Shaunna Knife to BOTNO

[belcourtfan07]

:)knife made the best move she can make.  mandee also did a good move too.. the other belcourt girl should of went with mandee too, she would have fit in good.  belcourt's girl's b ball program needs a change.  start from the top and move out some of the coaches.  some that have experience as a b ball coach .:?

[VolsFan3]

Knife didn't move to bottineau yet? did she.?

[Baller]

Knife didn't move to bottineau yet? did she.?

she enrolled in school at the beginning of the quarter but the rumor is that her parents are moving there this summer.

[fbinnd]

Boy, it's funny how we will applaud a high school kid for moving to win a title, but we'll despize a pro athlete for doing the same.  They ask to be traded to a contender, when the other team will at least get something for him, and everyone reacts by calling the player a whiner only out for himself.

But, as long as mighty Bottineau can reload, we'll all turn a blind eye.  We'll just send the message that you can abandon your teammates and do what's right for you now, and hopefully, scold her with a sense of "team" later in life.

High school athletes are just not learning perserverence anymore.  If you don't like your coach, we'll fire him, even if he's good (Del Val, Starr), or, the whole family will pick up and move for your HS basketball career.  North Dakota needs a better value system than high school basketball.

[hoop_fan1]

Boy, it's funny how we will applaud a high school kid for moving to win a title, but we'll despize a pro athlete for doing the same.  They ask to be traded to a contender, when the other team will at least get something for him, and everyone reacts by calling the player a whiner only out for himself.

But, as long as mighty Bottineau can reload, we'll all turn a blind eye.  We'll just send the message that you can abandon your teammates and do what's right for you now, and hopefully, scold her with a sense of "team" later in life.

High school athletes are just not learning perserverence anymore.  If you don't like your coach, we'll fire him, even if he's good (Del Val, Starr), or, the whole family will pick up and move for your HS basketball career.  North Dakota needs a better value system than high school basketball.

I disagree w/your statement.  perseverance does not overcome the stupidity of some of our elected officials who decide how our shool systems are run.   A high school student/athlete, (& I must stress that I mean student first) will leave for basketball, etc - but I would bet in Ms. Knife's case, she has the ability to play beyond high school.  Moving to bottineau and in all likely-hood getting to the state tourney, she will get more exposure/looks from colleges- which will lead to scholarship offers- which will improve her chances of getting a good education, & as a bonus, is subsidized because of her ability to dribble & shoot.  she will be on a better team- yes.  she will probably be in & possibly win a state title-yes.  but I bet it's about opportunity & bettering yourself- not just in high school, but for years to come. 

Put it this way, if you work for a company that really not cool & isn't doing very well & doesn't pay you very well, do you continue to work at a place you don't enjoy, don't have fun, etc?  No, you go down the street to find some place that's more stable & will pay you better.  that's life. 

I don't think it's about bottineau "reloading".  Bottineau just happens to be on the receiving end of it because it is logistically close to Belcourt.  If Mayville was close to Belcourt, she'd end up at Mayville, not because Mayville recruited her. 

If this were texas football & every parent has a pipedream that their kid's going to go pro someday, then I would agree that some poor decision-making/parenting was happening. 

[fan1234]

With all due respect, this is about more than college basketball.  If Bottineau sucked, would she transfer there?  We always see the rich get richer in this situation, and it destroys the balance of high school basketball.  If this is the college or pro level, where you can "price" people out of the market for some players, fine.  But if she's that good, she'll get her props and go to college to play ball.  This is about winning and losing, and Bottineau reloading.  Wouldn't be surprised if there was some recruiting going on here.

[cdub1]

With all due respect, this is about more than college basketball.  If Bottineau sucked, would she transfer there?  We always see the rich get richer in this situation, and it destroys the balance of high school basketball.  If this is the college or pro level, where you can "price" people out of the market for some players, fine.  But if she's that good, she'll get her props and go to college to play ball.  This is about winning and losing, and Bottineau reloading.  Wouldn't be surprised if there was some recruiting going on here.

well you wont be surprised because none went on and a lot of great players wont get their props because noone will get to see them play if she stayed at belcourt a college coach is gonna think "20 points and 9 rebounds a game not bad, her team is 2-9, looks like she just gets to shoot all the time" or a college coach will think "15 points and 9 rebounds and her team is 14-0 she must be pretty good"

[hoop_fan1]

thanks cdub1!

