Should Junior High Players be Moved to Varsity?

[nd_fanarchist]

I understand the fact that smaller B schools need students to fill the roster to have a team, as I could name two schools from District 8. I don't have a problem moving up athletes if they are ready and mature for the next level. Recently I attended a couple different games where there was a freshmen starter on varsity playing on a junior varsity tournament and also a 7th grade starter on varsity who is listed on the seven grade roster for an upcoming tournament. I give two thumbs down to those schools who played their varsity starter(s) and the 6th man at that recent tournament just so they could take first in the tournament. The last time I checked, the junior varsity is for those athletes who do not play a lot of varsity, and a junior varsity tournament should not be used as "practice" for your inexperienced freshmen starters or other underclassmen. Your integrity spoke loud and clear at that tournament.

[vballfan06]

I don't know where or who you are talking about...BUT before you start throwing out digs at someone's integrity...

1. Do you know the coach's reasoning?
2. A player has only so many quarters they may play per season
3. Sometimes a younger player must start out of necessity...and needs all the playing time they may get in order to mature to that level.

I think your integrity speaks lound and clear when you can come on ND preps and bash a coach anonymously. Takes guts bud.

[luvmy3gbb1wr]

sorry vb06, i agree with nd to some degree.......case in point........oakes at the jv tourney in ellendale brought their entire team, varsity starters included and played them. at a jv tourney, you play your varsity starters......a lot.....geez i know enderlin does this all the time, too. i dont agree, if you are a varsity starter, you should not be playing jv. i know midkota has 7th graders on varsity and they play but i'm not sure what the coach does for jv or jh. in the many decades that i've coached and played, only a couple of teams could actually use the excuse of quarters or numbers........and as for learning, well, others need to learn too, not just the young player starting.

i am curious though, i see that a team in my area plays an 8th grade boy on jv ( and they've got enough players without him)......once you play in a high school game, you can't go back to jh games can you? did NDHSAA change that rule as well

[Run4Fun2009]

sorry vb06, i agree with nd to some degree.......case in point........oakes at the jv tourney in ellendale brought their entire team, varsity starters included and played them. at a jv tourney, you play your varsity starters......a lot.....geez i know enderlin does this all the time, too. i dont agree, if you are a varsity starter, you should not be playing jv. i know midkota has 7th graders on varsity and they play but i'm not sure what the coach does for jv or jh. in the many decades that i've coached and played, only a couple of teams could actually use the excuse of quarters or numbers........and as for learning, well, others need to learn too, not just the young player starting.

i am curious though, i see that a team in my area plays an 8th grade boy on jv ( and they've got enough players without him)......once you play in a high school game, you can't go back to jh games can you? did NDHSAA change that rule as well

They can still go down but you can only do that in really small schools. Rule applies in ND and MN, I believe, its just determined by enrollment size.

[nd_fanarchist]

If you are on varsity, then you have earned that spot for a reason - your hard work, talent, ect. I don't believe in pulling players back down to win a tournament when your school has enough for varsity and junior varsity. Yes, it is ultimately up to the coach, but when there is enough players, please keep it fair for the other athletes whom the junior varsity tournament is really meant for.

[Sportsrube]

sorry vb06, i agree with nd to some degree.......case in point........oakes at the jv tourney in ellendale brought their entire team, varsity starters included and played them. at a jv tourney, you play your varsity starters......a lot.....geez i know enderlin does this all the time, too. i dont agree, if you are a varsity starter, you should not be playing jv. i know midkota has 7th graders on varsity and they play but i'm not sure what the coach does for jv or jh. in the many decades that i've coached and played, only a couple of teams could actually use the excuse of quarters or numbers........and as for learning, well, others need to learn too, not just the young player starting.

i am curious though, i see that a team in my area plays an 8th grade boy on jv ( and they've got enough players without him)......once you play in a high school game, you can't go back to jh games can you? did NDHSAA change that rule as well

They can still go down but you can only do that in really small schools. Rule applies in ND and MN, I believe, its just determined by enrollment size.

It is based on enrollment and only the really small schools can do it legally as far as moving back down to JH.
There is also a rule dealing with how many weeks a season can run which affects players being moved up to JV after their JH seasons are done.
As far as JV goes, I always believed that the purpose of JV was to prepare a player for Varsity. I would never have played any of my top 7 Varisty players in a JV tournament and I would never play a SR on JV. I believe it is a matter of integrity on the coach's part, the AD's part & the Administrators part.

