Class B versus Class A

[baseball]

OK - here's my humble opinion - the top players in Class B are pretty much the same caliber as the top players in Class A, with an exception every couple years, for example Jessica Kielpinski this year or say Katie Lorenz a few years ago for the B's.  Thats why the All-Star games are usually pretty competitive.  However, it is the depth of the Class A schools that would make it nearly impossible for the B's to compete year in and year out.  Players 6-9 on most Class A schools would most likely be starters for the B's.  Yes, if a B team had a stud or 2 the games would be close, but eventually the depth of the A's would wear her out.  So it isn't that the best B players aren't as good as the best A players, its just that the A's overall teams are generally better than the B's.

ive played games and just had talks with kids from class A schools who basically think they are jsut better at life then kids from class B.  they think that just because they are Class A they are on a whole different level, not just sports too.  thats what gets to me the most is when they say stuff like that

[EastGuruWannabe]

yeah, unfortunately i agree with you - that attitude is out there for some kids, i'm sure its just typical adolescent insecurity, although i don't want to generalize.  it's probably true for everyone - not just kids - people from new york think people from minneapolis are hicks - people from mpls think people from fargo are hicks - and so on down the population line.  not everyone of course, but it only takes a few to put a sour taste in your mouth.  anyway, there are also a lot of good kids out there from both big schools and small schools

[baseball]

yeah, unfortunately i agree with you - that attitude is out there for some kids, i'm sure its just typical adolescent insecurity, although i don't want to generalize.  it's probably true for everyone - not just kids - people from new york think people from minneapolis are hicks - people from mpls think people from fargo are hicks - and so on down the population line.  not everyone of course, but it only takes a few to put a sour taste in your mouth.  anyway, there are also a lot of good kids out there from both big schools and small schools

there are alot of good kids out there yea....but it only takes that one kid to say "thats Class B for ya" to ruin it for the 15 that are good and dont look down on ya cuz you grew up in a smaller town

[Y-not Daily]

Where does Bottineau's girls fit in with class A girls, just curious.  This discussion is routinely debated in hockey since their is only one class.  Maybe not even debated, just discussed.  Is their a thread on this site about the three tier league for basketball?

I catch a fair amount of Class A girls basketball and the 2005-06 Bottineau team with Kelsey Aide, Sara Neubauer, Kayla Roemmich, etc. etc. could have been in the game with any Class A team with the possible exception of Mandan that season... They would have been right in the running with Century, Dickinson, Bismarck High, South, you name it....

They had it all with the possible exception of great outside shooting, but how many Class A are consistent from the outside?? Not very many, if any...

Neubauer and Roemmich inside would have been more than a match for most Class A posts and Kelsey Aide was the best, most athletic defender around, IMO...

[fbinnd]

Uh, no, they would not have been.  As was said not long ago on this thread, starter for starter, the matchups may appear even, but unless you are going to get 160 minutes out of your starters, you will not be competitive.  The depth on A teams will wear any class B team out.  It just doesn't matter.

And as far as that one kid that ruins it, you can trade that for that one parent, or really, that multitude of parents in class B towns that still think class B runs the world.  A kids have to hear about how their game doesn't matter at all their entire lives.  So it works both ways, and I'll wait till the B fans come to their senses before changing my argument.  B is slow, boring, and nothing like the product it used to be.

[The Schwab]

Uh, no, they would not have been.  As was said not long ago on this thread, starter for starter, the matchups may appear even, but unless you are going to get 160 minutes out of your starters, you will not be competitive.  The depth on A teams will wear any class B team out.  It just doesn't matter.

And as far as that one kid that ruins it, you can trade that for that one parent, or really, that multitude of parents in class B towns that still think class B runs the world.  A kids have to hear about how their game doesn't matter at all their entire lives.  So it works both ways, and I'll wait till the B fans come to their senses before changing my argument.  B is slow, boring, and nothing like the product it used to be.

Look at attendence numbers at the state tournament......class b is all by its self and is one of the biggest sporting events in ND. Class a has to have the "super A" which still doesnt come close to the excitement and feel of the STATE B.

[EastGuruWannabe]

Uh, no, they would not have been.  As was said not long ago on this thread, starter for starter, the matchups may appear even, but unless you are going to get 160 minutes out of your starters, you will not be competitive.  The depth on A teams will wear any class B team out.  It just doesn't matter.

And as far as that one kid that ruins it, you can trade that for that one parent, or really, that multitude of parents in class B towns that still think class B runs the world.  A kids have to hear about how their game doesn't matter at all their entire lives.  So it works both ways, and I'll wait till the B fans come to their senses before changing my argument.  B is slow, boring, and nothing like the product it used to be.