[fbinnd]

No one really buys the increased exposure due to a winning team rule.  Every college coach in the land will know about you if you're good enough to play in college.  She will get no further attention playing for Bottineau than she would have for Belcourt, and in fact, the opposite may be true.  She'd get a lot more attention playing regularly in Bismarck, Minot, Dickinson, and Jamestown than playing in Bottineau or Dunseith.

This is all about wins and losses.  The "I" is coming before "team".  I want to win, so I'm leaving my team.  This is an ugly precedent.  Whoever is winning, let's join up with them.  The NDHSAA expanded the rule on ineligibility on a transfer to one year because of this garbage.  Starting next school year, if you leave after a season to transfer to another school with Mom and Dad elsewhere, you sit 180 school days.  That way, the transfer is ineligible for an entire year in that sport.  This will limit free agency in ND.  Under the new rule, if you leave after your junior season, you don't have a senior season.  Take mom and dad with you, or head for the greener pastures after junior high, so you can sit your year early.

[cdub1]

No one really buys the increased exposure due to a winning team rule.  Every college coach in the land will know about you if you're good enough to play in college.  She will get no further attention playing for Bottineau than she would have for Belcourt, and in fact, the opposite may be true.  She'd get a lot more attention playing regularly in Bismarck, Minot, Dickinson, and Jamestown than playing in Bottineau or Dunseith.

This is all about wins and losses.  The "I" is coming before "team".  I want to win, so I'm leaving my team.  This is an ugly precedent.  Whoever is winning, let's join up with them.  The NDHSAA expanded the rule on ineligibility on a transfer to one year because of this garbage.  Starting next school year, if you leave after a season to transfer to another school with Mom and Dad elsewhere, you sit 180 school days.  That way, the transfer is ineligible for an entire year in that sport.  This will limit free agency in ND.  Under the new rule, if you leave after your junior season, you don't have a senior season.  Take mom and dad with you, or head for the greener pastures after junior high, so you can sit your year early.

can you explain to me why people go to oak hill academy and why north dakota only has about one player go d1 every year? if exposure doesnt matter

[luvmy3gbb1wr]

With all due respect, this is about more than college basketball.  If Bottineau sucked, would she transfer there?  We always see the rich get richer in this situation, and it destroys the balance of high school basketball.  If this is the college or pro level, where you can "price" people out of the market for some players, fine.  But if she's that good, she'll get her props and go to college to play ball.  This is about winning and losing, and Bottineau reloading.  Wouldn't be surprised if there was some recruiting going on here.

well you wont be surprised because none went on and a lot of great players wont get their props because noone will get to see them play if she stayed at belcourt a college coach is gonna think "20 points and 9 rebounds a game not bad, her team is 2-9, looks like she just gets to shoot all the time" or a college coach will think "15 points and 9 rebounds and her team is 14-0 she must be pretty good"

how about Rebecca Feickert of Sheridan County?  She stayed put with an average team; yet got recruited to Kansas and a Miss Basketball nod. it just shows you don't have to move to a state quality team to get noticed......there's a lot of jumping ship in the high school ranks, recruiting or not, it's a problem, period.

[fbinnd]

Absolutely.  If you have D1 talent, you will be recruited by D1 schools.  When you compare ND's school population to other states, the simple math would dictate that we wouldn't have that many D1 players.

And Cdub, are you just focusing on basketball?  D1 athletes come in all forms of sport.  Between baseball, football, mens and womens basketball, ND gets it's share of D1 athletes.  Kyle Carr at UM, Charlie Shirek at Nebraska.  Amanda Girodat at NDSU.  Darin Erstad was a D1 athlete in two sports at Nebraska. 

Again, this is not a move that Knife is making for any kind of college gain.  This is about wins and losses.  But I'm cool with it.  It only justifies the new transfer rule strengthens the argument for the 3-class system.  But lets not kid ourselves about the lack of recruitment or the motives behind the move.

[Mr. Me Too]

None of you guys even know why she left belcourt, it wasn't about losing...belcourt was steadily improving as shaunna grew more and more...she helped a team that went from 0 wins in what 3 years to being decent in the WDA, they weren't the bottom of it like they were back in the old, and shaunna was sadened when she had to move but she got use to it...but this whole thing about shaunna moving isn't for HER, it's a different decision that shaunna and family only know about...