[rock83]

who cares about a junior varsity tournament. And usually those that do have no success at the varsity level. The Junior varsity is to help the kids improve individually. If a coach wants to play a younger starter a couple of quarters jv its up to them they know whats better for their program. And if they win a jv tourney who cares.

If you are on varsity, then you have earned that spot for a reason - your hard work, talent, ect. I don't believe in pulling players back down to win a tournament when your school has enough for varsity and junior varsity. Yes, it is ultimately up to the coach, but when there is enough players, please keep it fair for the other athletes whom the junior varsity tournament is really meant for.

[luvmy3gbb1wr]

okay whats the enrollment level now......in my day, not that long ago, thank you , it was 50 in the high school.......yep, i know about the weeks rule as well, it especially affects gbb with 8th graders, most are done b4 the end of january if they played in the jh season.

[ndlionsfan]

There is also a rule of how many quarters a player can play in a given season. I believe for the regular season it is 19x6=114? Not completely sure. Also, I'm not sure, but I think there are rules about playing varsity players in a strictly JV game or tourney (when the varsity doesn't play). I think if so many varsity players play a certain amount of quarters it has to count as a varsity game? Like I said, I'm not completely sure. I remember when I was in high school our coach was really careful about who played in a JV tourney due to number of quarters for the season and possible counting as a varsity game, meaning a forfeit for another varsity game later in the season.

[COACHWEST]

okay whats the enrollment level now......in my day, not that long ago, thank you , it was 50 in the high school.......yep, i know about the weeks rule as well, it especially affects gbb with 8th graders, most are done b4 the end of january if they played in the jh season.

If you have less than 50 in JH enrollment, then JH players can go back and forth. (I think!)

[ClassBEast]

okay whats the enrollment level now......in my day, not that long ago, thank you , it was 50 in the high school.......yep, i know about the weeks rule as well, it especially affects gbb with 8th graders, most are done b4 the end of january if they played in the jh season.

If you have less than 50 in JH enrollment, then JH players can go back and forth. (I think!)

Yes, girls in Central Cass weren't able to do that. They had to finish their JH season before they could move to C-squad and now they will be done after tonight because they have maxed out their season.

The rule is different for track... I believe you can go back and forth no matter what the school size.

[vballfan06]

If Oakes did that for the JV tournament...I'd have a tough time believing those kids won't be over quarters for the season.
Junior varsity is to get your kids ready for varsity competition. It is not JH anymore, you no longer play every kid the same number of minutes.
As for a coaching decision: If I had a freshman or soph that started on the varsity but our team is 6-6...we're not all that great. Unless this kid is my best ball player, it is likely that they would benefit from playing minutes on the JV.
I have watched a few teams this winter play a varsity starter on the JV. So far, I have not seen a single one of those kids dominate the JV game. This tells me the coach is making the right decision and getting that kid more minutes on the court---in the hopes that it pays off in the postseason.

[coachh]

I believe Oakes has 2 seniors on the roster, neither dressed at that JV tourney. Most of the year, 4 juniors have started for Oakes. Those 4 players played 1 quarter in each of the 3 jv tournament games. Unless those junior starters have played a substantial amount of JV during the regular season, there should be little danger of them exceeding the quarter limitations for the season just by playing at that tournament.

Agree or disagree, it is certainly easier to make those decisions from the comfort or anonymity of forums such as this.

[T reporter]

What is the maximum number of quarters a player can play in a season? Are they totaled JH,JV and Varsity? Does this include District, Regional and State Tournaments or just regular season games and tournaments?
IMO if you are a Sr. or Jr. starter you don't need to be playing in a JV tournament. If you are a non starter Sr. you don't need to be playing in a JV tournament, bring on the JH girls the Sr. have had their chance.

[toddjames]

What is the maximum number of quarters a player can play in a season? Are they totaled JH,JV and Varsity? Does this include District, Regional and State Tournaments or just regular season games and tournaments?
IMO if you are a Sr. or Jr. starter you don't need to be playing in a JV tournament. If you are a non starter Sr. you don't need to be playing in a JV tournament, bring on the JH girls the Sr. have had their chance.

What if you have a senior kid on the team that isn't really good enough to get any major playing time on varsity or be a tremendous threat even at the JV level, but they try hard and work hard in practice and never complain? What if JV is the only place the kid will get a chance to play? Are they deserving, does it make it acceptable?