Look at attendence numbers at the state tournament......class b is all by its self and is one of the biggest sporting events in ND. Class a has to have the "super A" which still doesnt come close to the excitement and feel of the STATE B.

I don't think the B girls draws nearly what it did when it was in the fall.  I  think the B boys draws well because it is a social event and vacation event all rolled into one - the basketball in both girls and boys I have to agree with fbinnd, it really isn't that good - they need the shot clock so kids have to play the game, not sit on it for 3 minutes at a time.  So the attendence at the B boys isn't really about the actual basketball.  That is why the attendence at the B girls has been so bad since the seasons switched - basically people have to choose which B state tourney to attend, and 90% of the people are going to choose to go to the boys - there isn't 3 months between them anymore - its 2 weeks and people just aren't going to go to both (unless their team is in it).  to be honest the games of class A and class B have totally reversed themselves from 10-20 years ago when B was fast paced and A was slow, now its the other way around - A is fast paced thanks to the shot clock, and B is slow.  You're right about the atmosphere of the super A though - until championship night it is terrible.  2 games going on at once, championship brackets games being played in the afternoons, its just not like the old seperate tourneys.

[The Schwab]

Uh, no, they would not have been.  As was said not long ago on this thread, starter for starter, the matchups may appear even, but unless you are going to get 160 minutes out of your starters, you will not be competitive.  The depth on A teams will wear any class B team out.  It just doesn't matter.

And as far as that one kid that ruins it, you can trade that for that one parent, or really, that multitude of parents in class B towns that still think class B runs the world.  A kids have to hear about how their game doesn't matter at all their entire lives.  So it works both ways, and I'll wait till the B fans come to their senses before changing my argument.  B is slow, boring, and nothing like the product it used to be.

Look at attendence numbers at the state tournament......class b is all by its self and is one of the biggest sporting events in ND. Class a has to have the "super A" which still doesnt come close to the excitement and feel of the STATE B.

I don't think the B girls draws nearly what it did when it was in the fall.  I  think the B boys draws well because it is a social event and vacation event all rolled into one - the basketball in both girls and boys I have to agree with fbinnd, it really isn't that good - they need the shot clock so kids have to play the game, not sit on it for 3 minutes at a time.  So the attendence at the B boys isn't really about the actual basketball.  That is why the attendence at the B girls has been so bad since the seasons switched - basically people have to choose which B state tourney to attend, and 90% of the people are going to choose to go to the boys - there isn't 3 months between them anymore - its 2 weeks and people just aren't going to go to both (unless their team is in it).  to be honest the games of class A and class B have totally reversed themselves from 10-20 years ago when B was fast paced and A was slow, now its the other way around - A is fast paced thanks to the shot clock, and B is slow.  You're right about the atmosphere of the super A though - until championship night it is terrible.  2 games going on at once, championship brackets games being played in the afternoons, its just not like the old seperate tourneys.

well you have to take into account the HUGE storm that hit during the girls state this year for the lack of attendance...i would still say that the Girls B draws more than the super a.

 


 

[Y-not Daily]

Uh, no, they would not have been.  As was said not long ago on this thread, starter for starter, the matchups may appear even, but unless you are going to get 160 minutes out of your starters, you will not be competitive.  The depth on A teams will wear any class B team out.  It just doesn't matter.

And as far as that one kid that ruins it, you can trade that for that one parent, or really, that multitude of parents in class B towns that still think class B runs the world.  A kids have to hear about how their game doesn't matter at all their entire lives.  So it works both ways, and I'll wait till the B fans come to their senses before changing my argument.  B is slow, boring, and nothing like the product it used to be.

Naw, I think you're wrong... Bottineau had both the talent and depth to stick with Class A teams that season... Proof of that is last season. With a bunch of new starters they repeated as state champions... Mandee Keplin didn't even make an impact on the Bottineau team of 2005-06, but was the MVP of the state tournament in 2006-07. I've seen plenty of Class A girls hoops and there are plenty of dog teams or at least very inconsistent teams who are decent one night and bad the next. Bottineau would have been in the state semis in Class A two years ago.

[EastGuruWannabe]

Uh, no, they would not have been.  As was said not long ago on this thread, starter for starter, the matchups may appear even, but unless you are going to get 160 minutes out of your starters, you will not be competitive.  The depth on A teams will wear any class B team out.  It just doesn't matter.

And as far as that one kid that ruins it, you can trade that for that one parent, or really, that multitude of parents in class B towns that still think class B runs the world.  A kids have to hear about how their game doesn't matter at all their entire lives.  So it works both ways, and I'll wait till the B fans come to their senses before changing my argument.  B is slow, boring, and nothing like the product it used to be.

