All state without Eli Benz!!!????

[bigpoppakdog]

Ok, anybody that's been on his site has known for quite a while my thoughts on the KC team. Some have used the word "stalker" in describing it(that was funny, I'll give them that). I thought they were the real deal and had 2 outstanding players in Sand and Benz. I am shocked that Eli Benz was not on the all state team. She proved her value during the state tournament for everyone to see and am at a loss for words on why she wasn't a 2nd teamer? I am not from KC and have no ties to KC, just a fan who observes bb like everyone else. Am I way out of line here with my feeling that this was an injustice decision to leave her off the all state team? Does she need to shoot the ball 25 times a game in order to get recognized? Maybe there are others who got left off the all-state team that I am not aware of, but from reading the list and seeing some players whose teams did not come close to making it to state, and whose stats were OK I just don't get it. Eli Benz was the best player in the tournament and one of the best all-around players I have seen in girls bb ever. To leave her off the all-state team to me, leaves me shaking my head why? There are some names from the east that I have no idea on other than watching them in the state tournament and are high quality players. There are some names from the west that I have seen and would not pick above Benz. But, she does have a state title, and an MVP plaque at home. Nobody else can say that in girls this year. But she got a raw deal on this one.

[Bob Holiday]

I'm with you, It's absolutely incredible that she wasn't mentioned at all for the all-state team. I'd really like to know the time frame that they use and the criteria for selecting the members. I've watched several Kidder County games against some of the toughest competition any team has faced and Benz has been almost spectacular. I'm at a loss for words.

[Baller]

I am a surprised that she was not on the team, but who do you leave off? I only the east and those players were spot on. I dont know enough about the west to comment on those players.

Didn't they list an honorable mention in the past? When did that stop?

[bigpoppakdog]

You know, looking at the stats of the players listed, there were some very impressive stats. My guess, would be Eli's ppg was not in the 19 ppg like some of the others, but man talk about a player who could play defense, rebound, shoot with both hands, and play point guard while actually being a post I would argue there was no player on the list(knife probably from what i've heard) that had could play all 5 spots on the floor as good as Benz.

I'm glad there are some others with my same view, because I didn't think I was going crazy with my beliefs on the talent level of this player. Just thought it was obvious she had the game that put her in that upper class. Somebody said earlier to not look at stats(arguing that Long shouldn't be a first team player), and in this case I could see that argument. But, Benz's stats have to still be comparable to all the all-state players listed, with her ppg being the only one that I think would be lower because she was a rebounding machine and her field goal % must be the best or at least one of the best in the state. She avg. about the same points in state as long did shooting about half the amount of shots. I'm not trying to pick on long, as I lobbied for her being a first team player earlier.

[bigpoppakdog]

somebody pointed out on the bismarcktribune website, that KC the state champs only get 1 player on the all-state team while these other teams who KC beat had more than 1 all-state player. Kidder County lost 1 game this year and played in a region/area that was loaded with talent this year, so you had to earn all of your points and not get the "duck" games on the schedule like many of the teams from other regions did. I wonder how many games Benz lost out on the opportunity to "pad stats" because they were blowing everybody out? I better stop ranting, I think I made my point, and from what I've been reading I won't be the only one upset with this snub. Wonder if the boy's tournament mvp Keuber will not be an all-state selection? Pretty much be the same thing, Benz's performance was as impressive and made a statement on how could she is. Be pretty sad if both MVP's of the tournament will be left off the all-state list by players who played for teams that barely got out of districts.

[bigpoppakdog]

I am a surprised that she was not on the team, but who do you leave off? I only the east and those players were spot on. I dont know enough about the west to comment on those players.

Didn't they list an honorable mention in the past? When did that stop?

Looking at the list I probably would argue a couple players from the west if you put on you HAVE to put Benz on. Some of those girls were "one dimensional" players while Benz's ability to go from post to shooting guard, to POINT GUARD(that was the most impressive part of her game in my opinion) puts her in a class by herself. First team all state? I would say YES, but you have to consider some of those tangibles that aren't recorded on a stat sheet. Second team, without a doubt.

State champion team with 1 all-stater on the list is quite unusual when you had teams who could not beat KC with multiple all-state selections is ??????? It's hard to really take someone off the list as they all had some great stats, but do they need to remove someone before putting Benz on? Not sure, it would be nice to know what the guidelines are on how many players etc..... I might take it upon myself to investigate the criteria and post my results.

