Doing away with all tournament teams Who is picking?

[9manfootballmom]

This could be a topic for all team sports but I'll put it here because this is where I saw it happen.

In region 5, there are a few people who are selected to sit in the stands and watch all 3 games and decide who are the best players from each team during that tournament. SO...

TEams that play one game and lose in the quarterfinals are only seen once and maybe didn't have a great game, as they lost.

Then: at the end of the tourney there are 4 teams that have played three games and these people in the seats have had a chance to watch and choose the best 10-12 players from all 8 teams. Of course there would probably be one girl from one of the teams that only played one game but was a stand out in that game and most likely deserved the honor of being chosen as an all tournament player...HOWEVER

In region 5 the second place team only had 1 girl chosen. The three from the first place team were rightfully deserving so that isn't even a factor. The third place team had two as did the fourth place team. I feel that these were good choices.

Center had one girl and Sheridan County had one. (each team lost in quarters)

Then two of the other four teams that lost in the first round..Went like this ... New Salem ... no one was chosen, Standing Rock had two girls named to the all tournament team...( No disrespect for the Rock I haven't followed them and know they have some good athletes ) Now maybe these two girls had superior seasons but this was for the tournament only...and they only played one game...one of the two chosen for the all tournament team had a technical foul for swearing or arguing with the ref...and those technical foul free throws put Washburn back in the game to win...so...what are the criteria?

What are the criteria for the ones that are in the stands choosing?

Should there even be all tournament teams? Is there a better way to chose them? Is each region in the same boat about these all tournament teams?

What do you think?

[vballfan06]

Yeah---I would have to agree with you. I, personally, am not a fan of all tournament teams at all. At the same time, I think Region 5 has a history of doing things like this:
I remember a couple of years ago in volleyball (not basketball---but I do have a point), Christy Gabrielson did not win the district or region player of the year. The girl that did win---good ball play don't get me wrong, she created alot of match-up problems---but Christy was just a phenomenal player. I'm not sure that region will ever have a ball player like that again--she could do it all, and she CARRIED her team to the state tournament (3 times).
Point being, alot of coaches either don't do that great a job evaluating---or need to personal issues aside when selecting these teams.

[rep]

region 3 didn't do an all-tourney team.

[luvmy3gbb1wr]

but they did do an all district team, and politics reigns in those as well as all tourney teams

[9manfootballmom]

It is all political...I guess that is a life lesson and don't let the MOM in my name fool ya...this has nothing to do with my own kids

it happened again last night in District 10 boys. I just would like to know who picks the selection committee and if that committee is briefed on what to look for, (offense and defense) do they go to all the games and do they really realize that there is a difference between all district and all tourney? Thanks for letting me know that Region 3 has done away with the all tournament team. I would be interested to know if anyone knows the process for choosing the committee, etc as stated above.

[bigpoppakdog]

Yeah---I would have to agree with you. I, personally, am not a fan of all tournament teams at all. At the same time, I think Region 5 has a history of doing things like this:
I remember a couple of years ago in volleyball (not basketball---but I do have a point), Christy Gabrielson did not win the district or region player of the year. The girl that did win---good ball play don't get me wrong, she created alot of match-up problems---but Christy was just a phenomenal player. I'm not sure that region will ever have a ball player like that again--she could do it all, and she CARRIED her team to the state tournament (3 times).
Point being, alot of coaches either don't do that great a job evaluating---or need to personal issues aside when selecting these teams.

New Salem's player was better than Flasher's. New Salem's player is a step above athletically than anyone in the region...she would have made a phenom basketball player also had she chose to play....there were a lot of girls that didn't play vb from the 3 time region bb champions team....so the new salem girl easily "carried" them as much as or even more than gabrielson did because she didn't have as good of supporting cast.

[bigpoppakdog]

This could be a topic for all team sports but I'll put it here because this is where I saw it happen.

In region 5, there are a few people who are selected to sit in the stands and watch all 3 games and decide who are the best players from each team during that tournament. SO...