Naw, I think you're wrong... Bottineau had both the talent and depth to stick with Class A teams that season... Proof of that is last season. With a bunch of new starters they repeated as state champions... Mandee Keplin didn't even make an impact on the Bottineau team of 2005-06, but was the MVP of the state tournament in 2006-07. I've seen plenty of Class A girls hoops and there are plenty of dog teams or at least very inconsistent teams who are decent one night and bad the next. Bottineau would have been in the state semis in Class A two years ago.

I don't think so.  What team from the semis do you think they would have beaten to get there instead?  Mandan was ranked in the top 25 in the nation this year, and actually had a better team 2 years ago, Fargo South had 5 of the players on their team go on to play college basketball, Century  also sent multiple players onto college ball, and Bismarck will also have college players - multiple - but they're still on their team now.  Yes, there are some dog class a schools, but the best class schools - like the ones you would find in the state semis - are 8 to 10 deep with quality players

[bruins44]

Uh, no, they would not have been.  As was said not long ago on this thread, starter for starter, the matchups may appear even, but unless you are going to get 160 minutes out of your starters, you will not be competitive.  The depth on A teams will wear any class B team out.  It just doesn't matter.

And as far as that one kid that ruins it, you can trade that for that one parent, or really, that multitude of parents in class B towns that still think class B runs the world.  A kids have to hear about how their game doesn't matter at all their entire lives.  So it works both ways, and I'll wait till the B fans come to their senses before changing my argument.  B is slow, boring, and nothing like the product it used to be.

Naw, I think you're wrong... Bottineau had both the talent and depth to stick with Class A teams that season... Proof of that is last season. With a bunch of new starters they repeated as state champions... Mandee Keplin didn't even make an impact on the Bottineau team of 2005-06, but was the MVP of the state tournament in 2006-07. I've seen plenty of Class A girls hoops and there are plenty of dog teams or at least very inconsistent teams who are decent one night and bad the next. Bottineau would have been in the state semis in Class A two years ago.

I don't think so.  What team from the semis do you think they would have beaten to get there instead?  Mandan was ranked in the top 25 in the nation this year, and actually had a better team 2 years ago, Fargo South had 5 of the players on their team go on to play college basketball, Century  also sent multiple players onto college ball, and Bismarck will also have college players - multiple - but they're still on their team now.  Yes, there are some dog class a schools, but the best class schools - like the ones you would find in the state semis - are 8 to 10 deep with quality players

I totally agree with East Guru!!

[EDC]

I think that as many as half the Class A teams don't have 8 quality players.  Are there any Class B teams that have as many as seven quality players?

[Hunterlaf]

new town could compeat in class a dont u think?

[Eminence]

Compete? yes but I don't think they could dominate. 

 To be one of the dominating Class A team, you must have a dominating point guard, a dominating post player and a minimum 6 quality players.  

Class B teams can compete with an average to lower Class A team.  A good Class B team will have a few really good players that can compete or dominate in the Class A system but they do not have the numbers to choose from.  I grew up in the Class B system and it is definetly different in the Class A system. It is a lot more competitive. 

[Ol_Husky]

The average class A enrollment is about 1,000 students.  The enrollment of the average class B district is about 1,000 students.  The numbers are courtesy of the 2006-2007 Hoopster.

I would guess that the all-district team from the strongest class B district would be about even with the number 1 class A team.  And the second strongest class B all-district team would be about even with the number 2 class B team.  And so on...

...hmm, we might be on to something here?  A 'more inclusive' all-star competition?

Just a thought....

[mplsfan]

Bottineau and Langdon are two present class B schools that once competed successfully year in and year out in class A. Bottineau was in the state class A tourney 5 times finishing as high as 2nd. Over the years they beat Shanley, North, Minot, Dickinson, etc.(to name a few) in state tourney games. Old timers will remember that Williston was once THE state power with a 57 game winning streak and 3 straight state championships. That streak was ended by Bottineau in the regional semis. Bottineau went on to the state championship game losing to Minot ( a team they split with during the season). I don't believe that most class B teams would compete well against class A teams. On the other hand some of the better B programs have already "been there, done that".

[EastGuruWannabe]

Bottineau and Langdon are two present class B schools that once competed successfully year in and year out in class A. Bottineau was in the state class A tourney 5 times finishing as high as 2nd. Over the years they beat Shanley, North, Minot, Dickinson, etc.(to name a few) in state tourney games. Old timers will remember that Williston was once THE state power with a 57 game winning streak and 3 straight state championships. That streak was ended by Bottineau in the regional semis. Bottineau went on to the state championship game losing to Minot ( a team they split with during the season). I don't believe that most class B teams would compete well against class A teams. On the other hand some of the better B programs have already "been there, done that".