[rock83]

Benz definately should have been on the all state team. You have media voting on the all state team just by word of mouth mostly. Most of the media hasnt seen the team. It is just suprising that benz didnt make it from the state tourney performance because that is what most of the media goes by. She is all state more so than many on the team. I dont think it should be only those that make it to state. But even if Benz didnt make it to state she was an all stater. But look at the people who vote, they dont go to alot of class b girls games. How many of these people really saw the girl from ray and the girl from new england. Do they really know these are the only two western girls basketball players that deserve to be on the all state team. Yes there are others but they are the only two that didnt make the state tournament. In my experience the kids that make the state tournament and the eastern players get overhyped. But in this case Benz is the exception, she was in the state tournament, and she should have been all state with or without that experience.

Ok, anybody that's been on his site has known for quite a while my thoughts on the KC team. Some have used the word "stalker" in describing it(that was funny, I'll give them that). I thought they were the real deal and had 2 outstanding players in Sand and Benz. I am shocked that Eli Benz was not on the all state team. She proved her value during the state tournament for everyone to see and am at a loss for words on why she wasn't a 2nd teamer? I am not from KC and have no ties to KC, just a fan who observes bb like everyone else. Am I way out of line here with my feeling that this was an injustice decision to leave her off the all state team? Does she need to shoot the ball 25 times a game in order to get recognized? Maybe there are others who got left off the all-state team that I am not aware of, but from reading the list and seeing some players whose teams did not come close to making it to state, and whose stats were OK I just don't get it. Eli Benz was the best player in the tournament and one of the best all-around players I have seen in girls bb ever. To leave her off the all-state team to me, leaves me shaking my head why? There are some names from the east that I have no idea on other than watching them in the state tournament and are high quality players. There are some names from the west that I have seen and would not pick above Benz. But, she does have a state title, and an MVP plaque at home. Nobody else can say that in girls this year. But she got a raw deal on this one.

[baseball]

whats the list of players?

[bigpoppakdog]

Had a lengthy talk with the media from the Bismarck tribune. I appreciate the info they gave me and encouraged them to do a story on what they told me. This is the rundown of all-state selections.

Each region's media is responsible for lobbying for their players. They all meet during the state tournament(not at the end, but during) and make their arguments to each other. The vote is then taken, sometimes online due to a region not sending their media to the tournament. That's right, some votes are done online by media who are not at the meeting. So how they know who to vote for is a question. They have the top 5 make first team and then the following 10 for second team(more if there are ties). The debate now lies in the process. Is having the media as the only source reliable? Should online votes be counted? Should they vote after the state tournament or before? The reports are some of the media people involved are kicking themselves after the tournament because they hadn't seen Benz play, and after the tournament was over they realized how good she was. When voting for all-state teams, especially class B, there will always be somebody left off that you could argue should be one, but I cannot help being very disgusted with this situation of having one of the best girls bb players in class b not getting all-state recognition due to media outlets who don't research news outside their region. It was nice to know the process on how things are decided. I think the process makes sense, but there needs to be more communication between these people who decide things before the day of the vote. With technology the way it is today, there should be no excuse on why news media's don't have access to great players and their stats and game footage at the snap of a finger.

I would encourage fans to contact the Bismarck tribune as well as the Jamestown Sun who represented that region to express your concerns.

[tingly]

The media shouldn't be doing it. They're creating their own news which is a professional conflict of interest. Since it's not an NDHSAA or coach assn. all-state team, I don't know if it makes much difference who's on or off it. It doesn't carry any more weight with me than a northdakotapreps all-state team.

The media who can't attend could participate via telephone.

[ndlionsfan]

I agree tingly, I just found out this year that the media choose the all-state team for bball. I thought it followed the same process as in football, volleyball, and I'm guessing baseball, where the coaches get together to discuss and vote on who is selected to the all-state team. To me, it dimishes the honor of being all-state in basketball because it is really nothing short of a popularity contest. I'll be honest and the first thing I said after I heard the all-state team announced on the radio this morning was "Benz isn't on there?" I was surprised, thinking she had a good shot at being a first team selection. As some other people have said on here, how come NRS and Kenmare have two players each on the all-state team when the state champ doesn't. I am glad to see they recognized some of the top players like Heier and Church, that haven't had the chance to play at state and get the state wide media attention because they play in more remote areas of the state.