TEams that play one game and lose in the quarterfinals are only seen once and maybe didn't have a great game, as they lost.

Then: at the end of the tourney there are 4 teams that have played three games and these people in the seats have had a chance to watch and choose the best 10-12 players from all 8 teams. Of course there would probably be one girl from one of the teams that only played one game but was a stand out in that game and most likely deserved the honor of being chosen as an all tournament player...HOWEVER

In region 5 the second place team only had 1 girl chosen. The three from the first place team were rightfully deserving so that isn't even a factor. The third place team had two as did the fourth place team. I feel that these were good choices.

Center had one girl and Sheridan County had one. (each team lost in quarters)

Then two of the other four teams that lost in the first round..Went like this ... New Salem ... no one was chosen, Standing Rock had two girls named to the all tournament team...( No disrespect for the Rock I haven't followed them and know they have some good athletes ) Now maybe these two girls had superior seasons but this was for the tournament only...and they only played one game...one of the two chosen for the all tournament team had a technical foul for swearing or arguing with the ref...and those technical foul free throws put Washburn back in the game to win...so...what are the criteria?

What are the criteria for the ones that are in the stands choosing?

Should there even be all tournament teams? Is there a better way to chose them? Is each region in the same boat about these all tournament teams?

What do you think?

Instead of posting blogs that involve questions and then what "you" think is the right way...call an athletic director or talk to a coach....or become a coach..a lot of topics you discuss are typical "fan" type topics...if would get involved in sports besides being a "mom" you would have all of your questions answered...and maybe after walking in the shoes of people directly involved in sports you would have a better understanding of things....there is nothing wrong with your topics, or stating your points of view, but I for one, feel that you are a "typical sports mom" that would really benefit sitting on the sidelines with a clipboard in hand and having hundreds of eye's on "you" and talking about "you" at the local pub or business after the game is over discussing "you" and what "you" could do better etc.....it's not easy being judged on the performance of others...and when selecting tournament teams there is behind the scenes talk...Standing Rock had two STUD athletes...only 9th graders...would make a great argument that they are the two best in the region behind BEARSTAIL...Players selected are the best for their school...and there are stipulations on how many from 1st can be picked down to the 7th place....plus there things that aren't measured in the stat book that people take in account...team leadership being one...

[9manfootballmom]

You know what? I was under the impression that on this website there were people who might have insight on what is happening in other regions, districts, etc. Obviously, there are some who just answer the questions and there are others who just want to stir the pot.

I coached varsity volleyball for 11 years and that coaching was the first in an area where i had to start the program. ( I am po'd right now so my grammar might be a bit rusty) I was there for 5 years and took a 1 -21 team the first year to regionals the next four years. I did it with respect for my girls and my program yet I took a lot of grief along the way from parents and a lot of people who knew absolutely nothing about the sport. All tournament teams were chosen by coaches who met in a hurry between matches ...Now I know they do it differently with "unbiased' people who come to watch. I have been in that spot, too.

I came to a new area and took a non competitive team to regionals 3 of the 4 years i was the head coach. i even was chosen district coach of the year which was a nice end to the season, although not one parent agreed with it because their darling daughter didnt' make the district team. So don't tell me I haven't been in the ranks and haven;t had people watching me from the stands. THe only reason I got out of it was because I changed jobs so don't go that =route either. I love the girls and I love the sport and i resent your judgement of me because I am a mom first and the mom persona is that we don't know anything except what we think is good for our little johnny.

I also know that I can talk to ADs...I do...I know many of them in my area and they know how I feel. I am not a baffoon who just wants my kid to get awards. Besides, my kids work hard and are model athletes and students.

This forum has some great people who have been helpful thank you to them.

[ndlionsfan]

I really don't think all tourney teams are political. Most of the time the committee is made up of radio people, newspaper reporters, whoever runs the clock, the official book, the tourney manager, etc. People who are at EVERY single game and can give an unbiased opinion as possible. Also, I don't think many regions have an all tourney team just due to the fact that only 4 teams actually get to play 3 games and the other 4 only get one.

