North Dakota Preps

Ok the season is over and Bottineau is the champ. So lets have some fun and create something to talk about. Lets play pick the State All Tournament team. Two of these six were selected to the all tournament team. But did they deserve the selection? Without doing some additional research to find out who they are make your selections off of the statistics. If you want to reason why you selected those two over the others feel free. I will post who each one was in a few days after everyone has a chance to make their selections and comments. Lets start the discussion. REMEMBER ONLY SELECT 2.


   PTS REB Gms 2pt 3pt FGA FG% FT FTA FT% Off Def TREB TnOv Asst PF pts

A   7.7  7.3   3 ...7    2    20  45% 3   3  100% 7   15    22     5       8   13  23

B  9.7   7.0   3 ... 9   0   37 24% 11  15  73%  7   14    21    17     11   11 29

C  9.7   6.7   3 ... 10  0   46 22% 9   10  90%  6    14   20     4        1   11 29

D  9.7   9.7   3 ... 10  0   31 32% 9   11  82% 10   19   29     12      4    9  29

E  8.7   7.7   3 ... 9   0   19 47%   8   12  67%  7   16   23      8       1    7  26

F  8.7   3.7   3 ... 12  0   17 71%   2    9  22%  6     5   11      4       0   13  26

D

A

Although you just can't look at stats to determine the all tourney team, if I had to base it on stats I would choose A & D.  But since it isn't based on stats, whatever is proven here won't mean a thing to any conspiracy theories.

one thing that really annoyed me was that the tournament didn't track steals and blocks...espcially with bobbi grann's defensively showing against steele-dawson where the pirates were forced into 27 (or 29?) turnovers which was about double their season average, i would have liked to have seen those numbers.

InTheKnow wrote:Ok the season is over and Bottineau is the champ. So lets have some fun and create something to talk about. Lets play pick the State All Tournament team. Two of these six were selected to the all tournament team. But did they deserve the selection? Without doing some additional research to find out who they are make your selections off of the statistics. If you want to reason why you selected those two over the others feel free. I will post who each one was in a few days after everyone has a chance to make their selections and comments. Lets start the discussion. REMEMBER ONLY SELECT 2.


   PTS REB Gms 2pt 3pt FGA FG% FT FTA FT% Off Def TREB TnOv Asst PF pts

A   7.7  7.3   3 ...7    2    20  45% 3   3  100% 7   15    22     5       8   13  23

B  9.7   7.0   3 ... 9   0   37 24% 11  15  73%  7   14    21    17     11   11 29

C  9.7   6.7   3 ... 10  0   46 22% 9   10  90%  6    14   20     4        1   11 29

D  9.7   9.7   3 ... 10  0   31 32% 9   11  82% 10   19   29     12      4    9  29

E  8.7   7.7   3 ... 9   0   19 47%   8   12  67%  7   16   23      8       1    7  26

F  8.7   3.7   3 ... 12  0   17 71%   2    9  22%  6     5   11      4       0   13  26

lol id play but i know all the stats already so i cant cheat.... i know which ones made it

I am going with A and D also.

bballer2 wrote:

InTheKnow wrote:Ok the season is over and Bottineau is the champ. So lets have some fun and create something to talk about. Lets play pick the State All Tournament team. Two of these six were selected to the all tournament team. But did they deserve the selection? Without doing some additional research to find out who they are make your selections off of the statistics. If you want to reason why you selected those two over the others feel free. I will post who each one was in a few days after everyone has a chance to make their selections and comments. Lets start the discussion. REMEMBER ONLY SELECT 2.


   PTS REB Gms 2pt 3pt FGA FG% FT FTA FT% Off Def TREB TnOv Asst PF pts

A   7.7  7.3   3 ...7    2    20  45% 3   3  100% 7   15    22     5       8   13  23

B  9.7   7.0   3 ... 9   0   37 24% 11  15  73%  7   14    21    17     11   11 29

C  9.7   6.7   3 ... 10  0   46 22% 9   10  90%  6    14   20     4        1   11 29

D  9.7   9.7   3 ... 10  0   31 32% 9   11  82% 10   19   29     12      4    9  29

E  8.7   7.7   3 ... 9   0   19 47%   8   12  67%  7   16   23      8       1    7  26

F  8.7   3.7   3 ... 12  0   17 71%   2    9  22%  6     5   11      4       0   13  26

lol id play but i know all the stats already so i cant cheat.... i know which ones made it

Did you agree with them? Go ahead and pick who you think it should have been anyway.