[luvmy3gbb1wr]

This changing of schools is not just about knife........look at other regions........alycia kramer moved from wahpeton to lidgerwood......the geffres from shanley to hankinson.......kyle brandenburg from edgeley to lamoure.......sam baldwin from d-st to grafton.......and those are just the tip of the iceberg.....all moving to better programs or to be bigger fish in a smaller pond......another example of staying put and still getting recruited, wasn't there a lemnus from enderlin that went d-1 as well?

[fbinnd]

Jenna Lemnus (Enderlin Eagles) played at Louisville at the beginning of her career.  She is currently at NDSU, which, by the way, is a DI institution.  That would be another ND player who is at the DI level.

Speaking of DI players, you can toss Kyle Steffes in that mix.  Tom Hoge has signed to play golf at TCU.  David Schultz did the same.  Boy, the more you dig, the more you see ND kids at the DI level.  So much for having to jump ship to get noticed.  In fact, I would bet we have more DI kids that didn't jump ship than who did.

[Baller]

This changing of schools is not just about knife........look at other regions........alycia kramer moved from wahpeton to lidgerwood......the geffres from shanley to hankinson.......kyle brandenburg from edgeley to lamoure.......sam baldwin from d-st to grafton.......and those are just the tip of the iceberg.....all moving to better programs or to be bigger fish in a smaller pond......another example of staying put and still getting recruited, wasn't there a lemnus from enderlin that went d-1 as well?

The Geffres moved because shanley fired Metcalf...not because they wanted more time.

[Carl08]

This changing of schools is not just about knife........look at other regions........alycia kramer moved from wahpeton to lidgerwood......the geffres from shanley to hankinson.......kyle brandenburg from edgeley to lamoure.......sam baldwin from d-st to grafton.......and those are just the tip of the iceberg.....all moving to better programs or to be bigger fish in a smaller pond......another example of staying put and still getting recruited, wasn't there a lemnus from enderlin that went d-1 as well?

The Geffres moved because shanley fired Metcalf...not because they wanted more time.

ummm...no they didn't get your facts straight - why they left is not something that needs to be talked about on this form but i can promise you it had very little if anything to do with Barb Metcalf leaving.

[cdub1]

Jenna Lemnus (Enderlin Eagles) played at Louisville at the beginning of her career.  She is currently at NDSU, which, by the way, is a DI institution.  That would be another ND player who is at the DI level.

Speaking of DI players, you can toss Kyle Steffes in that mix.  Tom Hoge has signed to play golf at TCU.  David Schultz did the same.  Boy, the more you dig, the more you see ND kids at the DI level.  So much for having to jump ship to get noticed.  In fact, I would bet we have more DI kids that didn't jump ship than who did.

golf basketball you can tell if someone is good at golf because you can LOOK AT A SCORE JUST LIKE TRACK OR SWIMMING basketball you look who they play against that wuz a horrible example

[cdub1]

This changing of schools is not just about knife........look at other regions........alycia kramer moved from wahpeton to lidgerwood......the geffres from shanley to hankinson.......kyle brandenburg from edgeley to lamoure.......sam baldwin from d-st to grafton.......and those are just the tip of the iceberg.....all moving to better programs or to be bigger fish in a smaller pond......another example of staying put and still getting recruited, wasn't there a lemnus from enderlin that went d-1 as well?

those two points contradict each other it pretty much seems like if you are talented and have to move you are selfish and screwing your team over where in most cases you don't have the choice to move i know if i said to my parents i want to move to virginia to play basketball that wouldn't happen

[luvmy3gbb1wr]

what, you equate bigger with better?

[cdub1]

what, you equate bigger with better?

the way you made it sound maybe i read it wrong was that

player a moves to a better town to win state

player b moves to a worse town to be the head honcho and get all the shots

in either case they better be pretty good or their move isn't going to help them in anyway

explain what you meant though i think i read it wrong

[luvmy3gbb1wr]

really, truly, how many of these kids actually move because their parents got different jobs first?  call me cynical, but i bet none.....there's at least ten players that I know personally that left bigger programs to go to smaller programs to be a bigger player on a smaller team......hasn't worked real well yet for some but most of these kids still have a year left......

