful in their appeal, what is the purpose of even having the success points? Should it only apply to teams that went from old Class A to new Class A? Does it only apply to private schools?

[WalkingStick]

I don't think Thompson is in any danger of being bumped up to AA. If success points bump them up they'll appeal and they'll win. They're not going to make a school that is almost a B school by enrollment play AA.

Good to hear this, and if you are correct about this then it should not even be in the plan.

This is the reasoning on why the appeal process is there...In two years they could have the success points to 'move up' but I'm with Flip...I see them winning the appeal.

Kindred boys are in the same situation...they could have enough success points after the next two seasons and be in the appeal mode at the same time

Do you think the Kindred boys would win the appeal if it came to that? I like that multiple people on here think that Thompson, if they were to get enough success points to force them up, would be successful in an appeal to stay Class A. I just don't understand the logic behind approving such an appeal. If people are so sure that they would be successful in their appeal, what is the purpose of even having the success points? Should it only apply to teams that went from old Class A to new Class A? Does it only apply to private schools?

Kindred is in a harder position to know that in 2 years...their enrollment is growing (bedroom community and large district area). Right now their Junior class of boys is loaded with talent...is it right for them to forced up to a higher class after a talented class graduates? I don't think so...which is where I think the appeal process will be looked into if Thompson GBB or Kindred BBB get to that point.

[The Schwab]

I think it would make sense to have something about where you stack up when it comes to enrollment for the success points (if they decide to force teams up based on success). Maybe it should be a criteria where you have to accumulate more success points to move up if you are in the bottom half of enrollment for the class you are in. That might be a solution for not punishing a smaller school that has a very successful two years because of a very, very strong class.

[Flying Wallenda]

And losing 42 to 0 in that playoff game, and it wasn't as close as the score. Plus, they had 3 other losses by margins of 25, 29, and 42. Not real competitive for a team that was moved up a division. It was wrong to move them up.

I would characterize going 6-4 as a very competitive season........

So HCV's girls should be moved up after going 8-56 the last 3 years and having not beaten a current team in their division in over a decade, while Devils Lakes girls went to state 5 of the last 6 years but moved down? If doing what is right or wrong is the debate I'd say that ship sailed with how this entire thing got pulled off.

HCV girls should NOT be move up or down. They should schedule down. Moving them down so they can win more games would come at the expense of teams who's enrollments place them in the Class B division. That is not right. They can schedule down to help build the program. I think it sounds like you might be more against the 3 class system, and I can see understand that. My biggest issue with the 3 class system is the moving up and down along with someone thinking that FargoDome would be a great venue for the Class A boys state tournament.

Not hypothetically against, certainly against partisan politics.
My thoughts are - the schools in ND voted for the plan with the success factor/request down option in the plan. For that to be ignored like its not there is unconstitutional in my mind. Why take audience a couple weeks ago if the decision was already made? Scheduling down is great, but I would imagine HS kids would like to think they could go to their year end tournament and compete - not be destroyed.

Fargodome is a joke for basketball. The SHAC would be perfect. No idea if it was available, etc.......

[Flip]

My thoughts are - the schools in ND voted for the plan with the success factor/request down option in the plan. For that to be ignored like its not there is unconstitutional in my mind.

Didn't the proposal that was voted on have Ryan in the middle class?

[Flying Wallenda]

My thoughts are - the schools in ND voted for the plan with the success factor/request down option in the plan. For that to be ignored like its not there is unconstitutional in my mind.

Didn't the proposal that was voted on have Ryan in the middle class?

No

[TommiesFan]

My thoughts are - the schools in ND voted for the plan with the success factor/request down option in the plan. For that to be ignored like its not there is unconstitutional in my mind.

Didn't the proposal that was voted on have Ryan in the middle class?

No

I believe Ryan was included in the Middle Division when the schools originally sent in their "Letters of Support". I just checked my emails from that time period in late 2022, and everything I am looking at had Ryan in the middle division, at which time included the "multiplier". At that time, their enrollment of 92 was doubled to 184. So, yes, the one the schools "supported" initially had Ryan in the middle division. Original cutoff was 180 on the low end, but included the multipliers. If I remember correctly, NDHSAA took the original proposal and tweaked it, moved the Class B/Class A cutoff to 162.5, eliminated the multipliers, and put in the private school rule in the larger communities (< 100 kids = Class B) to avoid potential lawsuits.