[9manfootballmom]

I really don't think all tourney teams are political. Most of the time the committee is made up of radio people, newspaper reporters, whoever runs the clock, the official book, the tourney manager, etc. People who are at EVERY single game and can give an unbiased opinion as possible. Also, I don't think many regions have an all tourney team just due to the fact that only 4 teams actually get to play 3 games and the other 4 only get one.

That is the kind of information I am looking for. THanks WHen I was on a VB committee There were four of us from four of the towns and we all had some VB experience but hadn't been coaching for awhile. I don't know what they used for the district criteria in district 10 this year. I know I can ask and i probably will. Just looking for what is happening in other districts and regions. thanks again

[bigpoppakdog]

You know what? I was under the impression that on this website there were people who might have insight on what is happening in other regions, districts, etc. Obviously, there are some who just answer the questions and there are others who just want to stir the pot.

I coached varsity volleyball for 11 years and that coaching was the first in an area where i had to start the program. ( I am po'd right now so my grammar might be a bit rusty) I was there for 5 years and took a 1 -21 team the first year to regionals the next four years. I did it with respect for my girls and my program yet I took a lot of grief along the way from parents and a lot of people who knew absolutely nothing about the sport. All tournament teams were chosen by coaches who met in a hurry between matches ...Now I know they do it differently with "unbiased' people who come to watch. I have been in that spot, too.

I came to a new area and took a non competitive team to regionals 3 of the 4 years i was the head coach. i even was chosen district coach of the year which was a nice end to the season, although not one parent agreed with it because their darling daughter didnt' make the district team. So don't tell me I haven't been in the ranks and haven;t had people watching me from the stands. THe only reason I got out of it was because I changed jobs so don't go that =route either. I love the girls and I love the sport and i resent your judgement of me because I am a mom first and the mom persona is that we don't know anything except what we think is good for our little johnny.

I also know that I can talk to ADs...I do...I know many of them in my area and they know how I feel. I am not a baffoon who just wants my kid to get awards. Besides, my kids work hard and are model athletes and students.

This forum has some great people who have been helpful thank you to them.

why do you ask questions that you should know the answers to with your coaching experience? Based on what you have said, you should know all the answers to the topics which you have posted...your comment on the "darling daughter" is hypocritcal to the the comments you have previously posted....I'm really confused on why you have posted the topics you have yet have had extensive coaching experience. The kids who post topics here don't need to see an experienced coach stirring up the pot...you should be using your experience to answer/provide insight into topics..not post topics and then make it appear you do not have a clue on what is going on, when you have been a part of the coaching profession for a substantial period of time.
Again, I want to restate that your comments/topics have been good....but to find out you have been a coach with accolades you shouldn't be posting topics asking others what the answers are...you should be answering questions/topics....

[Baller]

Some things have changed quite a bit in the last couple of years. Especially volleyball and with the change of seasons, things are changed from when she was coaching. I appreciate that she asks rather than assuming that things are still the same.

[9manfootballmom]

You know what? I was under the impression that on this website there were people who might have insight on what is happening in other regions, districts, etc. Obviously, there are some who just answer the questions and there are others who just want to stir the pot.

I coached varsity volleyball for 11 years and that coaching was the first in an area where i had to start the program. ( I am po'd right now so my grammar might be a bit rusty) I was there for 5 years and took a 1 -21 team the first year to regionals the next four years. I did it with respect for my girls and my program yet I took a lot of grief along the way from parents and a lot of people who knew absolutely nothing about the sport. All tournament teams were chosen by coaches who met in a hurry between matches ...Now I know they do it differently with "unbiased' people who come to watch. I have been in that spot, too.

I came to a new area and took a non competitive team to regionals 3 of the 4 years i was the head coach. i even was chosen district coach of the year which was a nice end to the season, although not one parent agreed with it because their darling daughter didnt' make the district team. So don't tell me I haven't been in the ranks and haven;t had people watching me from the stands. THe only reason I got out of it was because I changed jobs so don't go that =route either. I love the girls and I love the sport and i resent your judgement of me because I am a mom first and the mom persona is that we don't know anything except what we think is good for our little johnny.

