Do we need a three class system?

[ndlionsfan]

I have never seen a 3 class plan proposed that would put any of these schools in the middle class. And it's quite a stretch to assume that co-ops would dissolve if a 3 class plan goes through. Once you form a co-op and buy new uniforms and apparel and re-paint the gym, there's no turning back.

Beach plays 9 man football. Stanley has a 9 man enrollment and opts up. These are not big schools.

You also have to take in consideration that enrollment in the western part of the state is increasingly pretty rapidly. Stanley has gone from opting up to 11 man in the last fball plan to one of the larger 11 man teams in the next plan. Maybe in the next few years we'll see some co-ops dissolve out west if the oil boom continues.

[NDplayin]

The idea that a three class system will disolve any co-ops that have previously been formed is a wistful fantasy. It won't happen. It won't even slow down the formation of new co-ops. Even if a co-ops splits, one of the two schools will likely find another school to co-op. And for every co-op that splits, five more will continue to form. And for every rural town "booming" in population, five more are continuing to shrink. This is the enevitability of our depopulating rural areas.

I know that we have fewer teams than we used to have. I know we have fewer schools than we used to have. This is because we have fewer students total students than we used to have.

We all seem to think that Class B was better when we had twice as many teams, but adding a third class isn't going to change any of the above facts. Enrollments will still decline, schools will still co-op, schools will still close.

The teams that would be put in the smallest class of a three class plan are still competing very well. Adding another class when we are rapidly losing teams and will continue to lose teams is not the solution we seek.

[Bisonguy06]

Fair enough. Interesting story about Midway and FL. I was scanning my own memory and couldn't think of a single example of a co-op splitting to form two separate teams. It has happened, but it's extremely rare.

Out west, Glen Ullin-Hebron and Heart River are two co-ops that could have the numbers to split, but I don't see it happening. They've invested too much into their co-op programs. I think the Grant County co-op is here to stay, too.

[ndlionsfan]

Grant Co is a consolidated school with one high school. I agree that almost all co-ops probably will not split if a 3 class plan or any other different plan goes through. But I have also showed that just because a school has 50-75 in HS doesn't mean they can't field a competitive team and have plenty of numbers to field one well into the future. I do think the NDHSAA needs to seriously look at co-ops applications and try to make some other guidelines before accepting them. I know we could easily have 10 more teams right now in class B due to some co-ops I feel are unnecessary. Is it a participation issue or a competitive issue? Either way I think other things can be done instead of co-oping.

[ndlionsfan]

Fair enough. Interesting story about Midway and FL. I was scanning my own memory and couldn't think of a single example of a co-op splitting to form two separate teams. It has happened, but it's extremely rare.

Out west, Glen Ullin-Hebron and Heart River are two co-ops that could have the numbers to split, but I don't see it happening. They've invested too much into their co-op programs. I think the Grant County co-op is here to stay, too.

Sawyer also split from Velva 5-6 years ago to start their own program. I also want to say Edinburg did this in the last 10 years before starting a co-op with Valley. A few private schools have also dropped co-ops to start their own program (Trinity Christian, Our Redeemers, Shiloh Christian).

[old#63]

Anybody out there know much about the legislative changes that have been made to school funding since that lawsuit against the state was settled a couple years ago? I know that basically it lowered the mills that schools are able to levie locally and increased the per pupil payments made at a state level. Essentially, it helped districts that had lots of kids and hurt districts that have lots of land but not many kids. Couple of people I know that are on the local school board have told me that it make things a lot more difficult for smaller schools to remain financially solvent. If that is true we might be just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic in worrying about a 3 class system.

[ndlionsfan]

Anybody out there know much about the legislative changes that have been made to school funding since that lawsuit against the state was settled a couple years ago? I know that basically it lowered the mills that schools are able to levie locally and increased the per pupil payments made at a state level. Essentially, it helped districts that had lots of kids and hurt districts that have lots of land but not many kids. Couple of people I know that are on the local school board have told me that it make things a lot more difficult for smaller schools to remain financially solvent. If that is true we might be just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic in worrying about a 3 class system.

Actually, in both school districts I was recently involved with overall funding increased. Both of these districts have lots of land and total enrollments around 150.

[old#63]

Anybody out there know much about the legislative changes that have been made to school funding since that lawsuit against the state was settled a couple years ago? I know that basically it lowered the mills that schools are able to levie locally and increased the per pupil payments made at a state level. Essentially, it helped districts that had lots of kids and hurt districts that have lots of land but not many kids. Couple of people I know that are on the local school board have told me that it make things a lot more difficult for smaller schools to remain financially solvent. If that is true we might be just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic in worrying about a 3 class system.

