3 class system-gaining momentum

[bigpoppakdog]

the first attempt of passing the 3 class system now that it is a NDHSAA item was a closer vote than the past...will having 3 classes lower quality of basketball or equal playing field and thus having more competitive games? I propose this idea for response...have a 3 class system for tournaments, but allow teams to schedule games against whomever they want...this way you could still have a small town schools who have a strong team play the larger schools...and when it comes to tournament time then the larger schools...especially the ones located in large cities....play other schools in the same boat....I don't see the problem with having a format like this for tournaments..

Class AA
Bismarck(high, century)-Mandan-Minot high-Fargo(all of them)-Grand Forks-Dickinson high, Williston, Jamestown

Class A
Trinity, St.Mary's, Shiloh, Fargo Oak, Our redeemers, Williston Trinity Christian, Minot Ryan, Devils Lake

Class B
Everyone else....would return some of the lusture to class b that has been lost the last decade...

Now the amount of games for Class A tournament time would be less for tournaments...that is a downfall..and it would be the same every year-basically like Class A already is....so I don't see why that wouldn't work....and keep in mind I believe allowing teams to schedule who they want would allow for less travel and to be able to play a better schedule.....there are some teams right now that cannot compete on the class A level...but if you move them down to class b...will most likely dominate in that area due to a higher amount of athletes in the pool....i don't think I am off base by my plan, but I'm interested to hear other viewpoints...

[Hawks]

What a lot of people fail to realize is that when you look at some of the co-ops they have more student enrollment in the co-op than some of the schools you have as class A. I know trinity takes alot of heat for being big school but I saw that their enrollment is 136 grades 9-12. I know there are some co-ops in their region that have more students in 9-12 if you look at both schools together. (belfield-South Heart, glen Ullin-Hebron) not to mention beulah and Hazen are both bigger. I am not defending any system just don't think it will ever pass.

[g.f.basketball]

The 3 class system would really hurt the great tradition that is the class "b" state tournament. I think it is great seeing a small class "b" school take on a giant class "b" school like a Bottineau, Beulah, or a Grafton. A three class system would make every state tournement as boring as the State "A" can be. I think that too much emphasis is sometimes placed on making everyone feel like a winner. In life, there are winners and losers and the NDHSAA should realize that. It just amazes me that in a state with dwindling numbers of schools and students that we are considering adding more class divisions.

As for the previous post listing class "b" schools in bigger towns, some of those schools would not have enough students to qualify for the intermediate level. If they went to a 16-team format, I believe the teams would be Beulah, Bottineau, Devils Lake, Valley City, Rugby, Hazen, Minot Ryan, Carrington, Central Cass, Bowman, Oak Grove, Watford City, Saint Mary's, Belcourt, New Town, and Grafton, based on enrollment. Devils Lake, Saint Mary's, and Belcourt would be the small "a" schools to drop down (Shanley would protest it). Bottineau, Rugby, Minot Ryan, beulah and Grafton are former class "A" schools with very large "b" enrollments.

[hoop_fan1]

Here is enrollment, grades 9-12 (maybe not exact for 07-08 school year) of the teams that have been or are currently ranked in Class B:

Bottineau- 296
Grafton- 304
Bowman- 156
Minn-Leed 119
Kenmare 112
St-Dawson 100
Newtown 205
Turt-Mercer 72
No. Cass 160
F-C-T 37+ (Campbell-Tintah data was not available, someone fill me in if they can)
Hankinson 103
F-L-Park R. 195
Dakota Pra. 115
Hillsboro 138
(if any of these #'s are way off, please fix them)
As you can see, there are many small schools in the rankings. Yes, Bottineau & Grafton are at the top this year, but since grafton moved from A to B, this is their 1st time I believe they've even been close to top 10. The bottom line, I think, is you need coaches who are willing to put in the time to "build" a program. In order to do that, you do need some numbers, & I believe that has happened in Dakota Prairie, they've consistently had a good program, Hatton & now Hatton-Northwood have a good program.
I bet if you ask coach Forsberg in Bottineau, he would fill you in on the time he has put in to keep that program at the level they're at. It also takes parents & players commitment. 3 classes would water things down IMO.