[T reporter]

I'm not saying this in a mean way. But the real world is just a few months away for these Seniors.

[The Schwab]

I feel the only way a J.H. player should be moved up to varsity (besides the fact of simply needing numbers) is if the other players on the J.H. team would not get better. What I mean by this is if the player in question would be a 1 person team. I do not agree with playing your varsity starters in a strictly JV tournament, that totally defeats the purpose of the JV which is to improve those players not seeing varsity time, to one day be able to contribute to a varsity squad. Just my two cents.

[Indy5]

I get moving them out of JH but why not play them at C squad or JV?

[coachh]

The quarter limitation is 114 for the season. See this link for more details:

http://www.ndhsaa.org/athletics/basketball_girls/girls_basketball_regulations

[T reporter]

The quarter limitation is 114 for the season. See this link for more details:

http://www.ndhsaa.org/athletics/basketball_girls/girls_basketball_regulations

Thanks coachh

[Flip]

I feel the only way a J.H. player should be moved up to varsity (besides the fact of simply needing numbers) is if the other players on the J.H. team would not get better. What I mean by this is if the player in question would be a 1 person team. I do not agree with playing your varsity starters in a strictly JV tournament, that totally defeats the purpose of the JV which is to improve those players not seeing varsity time, to one day be able to contribute to a varsity squad. Just my two cents.

I disagree. If you have a player who is ready to contribute they should be allowed to play varsity. Take for example Kelly Roysland and Taylor Hill both were players in MN. Roysland was all-conference 6 times and Hill lead the state in scoring as an 8th grader. Imagine now if you were their coach and you couldn't have them on your team because your school had a rule that JH kids couldn't play varsity. The HS where I work has rule that for a JH player to be on varsity they must receive significant playing time.

[scramblinfran]

This is really a difficult thing to put a RULE in place for. Too often we want to have a hard and fast rule for everything. Take any real decision making out of the equation. There are dozens of factors that need to be looked at before moving a player up. Physically - for girls at this age - I don't think it is that big of a concern. Mentally can they handle it. Socially can they fit in with the older kids and will their classmates accept it. Any decent coach would talk with the player and her parents. Visit with their team and classmates. Take a good look at where they think this player will fit in and then make their decision. If you keep a line of communication open, it really isn't such a big deal.

[bigpoppakdog]

wonder if nadine schmidt, lynnette mund, rachelle otto, tonya fisher, the waldahls, just to name a few were "limited" due to their age versus their ability? I don't know what it is with bb, but it seems as though this is the only sport where it is not ok to move players up?

[bigpoppakdog]

Here are my reasons why it is ok to move jh players up(especially girls)

1. Girls at 14 can be faster, lighter etc... than they "might" be at 17 or 18. Thus the "physicallity" topic is null and void.

2. Just like any sport, it is a competition, not an acitivity to "participate" in or "to get in shape" in. I've heard that thrown out by more than one mommy. "...plus its good exercise" statement drives me insane. The bottom line no matter which way you want to slice it, sports are about competition. You keep score, you have tournaments to see who is the best. Along the way you learn valuable skills for life. But bottom line every time you open the paper to see the scores.

Here are my reasons why it is not ok to move jh players up.

1. Alienates that girl. If you bring just one up, could lead to future issues unless the girls is the calibar of player like mentioned above. Sometimes its a no brainer, some times its debateable if the girl is ready.

2. Re-establishing teamwork later. If you bring a girl or girls up, you ultimately have to re-establish that chemistry and teamwork later.

3. Mommies complaining. I guess we all know there are those mommies out their that think all you need to do is go out for the sport and thats good enough. You are then entitled to playing time.

I think reason #1 is the only legit reason on not bringing a girl up. How was my synopsis? Did I miss anything or am I way off base?

[EHS1998]

If you are on varsity, then you have earned that spot for a reason - your hard work, talent, ect.

Not necessarily, you may be pulled up because of a lack of talent in the higher grades in your school. 1 team in District 5 (Boys) has played a JH player the last 2 years, due in large part because there just isnt a ton of talent above him. If this kid were in any other program in the District, he would be playing JH. It is very situational. Additionally, I just cant see any coach pulling down varsity players with the sole intent of winning a JV tournament. Because no one places a ton of emphasis on winning JV games, they are for development, if not, we would have a JV state tournament. As others have said, if a coach is playing a varsity player on JV, it has to do with getting kids more experience and playing time.