2023/2024 Season Discussion

[GOPACKGO!!!]

CC is still very talented and has the experience and talent to make a run this year. They seem to be missing the intangibles of Sam and Owen on this year's team. Sam was a calming effect and a tremendous leader and even though Owen didn't necessarily show up on the nightly stats when it came to scoring, his ability to be physical and defend seems to be one of the things that is missing on this year's team - one of those glue/key role players that help make a good team, great. With that said, watch out, they can beat anyone on any given night. Should be interesting how it plays out in the play-in game this year. Valley City has some nice shooters but don't know if they have enough inside game to defend/rebound against CC and Kindred. I think only one team comes out of R1 this year to represent at State - Kindred. Theirs to lose. They seem to go through some stretches where they turn the ball over but their athleticism is off the chart - Core is still very young but they are fun to watch.

I don't see CC returning to State this year, tough Region got tougher with the three class system. Thinking their record is who they are this season.

Kindred was on fire in that game, think CC kid was frustrated with the dunks and score when he was taken out of the game. Go from State Champs to being rolled by 30+ there has to be some emotions.

[maddog1971]

CC is still very talented and has the experience and talent to make a run this year. They seem to be missing the intangibles of Sam and Owen on this year's team. Sam was a calming effect and a tremendous leader and even though Owen didn't necessarily show up on the nightly stats when it came to scoring, his ability to be physical and defend seems to be one of the things that is missing on this year's team - one of those glue/key role players that help make a good team, great. With that said, watch out, they can beat anyone on any given night. Should be interesting how it plays out in the play-in game this year. Valley City has some nice shooters but don't know if they have enough inside game to defend/rebound against CC and Kindred. I think only one team comes out of R1 this year to represent at State - Kindred. Theirs to lose. They seem to go through some stretches where they turn the ball over but their athleticism is off the chart - Core is still very young but they are fun to watch.

After watching Central Cass and Kindred last night... Central Cass is missing something They have kids that can play at a high level but they just are not. They even had a kid push a coach away last night. I understand Kindred was on fire on dunking on them but they really need to find something in the next game if they want a trip to the State for a chance for back to back.
https://x.com/DaksHoops/status/1760859196659020057?s=20

When did this push occur?

The sequences occurred under 1 minute to play in 1st Q (Kindred was already well in control); player was very touchy and shoving Sunram on two straight possessions...got in an officials face after the foul was called the 2nd time and preceded to push an assistant coach away from him on the bench as they subbed him out.

Not that it matters but he was also pulling on Sunram shorts down.... I get it him being angry because Kindred as dunking all over them and with out a couple fouls on the way up they would have had a few more. Good news for CC is baseball season is coming up and they will be really good again.

[5-time state chump]

Looking at comparable scores can often times be misleading without having watched the games, but I'd like to hear from anyone who maybe watched both of these games to hear their opinion:

HCV 42 - Kindred 53
HCV 41 - Devils Lake 83!

Almost like DL belongs in a different Class with their 500 students.

A. They don't have 500
B. Are you wanting a 10-class system, so everyone can play teams "their own size"?

[5-time state chump]

The 3-Class system was never about small school participation or competitive balance. At least not the plan they proposed.

Figured everyone wanted 3 classes and now half of those people complain about the 3 classes.

I'm not a fan of the shadiness that went about to shift things around from first proposal to final product but this state needed 3 classes; the downfall is that it still hasn't fixed the participation numbers in small schools...lots of B schools struggle to even field a full JV and there are still some drastic blowouts in all levels...I was told that these two areas would improve and make things better. Yup I know, give it some time, but I don't see numbers changing that much (at least on the girls side).

This plan was constructed to get DL/VC/Wahp/Watford City playing smaller schools than them. Mission accomplished.

So you're another person that wants a 10-class system? LOL. You're not much of a thinker I take it? More of a whiner.

Where should DL/VC/Watford be? What class?

[Flying Wallenda]

The 3-Class system was never about small school participation or competitive balance. At least not the plan they proposed.

Figured everyone wanted 3 classes and now half of those people complain about the 3 classes.

I'm not a fan of the shadiness that went about to shift things around from first proposal to final product but this state needed 3 classes; the downfall is that it still hasn't fixed the participation numbers in small schools...lots of B schools struggle to even field a full JV and there are still some drastic blowouts in all levels...I was told that these two areas would improve and make things better. Yup I know, give it some time, but I don't see numbers changing that much (at least on the girls side).

This plan was constructed to get DL/VC/Wahp/Watford City playing smaller schools than them. Mission accomplished.

So you're another person that wants a 10-class system? LOL. You're not much of a thinker I take it? More of a whiner.

Where should DL/VC/Watford be? What class?

Awesome response.

[The Schwab]

Looking at comparable scores can often times be misleading without having watched the games, but I'd like to hear from anyone who maybe watched both of these games to hear their opinion:

HCV 42 - Kindred 53
HCV 41 - Devils Lake 83!

Almost like DL belongs in a different Class with their 500 students.

A. They don't have 500
B. Are you wanting a 10-class system, so everyone can play teams "their own size"?

Devils Lake has 539 students in grades 9-12 per NDDPI.