There was a lot of back and forth at that time, so I'm not 100% sure on this, but this is the way I remember it playing out. And, ironically, remember that the original proposed cutoff at the top would have KEPT Devils Lake and Turtle Mountain in Class AA. And, originally, Rugby was in the North EAST region as well...funny how those two items changed...lol...I'm sure it had nothing to do with getting votes...but was done in the best interest of "competitive balance"...ha!

Enjoy the weekend.

[RiverMiner99]

And losing 42 to 0 in that playoff game, and it wasn't as close as the score. Plus, they had 3 other losses by margins of 25, 29, and 42. Not real competitive for a team that was moved up a division. It was wrong to move them up.

I would characterize going 6-4 as a very competitive season........

So HCV's girls should be moved up after going 8-56 the last 3 years and having not beaten a current team in their division in over a decade, while Devils Lakes girls went to state 5 of the last 6 years but moved down? If doing what is right or wrong is the debate I'd say that ship sailed with how this entire thing got pulled off.

HCV girls should NOT be move up or down. They should schedule down. Moving them down so they can win more games would come at the expense of teams who's enrollments place them in the Class B division. That is not right. They can schedule down to help build the program. I think it sounds like you might be more against the 3 class system, and I can see understand that. My biggest issue with the 3 class system is the moving up and down along with someone thinking that FargoDome would be a great venue for the Class A boys state tournament.

Not hypothetically against, certainly against partisan politics.
My thoughts are - the schools in ND voted for the plan with the success factor/request down option in the plan. For that to be ignored like its not there is unconstitutional in my mind. Why take audience a couple weeks ago if the decision was already made? Scheduling down is great, but I would imagine HS kids would like to think they could go to their year end tournament and compete - not be destroyed.

Fargodome is a joke for basketball. The SHAC would be perfect. No idea if it was available, etc.......

If the goal of moving away from the 2 class system was so HS kids will think they could compete in their year end tournament we are going to need at least 10 more divisions! This is every kid needs a ribbon mentality.

SHAC is available. Would love to see them change the Boys State A location.

[packers21]

And losing 42 to 0 in that playoff game, and it wasn't as close as the score. Plus, they had 3 other losses by margins of 25, 29, and 42. Not real competitive for a team that was moved up a division. It was wrong to move them up.

I would characterize going 6-4 as a very competitive season........

So HCV's girls should be moved up after going 8-56 the last 3 years and having not beaten a current team in their division in over a decade, while Devils Lakes girls went to state 5 of the last 6 years but moved down? If doing what is right or wrong is the debate I'd say that ship sailed with how this entire thing got pulled off.

HCV girls should NOT be move up or down. They should schedule down. Moving them down so they can win more games would come at the expense of teams who's enrollments place them in the Class B division. That is not right. They can schedule down to help build the program. I think it sounds like you might be more against the 3 class system, and I can see understand that. My biggest issue with the 3 class system is the moving up and down along with someone thinking that FargoDome would be a great venue for the Class A boys state tournament.

Not hypothetically against, certainly against partisan politics.
My thoughts are - the schools in ND voted for the plan with the success factor/request down option in the plan. For that to be ignored like its not there is unconstitutional in my mind. Why take audience a couple weeks ago if the decision was already made? Scheduling down is great, but I would imagine HS kids would like to think they could go to their year end tournament and compete - not be destroyed.

Fargodome is a joke for basketball. The SHAC would be perfect. No idea if it was available, etc.......

If the goal of moving away from the 2 class system was so HS kids will think they could compete in their year end tournament we are going to need at least 10 more divisions! This is every kid needs a ribbon mentality.

SHAC is available. Would love to see them change the Boys State A location.

Its already been stated on here and from the NDHSAA multiple times. They are playing at the DOME for the first year to see turn-out they get, if its possible after number wise they are going to move it to the SHAC.

I think the biggest problem right now in the 3 class (besides Devils Lake being in the middle) would be the fact the same regions play each other over and over again in the qualifier games. We aren't or wont get the best teams in the state in the state tournament.

[packers21]

And losing 42 to 0 in that playoff game, and it wasn't as close as the score. Plus, they had 3 other losses by margins of 25, 29, and 42. Not real competitive for a team that was moved up a division. It was wrong to move them up.

I would characterize going 6-4 as a very competitive season........

So HCV's girls should be moved up after going 8-56 the last 3 years and having not beaten a current team in their division in over a decade, while Devils Lakes girls went to state 5 of the last 6 years but moved down? If doing what is right or wrong is the debate I'd say that ship sailed with how this entire thing got pulled off.