I also know that I can talk to ADs...I do...I know many of them in my area and they know how I feel. I am not a baffoon who just wants my kid to get awards. Besides, my kids work hard and are model athletes and students.

This forum has some great people who have been helpful thank you to them.

why do you ask questions that you should know the answers to with your coaching experience? Based on what you have said, you should know all the answers to the topics which you have posted...your comment on the "darling daughter" is hypocritcal to the the comments you have previously posted....I'm really confused on why you have posted the topics you have yet have had extensive coaching experience. The kids who post topics here don't need to see an experienced coach stirring up the pot...you should be using your experience to answer/provide insight into topics..not post topics and then make it appear you do not have a clue on what is going on, when you have been a part of the coaching profession for a substantial period of time.
Again, I want to restate that your comments/topics have been good....but to find out you have been a coach with accolades you shouldn't be posting topics asking others what the answers are...you should be answering questions/topics....

[9manfootballmom]

why do you ask questions that you should know the answers to with your coaching experience? Based on what you have said, you should know all the answers to the topics which you have posted...your comment on the "darling daughter" is hypocritcal to the the comments you have previously posted....I'm really confused on why you have posted the topics you have yet have had extensive coaching experience. The kids who post topics here don't need to see an experienced coach stirring up the pot...you should be using your experience to answer/provide insight into topics..not post topics and then make it appear you do not have a clue on what is going on, when you have been a part of the coaching profession for a substantial period of time.
Again, I want to restate that your comments/topics have been good....but to find out you have been a coach with accolades you shouldn't be posting topics asking others what the answers are...you should be answering questions/topics....

First of all I didn't know that kids are the ones who are submitting the topics. I was under the impression this was forum of all people who love sports in ND. SEcondly, I never claimed to be an expert I was just setting the record straight regarding your slam that I shouldn't just be a mom on the bench waiting for little Johnny to get his participation time. My coaching experience has been in VB and that doesn't restrict me from opinions regarding other coaches, it does, however, restrict my knowledge of what goes on in BB regarding all tournament teams and how they are chosen. I am pretty sure each sport has a different way of choosing just as different regions and districts do things differently.

I don't know what you mean about my "darling daughter" comment being hypocritical. Hypocritical to what? I took a lot of crap for the fact that someone didn't get the award the parent thought they deserved. I am not a parent who thinks her own kid should have gotten an award. I am upset because every team in a district gets an all tournament player except one and i would love to know how that was chosen. It is not about my kid, it is about the way the team is chosen. I think I have made my point.

I guess if this place is only for experts to reply to posts then I had better withdraw my name and move on.

[Hinsa]

Footballmom - you just keep right on posting. Your posts are always thoughtful and your perspective is much appreciated.

Poppadog - you are barking up the wrong tree on this one - pun INTENDED! Footballmom is just asking questions and adding to the discussion. Don't put words in her mouth. If you need clarification from her, just ask. Don't assume you know her position.

I think an apology is in order. You call her a "typical sports mom" and then go on about how she should sit on the bench in the shoes of a coach. Well she HAS COACHED, SHE'S BEEN IN THE SHOES.

The least you could do is apologize for your assumptions. Know who you are talking to before you make statements you are going to have to eat later.

[COACHWEST]

Well stated Hinsa! I enjoy reading all of mom's comments. I had also assumed from previous posts that she was a coach.

mom-- as a coach and athletic director, I am and have been in favor of eliminating all Conference/District/tournament teams. I have a variety of reasons and don't need to get in to it, but this may be a topic where nobody can win!

[bigpoppakdog]

Footballmom - you just keep right on posting. Your posts are always thoughtful and your perspective is much appreciated.

Poppadog - you are barking up the wrong tree on this one - pun INTENDED! Footballmom is just asking questions and adding to the discussion. Don't put words in her mouth. If you need clarification from her, just ask. Don't assume you know her position.