[The Schwab]

The 3-Class system was never about small school participation or competitive balance. At least not the plan they proposed.

Figured everyone wanted 3 classes and now half of those people complain about the 3 classes.

I'm not a fan of the shadiness that went about to shift things around from first proposal to final product but this state needed 3 classes; the downfall is that it still hasn't fixed the participation numbers in small schools...lots of B schools struggle to even field a full JV and there are still some drastic blowouts in all levels...I was told that these two areas would improve and make things better. Yup I know, give it some time, but I don't see numbers changing that much (at least on the girls side).

This plan was constructed to get DL/VC/Wahp/Watford City playing smaller schools than them. Mission accomplished.

So you're another person that wants a 10-class system? LOL. You're not much of a thinker I take it? More of a whiner.

Where should DL/VC/Watford be? What class?

Devils Lake- Class AA
Watford City- Class AA
Valley City- Class A
And I'll add: Wahpeton- Class A

[5-time state chump]

The 3-Class system was never about small school participation or competitive balance. At least not the plan they proposed.

Figured everyone wanted 3 classes and now half of those people complain about the 3 classes.

I'm not a fan of the shadiness that went about to shift things around from first proposal to final product but this state needed 3 classes; the downfall is that it still hasn't fixed the participation numbers in small schools...lots of B schools struggle to even field a full JV and there are still some drastic blowouts in all levels...I was told that these two areas would improve and make things better. Yup I know, give it some time, but I don't see numbers changing that much (at least on the girls side).

This plan was constructed to get DL/VC/Wahp/Watford City playing smaller schools than them. Mission accomplished.

So you're another person that wants a 10-class system? LOL. You're not much of a thinker I take it? More of a whiner.

Where should DL/VC/Watford be? What class?

Devils Lake- Class AA
Watford City- Class AA
Valley City- Class A
And I'll add: Wahpeton- Class A

The problem is --- and always will be,is that there are NOT ENOUGH SCHOOLS in ND.

So, to get schools to play schools of "equal size" you're looking at....(this is just off the top of my head to make a point)....

VC, DL, Wahp, WC and I dunno....3 or 4 more schools. Sooo...like, 6 or so in that "division"

Then like....(and I could be off, again making a point) Casselton, Kindred, Grafton, Carrington, Lisbon, Beulah, and like 8 more....

When you have only a handful of schools, and you divide them into 3 classes. Or 2. You're going to have lots of valid "Hey, that's that fair" comments.

So what are we left with? a 6 class system to be "fair"?

Schwab yes, in itself, sure, your response makes sense. But someone from DL would have a VALID argument if they said "wait a minute...we need to be in the same division as Minot -- who as 930 in JUST 11th and 12th grade!!!???" JUST 11th and 12th. 2400 in grades 9-12.

So 539 vs 2400 is fair? So should DL REALLY be Class AA?

Then if they are A....is it fair teams like South Prairie-Max have to play Devil's Lake?

I'm not saying I have the answer. I'm saying THERE ISN'T a logical one.

Group the teams any way any of you want in 3 classes...and there are valid arguments saying "that's ridiculous that ABC has to play XYZ".

[The Schwab]

The 3-Class system was never about small school participation or competitive balance. At least not the plan they proposed.

Figured everyone wanted 3 classes and now half of those people complain about the 3 classes.

I'm not a fan of the shadiness that went about to shift things around from first proposal to final product but this state needed 3 classes; the downfall is that it still hasn't fixed the participation numbers in small schools...lots of B schools struggle to even field a full JV and there are still some drastic blowouts in all levels...I was told that these two areas would improve and make things better. Yup I know, give it some time, but I don't see numbers changing that much (at least on the girls side).

This plan was constructed to get DL/VC/Wahp/Watford City playing smaller schools than them. Mission accomplished.

So you're another person that wants a 10-class system? LOL. You're not much of a thinker I take it? More of a whiner.

Where should DL/VC/Watford be? What class?

Devils Lake- Class AA
Watford City- Class AA
Valley City- Class A
And I'll add: Wahpeton- Class A

The problem is --- and always will be,is that there are NOT ENOUGH SCHOOLS in ND.

So, to get schools to play schools of "equal size" you're looking at....(this is just off the top of my head to make a point)....

VC, DL, Wahp, WC and I dunno....3 or 4 more schools. Sooo...like, 6 or so in that "division"

Then like....(and I could be off, again making a point) Casselton, Kindred, Grafton, Carrington, Lisbon, Beulah, and like 8 more....

When you have only a handful of schools, and you divide them into 3 classes. Or 2. You're going to have lots of valid "Hey, that's that fair" comments.

So what are we left with? a 6 class system to be "fair"?

Schwab yes, in itself, sure, your response makes sense. But someone from DL would have a VALID argument if they said "wait a minute...we need to be in the same division as Minot -- who as 930 in JUST 11th and 12th grade!!!???" JUST 11th and 12th. 2400 in grades 9-12.

So 539 vs 2400 is fair? So should DL REALLY be Class AA?