Stromer wrote:Although you just can't look at stats to determine the all tourney team, if I had to base it on stats I would choose A & D.  But since it isn't based on stats, whatever is proven here won't mean a thing to any conspiracy theories.

No conspiracy theories. Just getting what everyone's take is. Yes there are things you cant tell from the stat sheet, however stats like turnover to assist ratio, shooting percentage, and rebounds tell how much of an asset or detractor they were to their team. They dont tell the whole story but they speak volumes.

InTheKnow wrote:

Stromer wrote:Although you just can't look at stats to determine the all tourney team, if I had to base it on stats I would choose A & D.  But since it isn't based on stats, whatever is proven here won't mean a thing to any conspiracy theories.

No conspiracy theories. Just getting what everyone's take is. Yes there are things you cant tell from the stat sheet, however stats like turnover to assist ratio, shooting percentage, and rebounds tell how much of an asset or detractor they were to their team. They dont tell the whole story but they speak volumes.

one of the persons that made it i dint agree with so no... i didn't agree at all... but hey what do i know...

bballer2 wrote:

InTheKnow wrote:

Stromer wrote:Although you just can't look at stats to determine the all tourney team, if I had to base it on stats I would choose A & D.  But since it isn't based on stats, whatever is proven here won't mean a thing to any conspiracy theories.

No conspiracy theories. Just getting what everyone's take is. Yes there are things you cant tell from the stat sheet, however stats like turnover to assist ratio, shooting percentage, and rebounds tell how much of an asset or detractor they were to their team. They dont tell the whole story but they speak volumes.

one of the persons that made it i dint agree with so no... i didn't agree at all... but hey what do i know...

Who would you have picked then? (no names)

I have two points I'd like to make...

1. I think one of the most important factors in selecting an all-tournament team is how successful the player's team was during the tournament. You can put up all kinds of great numbers in the sunshine bracket, but big deal. I would say generally, the two teams playing in the final should make up close to half of the all-tourney team and the players playing in consolation on Friday and Saturday would need to have outstanding numbers to make the team. You can compare numbers all you want, but if one of those six players was on the championship-winning or runner-up teams, they should be selected IMO.

2. They all seem pretty even to me, but none of them seem that outstanding... I mean, none of them are in double figures in scoring or rebounding... I don't see any standout numbers among the whole lot of them.

Y-not Daily wrote:I have two points I'd like to make...

1. I think one of the most important factors in selecting an all-tournament team is how successful the player's team was during the tournament. You can put up all kinds of great numbers in the sunshine bracket, but big deal. I would say generally, the two teams playing in the final should make up close to half of the all-tourney team and the players playing in consolation on Friday and Saturday would need to have outstanding numbers to make the team. You can compare numbers all you want, but if one of those six players was on the championship-winning or runner-up teams, they should be selected IMO.

2. They all seem pretty even to me, but none of them seem that outstanding... I mean, none of them are in double figures in scoring or rebounding... I don't see any standout numbers among the whole lot of them.

Only one of those listed made it to the semi's and IMO SHOULD have been selected but was not. You are right, they are rather balanced. So with that said which players looking at those numbers then probably dont deserve to be mentioned in that group. Besides the one, yes sunshine bracket which makes my point even more glaring. They didnt do anything outstanding enough to be selected over someone who did the little things that maybe averaged 5 points and 5 boards for one of the top four.

Really, let's not do this.  I think this is juvenile and mean-spirited.  For one, stats are too hard to use to judge a player's talent.  Yes, like you said, shooting percentage, assists, and what-not, but at the same time, not all great passes turn into an assist, nor do great defensive plays turn into a steal or a block.

On top of that, when I played high school ball, I was named to many all tournament teams, and once or twice, was left off.  You know where those awards are right now? Sitting in my garage in a box.  And believe it or not, I'm really not that far out of high school.  Why are they in the garage? Because it meant very little to me.  The people that get worked up over all tournament teams are 99% of the time, parents.

So let it go. These kids had the experience of playing in a state tournament.  They played on state-wide televison. Trust me, that's what they'll remember and cherish---not bitterness over not receiving a plaque saturday night.

And if you are a parent that started this, do your kid a favor and not make a big deal over this. That's why we have so many problems in team sports. All out parent jealousy.

Let it go.

who did make the all tounrament team??

vballfan06 wrote:Really, let's not do this.  I think this is juvenile and mean-spirited.  For one, stats are too hard to use to judge a player's talent.  Yes, like you said, shooting percentage, assists, and what-not, but at the same time, not all great passes turn into an assist, nor do great defensive plays turn into a steal or a block.