[baseball]

just because they werent at the meeting doesnt mean they dont know who they are voting for. are you saying a dickinson vote shouldnt count and a grand forks one should when it comes to the all-state team just because dickinson didnt want to drive 6-7 hours to the meeting? I promise the media knows who they are voting for, and if they dont they get on the phone with someone who does.

[rock83]

That is a big promise! How can they when the bismarck representative when to very few region 5 regular season games. Who would the Bismarck rep got on the phone with? It wasnt many region 5 coaches. so what is the bases of knowledge that they would have to make the picks a few tournament games? I guess if i was a voter and an expert in class b girls basketball I would at least want to go to the state tournament. If it isnt that important you shouldnt be a voter. The best players are not on the team and that is what their goal should be.

just because they werent at the meeting doesnt mean they dont know who they are voting for. are you saying a dickinson vote shouldnt count and a grand forks one should when it comes to the all-state team just because dickinson didnt want to drive 6-7 hours to the meeting? I promise the media knows who they are voting for, and if they dont they get on the phone with someone who does.

[baseball]

theres also news stations...you know, the ones who have tapes of most of the players and games...they can call. also its not like the BT only has one person to cover sports. just because there isnt a big article in the paper doesnt mean someone from the media wasnt there.

[bigpoppakdog]

baseball that is my point. From having a phone conversation with an actual news media involved in the process, he admitted they actually don't know all of the players or have seen all the players. The amount of sports reporters is limited so there isn't as much communication as there should be. One would think they do communicate, but from the phone conversation I had, it sounds like the media DO NOT have the foggiest idea on some of the these players. So if you do not attend the meeting and vote online, this cannot be a good system for choosing all-state players. Look at what happened. I bet EVERY media person who was involved this year who did not vote for Eli Benz is embarassed by what has happened. I told the media person I talked to, that he should do a story about the process and clarify some things for the average fan like myself. He indicated that there were media people who had NO CLUE about Cameran Malzer and his ability and accomplishments. Now, if our Mr. Basketball winner isn't known by all media involved in the voting process that tells you something. It doesn't seem like that this would happen baseball, but from the conversation I had, it DOES happen. Not trying to argue against you, but that's what I was told. Like I said earlier, contact the bismarck tribune and the Jamestown Sun(that was the media representing that region) and express your concerns. Maybe there is a better system. I honestly would take the opinion of a lot of people, baseball as one for example, on this site. There were a lot of names brought up and good arguments brought up from people in those regions. I don't think there is anybody on the list that isn't deserving of the accomplishments. But there is one that should be on the list no questions asked-Eli Benz.

[rock83]

First of all if a media person came to cover a game there would be at least a small write up in the paper. Not to often will you see a media person at a class b girls game just for enjoyment. I have never seen one. As far as tapes on most of the players, they come to a few minutes, tape a few highlights and leave. Never seen a reporter at a class b girls regular season game for very long. Just the facts. At least in the Bismarck area. Those of you that think that the media is very knowledgable about class b girls basketball your not being very realistic. Lets be honest, whether you work for the media or not, the media didnt do a very good job covering and learning about class b girls basketball this year especially in the bismarck area.

theres also news stations...you know, the ones who have tapes of most of the players and games...they can call. also its not like the BT only has one person to cover sports. just because there isnt a big article in the paper doesnt mean someone from the media wasnt there.

[q]

As long as the Bismarck Tribune is leaking information, maybe they should tell us the boys all-state team.

[bigpoppakdog]

they're not leaking information they are answering questions that should be answered. I called them up and asked some questions on the process on selecting all-state team and spoke to two people and got honest answers. We didn't discuss whose stats were better or who was better or why etc...just discussed how the process is done and if they also felt Benz got a raw deal. I suggest others do the same thing. Interesting how the selection process has a lot of grey in it. Seems to me there is a better way to select all-state teams. There won't be a perfect way, but has to be a more thorough method out there.

[formercoach]

I think the media should wait until after the state tournaments to choose and all-state team. That way they can look at the whole body of work and somebody like Eli Benz does not get the shaft again. Does the NCAA selection committee choose the top 65 teams before the conference tournaments are done. No! The same thing could be said about choosing the all-state team. They wait two weeks to announce them anyway. Get it right so this does not happen again!