there are different ulterior motives when this kind of thing happens.....some kids/parents move to get to better programs to win a championship or have their kid play in a good program since many believe that's the only way the kid will get scholarship offers.....others go the opposite way to get noticed....if you are a better player in a better program, you might move to a smaller pool of talent purely for selfish reasons.....now they're the best player and will get noticed more because of this....

regardless of the reason, it's become enough of a problem that the NDHSAA has noticed (and they take forever to notice a problem) and have taken steps to try and curb it.......maybe ND should become like MN, there's a large number of players that don't play for their high school teams, they just play for their AAU teams year round.

oh well, don't know if that clarifies, answers, or just starts another argument:headbang:

 

 

[fbinnd]

So, cdub says that in basketball, to guage someone's ability, you have to look at who they play against. 

But before that, he said that someone scoring well on a team that wasn't winning was not as good as someone scoring well on a team that was winning.

So, under cdub's example, unless you go to state, you can never play D1 basketball.  Why?  Well, if you score 20 a game while destroying defenseless really small Class "B" teams, your 20 is no good because your competition is bad.  And if you score 20 while losing to huge Class "A" teams, your 20 is no good because you're the only option on a losing team.

Under this wonderful scenario cdub has laid out, I have constructed a list of schools that will allow your 20 points and 10 rebounds a game to look legit.  A list of schools where they do some winning, they have other options besides a single player, and they play good competition.  This list should comprise every D1 womens basketball player that will ever come from North Dakota in the future, since the other teams offer no legitimacy to your stats.  The list is as follows:

1.  Devils Lake

2.

I guess Kielpinski has some explaining to do.  Her stats are crap, since only a team or two in the west could really measure up.  What a business.

[cdub1]

So, cdub says that in basketball, to guage someone's ability, you have to look at who they play against. 

But before that, he said that someone scoring well on a team that wasn't winning was not as good as someone scoring well on a team that was winning.

So, under cdub's example, unless you go to state, you can never play D1 basketball.  Why?  Well, if you score 20 a game while destroying defenseless really small Class "B" teams, your 20 is no good because your competition is bad.  And if you score 20 while losing to huge Class "A" teams, your 20 is no good because you're the only option on a losing team.

Under this wonderful scenario cdub has laid out, I have constructed a list of schools that will allow your 20 points and 10 rebounds a game to look legit.  A list of schools where they do some winning, they have other options besides a single player, and they play good competition.  This list should comprise every D1 womens basketball player that will ever come from North Dakota in the future, since the other teams offer no legitimacy to your stats.  The list is as follows:

1.  Devils Lake

2.

I guess Kielpinski has some explaining to do.  Her stats are crap, since only a team or two in the west could really measure up.  What a business.

mandan fits your example very well 2 all staters they went to and won state they played against the number 2 3 and 4 teams in the state and beat them they won a very good tournament in wyoming

also as far as i know only kielpinski and collins have offers to play d1 basketball from that team both of them were all state both multiple state championship winners and both dominate the aau circuit

and please name for me some players who went d1 that never went to a state tournament and i will tell you why they went d1

[fbinnd]

No way cdub.  You back up your argument.  You stated that kids have a better chance of going D1 when they are on winning teams.  A few different people in this thread have already challenged that.  Instead of you picking apart every D1 kid we've ever had, you tell us why transferring to a winning team will get you better recognition for college ball. 

The first path towards recognition is getting your name in the press.  And the bigger the press, the better.  So, staying in Belcourt and being the standout on a team that will be covered by the Bismarck, Minot, Williston, Dickinson, and Jamestown press is way better for recognition than being covered by the Bottineau, Rugby, and various county press.  Not dissing any quality of those outlets, but the circulation/range/viewership of the big city press is better for recognition.

If Knife is after exposure, she's better off in Belcourt.  If exposure is not the key, the answer is most likely wins and losses, which is no reason to transfer. 

BTW:  Justin Anderson of Valley City played D1 basketball with Shaquille O'Neal at LSU.  No state tournament.  Jada Anderson of Valley City played D1 basketball at Maryland.  No state tournament.  These were 20 and 15 years ago, well before the proliferation of the internet.  Jenna Lemnus of Enderlin is playing D1 basketball at NDSU.  No state tournament.  D1 doesn't mean Big 12 Freshman of the Year, like Jeff Boschee.  D1 means making the team at the highest level of college basketball we have.  Boschee's success means he was a star at D1.  Making the team is enough to be a D1 player.