On top of that, when I played high school ball, I was named to many all tournament teams, and once or twice, was left off.  You know where those awards are right now? Sitting in my garage in a box.  And believe it or not, I'm really not that far out of high school.  Why are they in the garage? Because it meant very little to me.  The people that get worked up over all tournament teams are 99% of the time, parents.

So let it go. These kids had the experience of playing in a state tournament.  They played on state-wide televison. Trust me, that's what they'll remember and cherish---not bitterness over not receiving a plaque saturday night.

And if you are a parent that started this, do your kid a favor and not make a big deal over this. That's why we have so many problems in team sports. All out parent jealousy.

Let it go.

Sorry to burst your bubble but not a parent here. This is no attempt to be juveline or mean spirited. It is meant for a topic of discussion about the state tournament. You are right not all great passes turn into assists, and judging by the shooting percentages of all the teams in the tournament there were alot of assists left off the side of the rim and backboard.

I am sorry to hear that even though you excelled at basketball it really didnt mean that much to you. For lots of kids it means a ton because they poor their heart and soul and hard work into the game. For others it could mean wether or not a college scout that hasnt seen a kid play will consider going to watch them their senior year simply because they excelled at the state level agaisnt the best they can play. And yet for others, which it sounds you fit into, it all really doesnt matter.

As far as judging tallent. The all tournament team is not supposed to be a tallent selection but for the performance over the course of the three games. If the player that comes off the bench every game has a noticeable three game performance that is deserving of notariety they should be selected over someone who maybe has more tallent but not the production over the three games.

All tournament teams are a joke any how. It makes players loose focus sometimes and then they concentrate more on the individual things and not the whole team comcept. And I also agree it is the parents that get more upset about it than the kids do.

InTheKnow are you trying to say that A and D shoud've been on the all-tournament team or that they were on the all-tournament team and didn't deserve to be.  Who do you think should've been on the all-tounament team instead?

sioux10 wrote:InTheKnow are you trying to say that A and D shoud've been on the all-tournament team or that they were on the all-tournament team and didn't deserve to be.  Who do you think should've been on the all-tounament team instead?

Those are the 2 of 6 options i felt should have been on the team. One of them might even have been on there. I will give the results when everyone has a chance to respond.

Actually bud, I played college ball, at a JUCO...and when i was recruited no coaches ever brought up all tournament team selections into the conversation.  Now I coach high school volleyball---and I've had a couple girls go on to play college ball, and same thing, never has a college coach asked about all tournament selections.  College coaches want good kids, with a great work ethic.  Think about how many all state players we've had in ND who were never recruited to play college ball (quite a few). Reason being, it means nothing to college coaches either. It doesn't work into the equation.

B and D

vballfan06 wrote:Actually bud, I played college ball, at a JUCO...and when i was recruited no coaches ever brought up all tournament team selections into the conversation.  Now I coach high school volleyball---and I've had a couple girls go on to play college ball, and same thing, never has a college coach asked about all tournament selections.  College coaches want good kids, with a great work ethic.  Think about how many all state players we've had in ND who were never recruited to play college ball (quite a few). Reason being, it means nothing to college coaches either. It doesn't work into the equation.

My point exactly. They arent asking you wether or not they were all tournament team players either because they had seen them previously and liked what they saw or had already heard their accolades and that really isnt a question that is pertanant at that point because they already know they can play. Which was my basic point. If you are sending information to a school you are hoping to attend, especially out of the area, that is something a college coach will take notice of as to wether they are worth while to even respond to or to not waste their time. If you fail to make the all tournament team it means either A- you cant play at the states highest level against its best competition which means you can not play at the next level, or b- your team played poorly. I am not refering to small time juco ball where if you can be an all district selection you can play or any DAC school. Heck I know a guy from the north east part of the state that barely started half of his games senior season for a small school who eventally went on to a JUCO in Iowa after two semesters at a four year school. It is the major level of competion or coaches from other parts of the country that those types of recognition are relied on heavily in recruiting for future "considerations". With no video or being able to drive 3 hours and see them play whever they may or may not waste their time on the mass opinions of others.

Did Christine Miller make All-Tourney?

SDHoops wrote:Did Christine Miller make All-Tourney?

i'd have a hard time believing she didn't, though i don't remember off hand. i think she led the tournament in scoring?

rep wrote:

SDHoops wrote:Did Christine Miller make All-Tourney?

i'd have a hard time believing she didn't, though i don't remember off hand. i think she led the tournament in scoring?

yes she made it