[bigpoppakdog]

In addition to that, I think the media should get a list before the season starts with players who they should look out for and then actually attend a game or two to watch some of these players so they have an idea who they are voting on come the end of the season. Maybe the news media shouldn't be the only people involved in the selection process. There should be several people involved from each region and each of them should be required to observe an adjacent region or two also. This way a more thorough coverage of the area's can be achieved and have better discussions in the end because more people can say "I saw her play and I agree...etc.." instead of trying to be convinced by someone else in a meeting at the end of the year. Plus you would probably get a more thorough discussion in each region also...example Rock83 would lobby for Long to be 2nd team, whereas I might still lobby for her as a 1st teamer....then the neighboring region observers can come in and say what they feel because they saw her play also. I am not done with this issue yet. I am pursuing a letter to the media questioning the process and probably cite Eli Benz in my letter. If anybody else would like to see the letter when I am done and want to attach their name on it, I would be greatful. This way the media might take these things more seriously if they are aware how many people are upset with the situation. If so, you can just private message me and I'll correspond with you that way. Again, its fun to debate issues on here and sometimes a guy can argue just to argue(which I tend to do time to time ), but this issue is something that is not funny and needs to be addressed to prevent this from happening to somebody else down the road. If you feel the same way, let me know. Thanks.

[baseball]

I think the media should wait until after the state tournaments to choose and all-state team. That way they can look at the whole body of work and somebody like Eli Benz does not get the shaft again. Does the NCAA selection committee choose the top 65 teams before the conference tournaments are done. No! The same thing could be said about choosing the all-state team. They wait two weeks to announce them anyway. Get it right so this does not happen again!

So you think they should wait until after the tounrament to get the automatic bids right? thats why the NCAA committee does it after the tournaments. if they wait until after the tournament it will turn into a "what have you done for me lately" team.

also, bigpoppa, i understand how you feel Benz got a raw deal, and a lot of people agree with you. but i have to say...in my opinion..you are going way over board and over reacting greatly on this subject. maybe the phone call was ok, if you were just wondering how the process is done. but a letter to the media saying a player for the shaft?!? really?? there were a handful of games that she didnt show up at. by that i mean she was in foul trouble, didnt score, didnt rebound. she lacked the consistancy and maybe thats what left her off the team. the last 2 games at state showed the player she can be when at her best, but the first game showed what else she can do. she did not play well at all in the first game. and they do get a list of players to watch out for if they have access to the hoopster. its in the back of the book...10-15 players to watch and then an honorable mention list.

theres a reason they dont announce the Mr. BBall award at the tournaments, but only on TV. I believe it was Boschee who got boo'ed when they announced he won. even if he was a class a player at a class b tournament, whoever boo'ed when he was announced the winner was clueless to the state of basketball and how he was easily the best player in the state regardless of class.

[GirlsClassBfan]

Be careful, baseball - Benz has an overall talent level that supercedes that of most on the 2nd team. I can safely bet that every one of those girls on that all state list has had a bad game here and there and one made first team strictly by one fantastic game. Give me a break! I thought you had a better grasp on the game than what you are saying. She should have been on that list and you know it.

[baseball]

Be careful, baseball - Benz has an overall talent level that supercedes that of most on the 2nd team. I can safely bet that every one of those girls on that all state list has had a bad game here and there and one made first team strictly by one fantastic game. Give me a break! I thought you had a better grasp on the game than what you are saying. She should have been on that list and you know it.

i would vote her on yes...but my point was who are you going to take off? a person would never be suprised if Benz would go off like she did in the semi's...but at the same rate, there would be no suprise at all if she played like the first round where she either couldnt make a shot, or was in foul trouble the whole game. sometimes you had to wonder going into games just which player would show up. you shouldnt have to wonder that with all-state players.

a person doesnt average over 21 points a game with just one good game....21-6-3 is a pretty good line, thats what she averaged for the year. i would hardly call her a one game wonder.

like i said, i would vote her on and i am suprised she was left off atleast 2nd team. but does it call for a person to call the newspaper to ask why? and writting a letter saying how she got the shaft? no.

[GirlsClassBfan]

I wasn't saying a letter had to go anywhere, but again, I have seen several of the girls on the All state team that did not have a good game, and in fact, more than once. Evidently, you haven't been watching them very closely. You better check out Benz's fg% first - remember, she did average 15 pts a game , 8 reb and 3 blocks - She didn't even play a full game in a lot of their games because they were usually up by 20. So, don't even go there - you know better.

[GirlsClassBfan]

Another thing, baseball, while I think of it - I do think Long is a good player. She did only have avg games on Fri and Sat of the State B. what was her season schedule like, how many minutes did she play? You can look at it both ways so don't twist things around too much - you might get your shorts in a knot.