Actually, in both school districts I was recently involved with overall funding increased. Both of these districts have lots of land and total enrollments around 150.

K-12 of 150?

[ndlionsfan]

This was posted in the Legends forum sometime last year. And while this was 20 or so years ago, this is a small school having a ton of success against much larger schools (who were a lot larger back then than they are now). I didn't bring this into this topic because I'm a class B sentimentalist, I just did it to show how small schools can build and sustain a program. I think co-ops have hurt participation (which in turn brings down the talent level) and if there is a way to phase some of them out or limit them in the future, I will support that plan.

Chaffee was quite competitive in the mid to late 80's, but for some
reason once we reached the District 2 semi-finals we fell apart. (Back
when if you lost that game meant "Have fun playing for 3rd, you're
done")

1985: 16-7, 2nd in the district to Kindred, lost to Hankinson in the
first round of Region 1

1986: 18-4, 4th in the district.

1987: 15-5, 3rd in the district. We were the #1 seed for the first
time in school history. Lost to Enderlin 47-44 in 2 OT in the semi's.

1988: 13-8, 3rd in the district. Lost in the semi's to Enderlin. We
lost 5 games during the regular season by 1 point and 1 game by 2
points. Over half of the team missed games during the regular season
due to an outbreak of chicken pox.

1989: 14-8, 2nd in the district. We were the #1seed again and lost to
(Guess Who?) Enderlin 47-46, lost to Marion 69-66 in 2 OT in the first
round of Region 1. We played in a tournament over the holidays and beat
both Harvey and Carrington (Both very recently Class A) by more than 20
points and then played Mayville-Portland (Ben Jacobsen) and lost by 6 or
so I think.

You have to take into consideration that during this period, Chaffee
never had more than 25 students in 9-12.

Sheldon-Chaffee had a co-op for boy's basketball 92-94.
1992: 16-9, 2nd in the district; 4th in the region.

1993: 23-2, 1st in the district, 3rd in the region. We lost to Oakes
57-55 in the semi's but beat Lisbon (who were the big bad guys) 54-51
for 3rd.

Though not recognized state wide, I think this team would have given
M-P-C-G from 95-97 a run for their money. The regular season loss
(Hope-Page by 6) was due to 3 starters out for injuries/illness and the
loss to Oakes was ??? shock from playing from behind/over confidence? I
personally think this is one of the better teams in Class B history.

1994: 17-6, 2nd in the district. Lost in the first round of the region
to Richland. The district championship was against Central Cass that
year and they one 67-65. Their point guard made a half court shot at
the end of the 3rd quarter, but the clock didn't start running with 5
seconds to go. Many Sheldon-Chaffee fans feel this robbed them of the
game because it tied it up and really gave Central Cass momentum. The
game seemed bigger than it was because Central Cass was highly ranked in
state, Chaffee was closing and consolidating with them at the end of the
year, and every other team in the district and region was their to
support us.

[ndlionsfan]

Anybody out there know much about the legislative changes that have been made to school funding since that lawsuit against the state was settled a couple years ago? I know that basically it lowered the mills that schools are able to levie locally and increased the per pupil payments made at a state level. Essentially, it helped districts that had lots of kids and hurt districts that have lots of land but not many kids. Couple of people I know that are on the local school board have told me that it make things a lot more difficult for smaller schools to remain financially solvent. If that is true we might be just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic in worrying about a 3 class system.

Actually, in both school districts I was recently involved with overall funding increased. Both of these districts have lots of land and total enrollments around 150.

K-12 of 150?

Yes, K-12 enrollment of 150

[old#63]

Anybody out there know much about the legislative changes that have been made to school funding since that lawsuit against the state was settled a couple years ago? I know that basically it lowered the mills that schools are able to levie locally and increased the per pupil payments made at a state level. Essentially, it helped districts that had lots of kids and hurt districts that have lots of land but not many kids. Couple of people I know that are on the local school board have told me that it make things a lot more difficult for smaller schools to remain financially solvent. If that is true we might be just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic in worrying about a 3 class system.

Actually, in both school districts I was recently involved with overall funding increased. Both of these districts have lots of land and total enrollments around 150.

K-12 of 150?

Yes, K-12 enrollment of 150

Was I informed correctly when I was told that local mills (property tax) dropped to about 2/3 of what it had been and state funding (per pupil payments) will now have to make up for that difference?