HCV girls should NOT be move up or down. They should schedule down. Moving them down so they can win more games would come at the expense of teams who's enrollments place them in the Class B division. That is not right. They can schedule down to help build the program. I think it sounds like you might be more against the 3 class system, and I can see understand that. My biggest issue with the 3 class system is the moving up and down along with someone thinking that FargoDome would be a great venue for the Class A boys state tournament.

Not hypothetically against, certainly against partisan politics.
My thoughts are - the schools in ND voted for the plan with the success factor/request down option in the plan. For that to be ignored like its not there is unconstitutional in my mind. Why take audience a couple weeks ago if the decision was already made? Scheduling down is great, but I would imagine HS kids would like to think they could go to their year end tournament and compete - not be destroyed.

Fargodome is a joke for basketball. The SHAC would be perfect. No idea if it was available, etc.......

If the goal of moving away from the 2 class system was so HS kids will think they could compete in their year end tournament we are going to need at least 10 more divisions! This is every kid needs a ribbon mentality.

SHAC is available. Would love to see them change the Boys State A location.

Its already been stated on here and from the NDHSAA multiple times. They are playing at the DOME for the first year to see turn-out they get, if its possible after number wise they are going to move it to the SHAC.

I think the biggest problem right now in the 3 class (besides Devils Lake being in the middle) would be the fact the same regions play each other over and over again in the qualifier games. We aren't or wont get the best teams in the state in the state tournament.

[Flying Wallenda]

And losing 42 to 0 in that playoff game, and it wasn't as close as the score. Plus, they had 3 other losses by margins of 25, 29, and 42. Not real competitive for a team that was moved up a division. It was wrong to move them up.

I would characterize going 6-4 as a very competitive season........

So HCV's girls should be moved up after going 8-56 the last 3 years and having not beaten a current team in their division in over a decade, while Devils Lakes girls went to state 5 of the last 6 years but moved down? If doing what is right or wrong is the debate I'd say that ship sailed with how this entire thing got pulled off.

HCV girls should NOT be move up or down. They should schedule down. Moving them down so they can win more games would come at the expense of teams who's enrollments place them in the Class B division. That is not right. They can schedule down to help build the program. I think it sounds like you might be more against the 3 class system, and I can see understand that. My biggest issue with the 3 class system is the moving up and down along with someone thinking that FargoDome would be a great venue for the Class A boys state tournament.

Not hypothetically against, certainly against partisan politics.
My thoughts are - the schools in ND voted for the plan with the success factor/request down option in the plan. For that to be ignored like its not there is unconstitutional in my mind. Why take audience a couple weeks ago if the decision was already made? Scheduling down is great, but I would imagine HS kids would like to think they could go to their year end tournament and compete - not be destroyed.

Fargodome is a joke for basketball. The SHAC would be perfect. No idea if it was available, etc.......

If the goal of moving away from the 2 class system was so HS kids will think they could compete in their year end tournament we are going to need at least 10 more divisions! This is every kid needs a ribbon mentality.

SHAC is available. Would love to see them change the Boys State A location.

Two goals stated by the powers that be were "competitive balance and more kids getting to experience the state tournament atmosphere".

So yes, you are correct, we are most certainly trying to get more kids ribbons, as directed by the NDHSAA board of directors. Should the programs who lost the opportunity to compete in the true sense of the word (HCV's girls have been the one most bantered about, but I think Carrington's boys certainly fit the bill) not desire the same thing that was afforded to the former class A teams (DL/Wahp/VC/WC/Turtle MT) who have most benefited by going to 3 classe?

[RiverMiner99]

You are correct they should. But no matter where the line is drawn someone will be on the bottom. Moving from 2 classes to 3 did not solve the problem it just moved it to different schools.

[RiverMiner99]

Does anyone actually believe they need more than 5,500 seats for the Boys Class A? It's being played the same weekend as the Class B. Even if someone did think the SHAC is not big enough, what would be so bad about selling the place out the first year of this tournament. Seems like it's the easy way for the NDHSAA and not doing what is in the best interest of the kids.

[BasketballMind]

Attendance at these tournaments is going to be interesting to keep track of. The pricing was set too high by the state and I think a lot of casual attendees are going to stream from home.

[WalkingStick]

Does anyone actually believe they need more than 5,500 seats for the Boys Class A? It's being played the same weekend as the Class B. Even if someone did think the SHAC is not big enough, what would be so bad about selling the place out the first year of this tournament. Seems like it's the easy way for the NDHSAA and not doing what is in the best interest of the kids.

If you've been around long enough...you already know that the NDHSAA will do whatever to make $$; I'm not sure the 'best' interest of the student-athletes is always in their best interest.