Then if they are A....is it fair teams like South Prairie-Max have to play Devil's Lake?

I'm not saying I have the answer. I'm saying THERE ISN'T a logical one.

Group the teams any way any of you want in 3 classes...and there are valid arguments saying "that's ridiculous that ABC has to play XYZ".

I agree with you on there will always be outliers. Minot had two sports teams this year and will be opening up Minot North next season so that number will be half. I firmly believe and will always believe that it is easier for a school of 500 to compete with a school of 1500 year after year than it is for a school of 170 to compete with a school of 500 year after year.

In my opinion, DL is far better suited to compete against AA schools than smaller A schools are suited to compete against DL year after year.

[bk1990]

The 3-Class system was never about small school participation or competitive balance. At least not the plan they proposed.

Figured everyone wanted 3 classes and now half of those people complain about the 3 classes.

I'm not a fan of the shadiness that went about to shift things around from first proposal to final product but this state needed 3 classes; the downfall is that it still hasn't fixed the participation numbers in small schools...lots of B schools struggle to even field a full JV and there are still some drastic blowouts in all levels...I was told that these two areas would improve and make things better. Yup I know, give it some time, but I don't see numbers changing that much (at least on the girls side).

This plan was constructed to get DL/VC/Wahp/Watford City playing smaller schools than them. Mission accomplished.

So you're another person that wants a 10-class system? LOL. You're not much of a thinker I take it? More of a whiner.

Where should DL/VC/Watford be? What class?

Devils Lake- Class AA
Watford City- Class AA
Valley City- Class A
And I'll add: Wahpeton- Class A

The problem is --- and always will be,is that there are NOT ENOUGH SCHOOLS in ND.

So, to get schools to play schools of "equal size" you're looking at....(this is just off the top of my head to make a point)....

VC, DL, Wahp, WC and I dunno....3 or 4 more schools. Sooo...like, 6 or so in that "division"

Then like....(and I could be off, again making a point) Casselton, Kindred, Grafton, Carrington, Lisbon, Beulah, and like 8 more....

When you have only a handful of schools, and you divide them into 3 classes. Or 2. You're going to have lots of valid "Hey, that's that fair" comments.

So what are we left with? a 6 class system to be "fair"?

Schwab yes, in itself, sure, your response makes sense. But someone from DL would have a VALID argument if they said "wait a minute...we need to be in the same division as Minot -- who as 930 in JUST 11th and 12th grade!!!???" JUST 11th and 12th. 2400 in grades 9-12.

So 539 vs 2400 is fair? So should DL REALLY be Class AA?

Then if they are A....is it fair teams like South Prairie-Max have to play Devil's Lake?

I'm not saying I have the answer. I'm saying THERE ISN'T a logical one.

Group the teams any way any of you want in 3 classes...and there are valid arguments saying "that's ridiculous that ABC has to play XYZ".

I agree with you on there will always be outliers. Minot had two sports teams this year and will be opening up Minot North next season so that number will be half. I firmly believe and will always believe that it is easier for a school of 500 to compete with a school of 1500 year after year than it is for a school of 170 to compete with a school of 500 year after year.

In my opinion, DL is far better suited to compete against AA schools than smaller A schools are suited to compete against DL year after year.

I agree with your assessment about 500 vs 1500 compared to 150 vs 500, it it is a numbers game and depth. I am really interested to see how next year shakes out. With the success factor put in place, if i understand it, DL now has 4 points? So if the make the semi's next year at a minimum, that is another 2 for total of 6 in A, would they have to bump up to AA? Same for South Prairie, they now have 3, make the championship next year and not win, another 3? Would they not have to bump up? Even Thompson, have 2 points for making semi-finals, what if they win it all next year, 4 points for total of 6 and have to bump up? Class A could lose 3 top teams after next year? It is based on a 3 year cumulative that started in 2021-22 season, take the most recent 3 year, if i understand correctly, would it only take 2 years to move up 3 teams?
Just trying to understand the new rules, as I have said in the past, believe 3 class was needed, but i feel it was rushed and is going to have some issues going forward

[ndlionsfan]

Just wait and hear the uproar if DL wins the boys state tournament, too!

Last year, basically the same girls team won 6 games in AA. They definitely weren't unbeatable in A this season, but they still have a lot of people back and could easily win again next year.

[bk1990]

Just wait and hear the uproar if DL wins the boys state tournament, too!

Last year, basically the same girls team won 6 games in AA. They definitely weren't unbeatable in A this season, but they still have a lot of people back and could easily win again next year.

Would it be the same scenario for DL boys and Kindred? I can see both making it to the championship in state this year and next, that would give them 6 points without winning the title, even split the championship the next two years, and make the semi's the other year they got their 6 points. As I mentioned earlier, if I understand it correctly, you hit 6 points, you get bumped up? So could we also see two of the tops teams is Boys A get moved up after next year also? That is how I understand it, I hope I am wrong, but if it is, to me it seems 6 points is too small of a number. The made the change before the end of the season last year, maybe they need to make a change now since it appears the current setup could potentially cause mass chaos.