[bigpoppakdog]

What a lot of people fail to realize is that when you look at some of the co-ops they have more student enrollment in the co-op than some of the schools you have as class A. I know trinity takes alot of heat for being big school but I saw that their enrollment is 136 grades 9-12. I know there are some co-ops in their region that have more students in 9-12 if you look at both schools together. (belfield-South Heart, glen Ullin-Hebron) not to mention beulah and Hazen are both bigger. I am not defending any system just don't think it will ever pass.

interesting screen name....if you take the population of Bismarck and compare it to all the class b towns surrounding bismarck you still don't get the same "amount" of athletes to possibly suit up for you....the enrollment is in complete control of the private school....public school has no control of enrollment...private schools(regardless of what their handbook says) take who they want..and how many they want...they do not take special needs students...talk about getting away with discrimination.....why...because they can..they are private....so it continues to drive me insane when private schools use the word "enrollment" in comparing themselves against glen ullin-hebron..and towns with no more than 800 total people....instead of using the word "population" which should be used...Let's take Mr.G from Trinity, Mr. Amundson from Mandan and open a private school in Bismarck or whatever city you want and have that school take only 50 total students..do you think they could win against all of the teams in North Dakota? I think so....easily.....even with an enrollment of only 50...move them to a class b town and could they do same thing in a public school with an enrollment of 200?? Why? Pretty simple...larger population = better choice of athletes.

[SWsportsfan]

OK, I've heard all the theories as to why the private schools are better in the past and I just wanted to add my two cents on each of them.

Recruitment - They don't, they should, but they don't. Parents chose to send us to school there because they want to give their children a Catholic/Christian education or they want them to get a good education. Randy Gordon doesn't go out and recruit kids, either does Greg Grinsteinner. 95% of Trinity's athletes, for example are in the Catholic School system since kindergarten.

It's my personal belief that private schools should institute an aggressive recruitment program. They tend to be great academically, look at their test scores year to year and the number of kids they have graduating with honors and you'll realize that people are sending their kids to the private schools for more than just athletics. The coaches aren't just great coaches, they are great teachers. Greg Grinsteinner is hands down the one of the best math teachers in the state from what I hear, at any level, college included. Fargo Shanley's late-great football coach Sid Cichy recruited based on Shanley's academics and I believe the other private schools should follow his example.

Capping enrollment - The most ridiculous charge that is leveled against private schools. If they were going to cap enrollment to stay at the Class B level why not cap it closer to the cut off and maximize revenue. I'm sure there are some conspiracy theorists that would claim that the reason they keep it so low is because then it doesn't look suspicious. Grow up.

The private schools fight tooth and nail for every student they get and would open their doors to anyone that wants to come to school there. Its ridiculous to think that they wouldn't attempt every possible way to maximize their revenue. Are you contending that they purposely make it so they operate in the red?

Economically, it makes no sense for them to do this because they can't stay open without tuition. The more students they have going to school there the more revenue they have and the further in the black they are, something I can assure you they wish they were and they strive for each year.

Drawing from the bigger talent pool - It's hard to argue for or against this claim because or certain factors. Yes, they tend to be in bigger communities than the teams they compete against, but with co-ops and the fact that the majority of the kids are in the system from day one decreases the strength of that argument. Coaching and work ethic has to have played a factor then...doesn't it? Or are you so close-minded in your argumentation that you won't acknowledge that?


I'm interested in where you've received your facts on the private schools taking who they want...when they want? Do you have proof that backs this up? I'd be willing to listen to facts if you can provide them...otherwise I'll just continue to think you may just be a jealous clown.

[bomberfan13]

so you can honestly say that minot ryan does not recruit? that is total crap and you know it, how else do you get an "exchange student" or whatever from Serbia that just happens to have played on the Serbian National Team? Not only one, but two of them. I'm not saying all of them do, but it sure seems like ryan at least is recruiting.

[Hinsa]

This WAS a topic on the 3-class system. It seems to be going elsewhere, and not in a good direction. Topic locked.