[Run4Fun2009]

Enrollment numbers for state 2010

Central Cass - 282
Kenmare - 85

Standing Rock - 253
Kidder County - 105

Thompson - 189
Beach - 184

Carrington - 195
Stanley - 170

[Bisonguy06]

Those numbers are not correct for Beach or Stanley... could those be numbers for grades 7-12?

[Run4Fun2009]

Those numbers are not correct for Beach or Stanley... could those be numbers for grades 7-12?

they are the numbers that I found on the bracket:

http://www.wyndmere.k12.nd.us/Web/html/ ... 009-10.htm

[Bisonguy06]

These numbers aren't right. Think of the way that these schools are aligned for football and now look at your numbers. They can't be right. Carrington plays AA football and Beach is 9 man. Stanley co-ops with Powers Lake for football and they had a 9 man enrollment and chose to opt up.

In the football plan, Beach is listed as having 68 boys and Stanley has 54 in four grades. If you double those numbers to account for the girls, you'd expect Beach around 136 and Stanley around 108. There's no way that they have 184 and 170 combined male/female enrollment.

While we're at it, Standing Rock has 85 boys in the football plan. When you double that, you're still nowhere near 253.

If they were listing 7-12 enrollment for these schools, those numbers look much more reasonable.

[Run4Fun2009]

These numbers aren't right. Think of the way that these schools are aligned for football and now look at your numbers. They can't be right. Carrington plays AA football and Beach is 9 man. Stanley co-ops with Powers Lake for football and they had a 9 man enrollment and chose to opt up.

In the football plan, Beach is listed as having 68 boys and Stanley has 54 in four grades. If you double those numbers to account for the girls, you'd expect Beach around 136 and Stanley around 108. There's no way that they have 184 and 170 combined male/female enrollment.

While we're at it, Standing Rock has 85 boys in the football plan. When you double that, you're still nowhere near 253.

If they were listing 7-12 enrollment for these schools, those numbers look much more reasonable.

I'm was just stating what I found on the state tourney bracket

[old#63]

Starting fall enrollment numbers for 2010 on the DPI web page were listed as:

Central Cass 279
Kenmare 85

Standing Rock ?
Kidder Co. 139

Thompson 131
Beach 136

Carrington 197
Stanley 114

These are for grades 9-12. I don't know if any of these schools have coop agreements with neighboring districts or not.

[Bisonguy06]

There we go. Run4Fun, no problem, not your fault, I just wanted to get the right info out there.

[ndlionsfan]

These numbers aren't right. Think of the way that these schools are aligned for football and now look at your numbers. They can't be right. Carrington plays AA football and Beach is 9 man. Stanley co-ops with Powers Lake for football and they had a 9 man enrollment and chose to opt up.

In the football plan, Beach is listed as having 68 boys and Stanley has 54 in four grades. If you double those numbers to account for the girls, you'd expect Beach around 136 and Stanley around 108. There's no way that they have 184 and 170 combined male/female enrollment.

While we're at it, Standing Rock has 85 boys in the football plan. When you double that, you're still nowhere near 253.

If they were listing 7-12 enrollment for these schools, those numbers look much more reasonable.

Standing Rock's male enrollment only count 60% for the fball plan, though. Also, in the next fball plan Stanley's make enrollment 7-10 is all the way up to 79 so there obviously has been a lot of growth in that school over the past two years. I'm guessing the info for the brackets Run4Fun used came from the NDHSAA member directory and for some reason it is off in a lot of cases. Since the schools have been inputting the info over the internet, I've noticed that some give a 7-12 enrollment number but it shows as 9-12 in the directory and vice versa.

[Bisonguy06]

Beach Bucs, state champs

[Indy5]

Beach Bucs, state champs

And next year will be Central Cass. They had a 5'11'' freshman guard who was decent and a pretty good sophmore guard. Plus the Kraft girl wasn't I senior I don't think. I was extremely impressed with her.

[Bisonguy06]

Beach returns Dietz and four of their top six.

[Indy5]

Beach returns Dietz and four of their top six.

I still think it will be Central Cass. I think there's a good chance we could see a rematch if bracketing allows. If not, the team that wins the early round game will be the eventual state champ I think.

[Bisonguy06]

It could come down to bracketing. Carrington and Standing Rock return almost everyone, too.

[Indy5]

It could come down to bracketing. Carrington and Standing Rock return almost everyone, too.

Does Carrington return Thompson? I felt she was most of their team. Also, Long was Standing Rock's whole team. This weekend was the first time i have saw her play. Did she just have a bad shooting tournament? I wasn't all that impressed. She pretty much just scored from the foul line. She didn't make hardly any jumpers and missed some layups she should make if she is so great.