I think an apology is in order. You call her a "typical sports mom" and then go on about how she should sit on the bench in the shoes of a coach. Well she HAS COACHED, SHE'S BEEN IN THE SHOES.

The least you could do is apologize for your assumptions. Know who you are talking to before you make statements you are going to have to eat later.

My point is she has made comments about "ethical issues" and then made a "darling daughter didn't make the all district team." Seems to me that's odd to say we need ethics...question on how players are selected to tournament teams..then to make a comment like that....I understand what she meant by that comment and understand the situation...she has now pointed out that she was a coach and that is good...have I written anything that has made assumptions? Yes, based on her earlier posts you would assume she was a typical sports mom who doesn't understand what its like...go ahead look back at her posts and tell me that that doesn't appear true...she discussed things about coaches running up the score....questioned the panel who selects tournament teams if Standing Rock girls bb players were deserving of all district because of a technical foul....and then turns out she was a coach is NOT something other coaches appreciate...because she should know better or at least know most of the answers to the topics she posted...she originally questions if there should be all tournament teams...are you kidding???? Its statements like that coming from a former coach that doesn't sit well with me...but I guess I don't have the right to state my opinions either????? No, of course I do, I didn't need to write that, but I wanted others to see how lame that type of statement sounds...this is a place to debate...people don't always agree with me I don't with them...that's the fun of this....but her being a former successful(from what she has said) coach, she should know better on being critical of her former peers and question the process of selecting players and specifically pointing out other teams and their players-STANDING ROCK....and then to specifically italicize the word political...making it sound like these girls are not deserving of their recognition...while stating other girls are deserving of the award....if she was just a fan...without the knowledge of coaching it would be different...but to have walked in those shoes, and to see her comments, particularly towards standing rock, and obviously other coaches who she feels run up the score, is not something she should say and then not expect others to call her on it and apologize after it.

[bigpoppakdog]

I do want to restate again...I do think her topics were good topics...just something I wouldn't expect to see from a former coach.

[Baller]

So now coaches can't have an opinion that differs from what others believe?? Coaches can't think that the system is political?? Someone that has been in the system that admits the system is flawed....Something I respect and agree with a great deal.

[9manfootballmom]

Footballmom - you just keep right on posting. Your posts are always thoughtful and your perspective is much appreciated.

Poppadog - you are barking up the wrong tree on this one - pun INTENDED! Footballmom is just asking questions and adding to the discussion. Don't put words in her mouth. If you need clarification from her, just ask. Don't assume you know her position.

I think an apology is in order. You call her a "typical sports mom" and then go on about how she should sit on the bench in the shoes of a coach. Well she HAS COACHED, SHE'S BEEN IN THE SHOES.

The least you could do is apologize for your assumptions. Know who you are talking to before you make statements you are going to have to eat later.

My point is she has made comments about "ethical issues" and then made a "darling daughter didn't make the all district team." Seems to me that's odd to say we need ethics...question on how players are selected to tournament teams..then to make a comment like that....I understand what she meant by that comment and understand the situation...she has now pointed out that she was a coach and that is good...have I written anything that has made assumptions? Yes, based on her earlier posts you would assume she was a typical sports mom who doesn't understand what its like...go ahead look back at her posts and tell me that that doesn't appear true...she discussed things about coaches running up the score....questioned the panel who selects tournament teams if Standing Rock girls bb players were deserving of all district because of a technical foul....and then turns out she was a coach is NOT something other coaches appreciate...because she should know better or at least know most of the answers to the topics she posted...she originally questions if there should be all tournament teams...are you kidding???? Its statements like that coming from a former coach that doesn't sit well with me...but I guess I don't have the right to state my opinions either????? No, of course I do, I didn't need to write that, but I wanted others to see how lame that type of statement sounds...this is a place to debate...people don't always agree with me I don't with them...that's the fun of this....but her being a former successful(from what she has said) coach, she should know better on being critical of her former peers and question the process of selecting players and specifically pointing out other teams and their players-STANDING ROCK....and then to specifically italicize the word political...making it sound like these girls are not deserving of their recognition...while stating other girls are deserving of the award....if she was just a fan...without the knowledge of coaching it would be different...but to have walked in those shoes, and to see her comments, particularly towards standing rock, and obviously other coaches who she feels run up the score, is not something she should say and then not expect others to call her on it and apologize after it.