That is all true, however its hard to make that comparison today.  those were the days before feeder programs, before traveling ball and team camps.  for those teams in the early 70's when girls basketball started, there was no jr high programs and girls bb was treated more like a pe class than a sport.  now girls bb is probably one of the top 3 or 4 sports at a school, trailing boys bb and fb and the game today is totally different, both on and off the court.  back in the 70's yes, the smaller schools would compete with the bigger schools, but mainly because the sport was in its infancy, and skills were bad all the way around, regardless of what size school you were in - not the players' fault, its just that the sport was just starting up and nobody had really played before, certainly not to the extent they prepare to play now.  anyway, its a tough comparison

[ndlionsfan]

The average class A enrollment is about 1,000 students.  The enrollment of the average class B district is about 1,000 students.  The numbers are courtesy of the 2006-2007 Hoopster.

I would guess that the all-district team from the strongest class B district would be about even with the number 1 class A team.  And the second strongest class B all-district team would be about even with the number 2 class B team.  And so on...

...hmm, we might be on to something here?  A 'more inclusive' all-star competition?

Just a thought....

I don't know of a single class B district that has 1000 total students.  The larger ones like Rugby, Grafton, MayPort, Landgon, etc. have around 500-600 students.  Most of the class B schools now have total enrollments of 150-200 students.

[ClassBEast]

The average class A enrollment is about 1,000 students.  The enrollment of the average class B district is about 1,000 students.  The numbers are courtesy of the 2006-2007 Hoopster.

I would guess that the all-district team from the strongest class B district would be about even with the number 1 class A team.  And the second strongest class B all-district team would be about even with the number 2 class B team.  And so on...

...hmm, we might be on to something here?  A 'more inclusive' all-star competition?

Just a thought....

I don't know of a single class B district that has 1000 total students.  The larger ones like Rugby, Grafton, MayPort, Landgon, etc. have around 500-600 students.  Most of the class B schools now have total enrollments of 150-200 students.

My guess is that was a typo and was supposed to be 100, not 1,000.

[Ol_Husky]

I was referring to total high school enrollment for ALL the B schools in the NDHSAA District (all the schools in NDHSAA District 1, or NDHSAA District 2, etc.).  Each district consists of 6 to 9 class B schools.  If you add up their high school enrollments, you'll be around 1,000 (plus or minus a hundred or so students).

That NDHSAA Class B District enrollment total is roughly the size of the average Class A high school enrollment.

[Baller]

I was referring to total high school enrollment for ALL the B schools in the NDHSAA District (all the schools in NDHSAA District 1, or NDHSAA District 2, etc.).  Each district consists of 6 to 9 class B schools.  If you add up their high school enrollments, you'll be around 1,000 (plus or minus a hundred or so students).

That NDHSAA Class B District enrollment total is roughly the size of the average Class A high school enrollment.

Now I get it!!! I thought we were talking about school districts.

[Eminence]

How many girls have transferred from B to A and Vice Versa?  I know Marlee Finely was on the Class B state team and did very well in Class A.  Shanna Knife I'm sure will excel in the Class B and was on the Class A WDA team. 

 

[ndlionsfan]

I was referring to total high school enrollment for ALL the B schools in the NDHSAA District (all the schools in NDHSAA District 1, or NDHSAA District 2, etc.).  Each district consists of 6 to 9 class B schools.  If you add up their high school enrollments, you'll be around 1,000 (plus or minus a hundred or so students).

That NDHSAA Class B District enrollment total is roughly the size of the average Class A high school enrollment.

Now I get it!!! I thought we were talking about school districts.

Now I get it too.....thanks for clarifying.  That's a good point.

[ball23]

How many girls have transferred from B to A and Vice Versa?  I know Marlee Finely was on the Class B state team and did very well in Class A.  Shanna Knife I'm sure will excel in the Class B and was on the Class A WDA team. 

 

Most of the time teams didnt' know how to guard her, i wonder how it's going to be for her in class B.

[Unity77]

Bottineau and Langdon are two present class B schools that once competed successfully year in and year out in class A. Bottineau was in the state class A tourney 5 times finishing as high as 2nd. Over the years they beat Shanley, North, Minot, Dickinson, etc.(to name a few) in state tourney games. Old timers will remember that Williston was once THE state power with a 57 game winning streak and 3 straight state championships. That streak was ended by Bottineau in the regional semis. Bottineau went on to the state championship game losing to Minot ( a team they split with during the season). I don't believe that most class B teams would compete well against class A teams. On the other hand some of the better B programs have already "been there, done that".

Former Class A schools and their tournament appearances.

Grafton 8
84, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 97, 03

Langdon 6
74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79

Bottineau 5
74, 77, 78, 80, 86

Minot Ryan 2
81, 82

Rugby 1
76

Beulah 1
01