I have spent hours contemplating your comments and wrote this long post and it didn't submit. perhaps it was a sign. I will leave it alone but first All is italicized on that post. You read way into things.

Why is this ethical? If the Darling daughter offended you I am sorry for the sarcasm but I think it help make the point. I didn't use names and I am sure most readers knew what I meant. next What does it matter that I am/was a coach? Is that supposed to be mentioned before you start on this site? Are you a coach? I have no idea...you haven't come out and said you were a coach, just made references to it.

next if you look at my post that used a name it ws in reference to the prior post who asked why TLM didn't beat Sheridan County by as much as they expected. I replied that that coach seems to have backed off on the running of the score business and I left it at that. Many of the posts that followed went on about it and I guess everyone assumed that all the posts were regarding that coach. NOT SO.

I have a strong opinion on players who deserve recognition. Did they bust their butts...did they make good decisions during the game and off the court? It is my opinion that a player who plays one game in a a tournament and created the opening for the other team to win (the opening was a technical foul that involved swearing/etc) is less deserving than a girl that plays three solid games for the second place team in the region. I had to use the example to make my point. If I wouldn't have said a team's name you would have know anyway. I have no disrespect for the ROck, and I stated that in my post. I just really wanted to know how that team was selected...ALL TOURNEY, How was the selection committee chosen? WHat criteria did those people look for? Were they at all the games? THen I asked for opinions regarding the all tournament process and if it is a something that should be continued.

I got a response from REgion 3 who stated they don't even use the All tourney team anymore. THat is interesting to me and thanks to that post.

Now Dog...let's let sleeping dog's lie. No apology is expected or needed. MOM

[bigpoppakdog]

like I said, this is a place to debate..I will be the first to say I do not expect everyone to agree with me...I did take offense to the fact that you were a coach and in a sense, criticizing your own...your topics are good discussion topics...just wished you wouldn't have been a coach that's all...but either way...you can still post topics...regardless of what I think....I'm sure we'll go at it again in future topics....till then have a good one

[bigpoppakdog]

Plus I am home today sick...dang flu thing...so maybe i'm a bit touchy....sorry...

[Hinsa]

Hope you feel better soon, Poppa!

[captain_caveman]

Any form of all district/tournament team is probably going to cause hard feelings, but that is just a hard part of life that isn't always fair. That is something that kids and parents need to learn...life isn't always fair. In my old district the all district team isn't announced until after the regional tournament because some schools have such a parental problem when their kid doesn't make it and that causes team problems for the rest of the season. I think several years ago when we had more kids playing BB there was a bit more political picking for these teams. Now a days, we have a less schools and less kids playing so picking the top 10 or 12 is pretty cut and dried most years. Some years it is hard to find enough kids to fulfill the standards that we think they should have to be named to the teams. I have been in on VB all district picking meetings where some coaches have very low standards as to who they think is good enough to be nominated for the all district teams while other coaches have very high standards. Also I don't think the VB all district team needs to be 16+ players. There should be some limits. I think our districts coaches are all very fair with their voting, its just parents that have the problems with it sometimes.

[luvmy3gbb1wr]

true, life isn't fair, but distict nominations in many cases aren't even close..its not always parents crying "my baby didn't get an award"....our district, coach nominates two from their team, other coaches vote; this year a girl got left off who was averaging double figures points and almost double figures rebs....yet the coach didn't nominate her b/c it would have meant leaving another girl off, who didn't have as good a season but was a name in the school district; coach didn't want to cause hard feelings with the family.....and coach will say so if asked. politics all the way........