Numbers

[vikingman]

what could be more selfish that expecting people to go out for a sport that they don't like just because YOU want them to? Do you expect everyone who hates music to be in the band and choir?

[Sportsrube]

When I was coaching I had a few girls that played VB for me and were pretty good (All District). They came out for BB because their parents made them - it was a miserable experience for them, the coaches and their teammates. They did very little in practice and were content to sit the bench during games. When they did play in games (JV) they basically stood around and put almost no effort into it. After 2 years of this I convinced the parents to let them quit basketball and they did. Life got much better for them, for the coaches and for their teammates. Forcing kids to play a sport is simply not a good idea.

[maddog1971]

I also think that the Shinny New Penny for coaches also hurts the programs. I get that 7th and 8th Grade girls can play with some varsity programs and be good. BUT when they displace playing time for a senior or Junior that is just as good but have reached their potential... sit on the bench.... while the 7th and 8th Grader play.... well... that kills the numbers as well. I see that alot. I say let the you girl play JV and get better.
Coaches that say their program is going to really good in a few years so that is why they are playing on the young kids..

[d_fense]

When I was coaching I had a few girls that played VB for me and were pretty good (All District). They came out for BB because their parents made them - it was a miserable experience for them, the coaches and their teammates. They did very little in practice and were content to sit the bench during games. When they did play in games (JV) they basically stood around and put almost no effort into it. After 2 years of this I convinced the parents to let them quit basketball and they did. Life got much better for them, for the coaches and for their teammates. Forcing kids to play a sport is simply not a good idea.

I hope that your experience is an outlier/small sample size, in which a couple of low character young ladies showed their stripes. It will show again as they get older and are directed to do something while at their jobs that they don't feel like doing, and it will bite them in their A$$. Maybe I am to optimistic, but I refuse to believe their example is the norm. I have recruited many athletes to come out and play in sports they where not in love with, because the team needed their help. Sometimes the team needed practice depth, and sometimes they would come out and be the best on the team just because sheer talent and athletic ability. Everyone from small communities need to realize that they are members of a team/family and everyone is important.

I know that participation is hurting even among some larger B schools and others that may not be huge but have good traditions. I think some of this is because the emphasis that some place on winning at young ages. I think kids are "weeded" out of some sports when they are young because playing time that is to unequal in not only jr. high, but even elementary sports. I just don't get it, but I see it way to much. Winning is not important before high school. Don't get me wrong, winning is nice, but I would rather my team lose, than have kids on the bench who just collect splinters.

[Bison-Vikes #1]

what could be more selfish that expecting people to go out for a sport that they don't like just because YOU want them to? Do you expect everyone who hates music to be in the band and choir?

Do you believe that every student knows exactly what's best for them while in their teens? How many people have you heard later in life say they wished they would have kept taking piano lessons? Wished they would have continued in the band and/or choir? Wished they would have went out for sports their high school years? Personally have heard it time and time again. Don't get me wrong, sometimes it just isn't in the cards. But too many times, just not "liking" something isn't a good enough reason for not participating. Does work come to mind?

When I was coaching I had a few girls that played VB for me and were pretty good (All District). They came out for BB because their parents made them - it was a miserable experience for them, the coaches and their teammates. They did very little in practice and were content to sit the bench during games. When they did play in games (JV) they basically stood around and put almost no effort into it. After 2 years of this I convinced the parents to let them quit basketball and they did. Life got much better for them, for the coaches and for their teammates. Forcing kids to play a sport is simply not a good idea.

I hope that your experience is an outlier/small sample size, in which a couple of low character young ladies showed their stripes. It will show again as they get older and are directed to do something while at their jobs that they don't feel like doing, and it will bite them in their A$$. Maybe I am to optimistic, but I refuse to believe their example is the norm. I have recruited many athletes to come out and play in sports they where not in love with, because the team needed their help. Sometimes the team needed practice depth, and sometimes they would come out and be the best on the team just because sheer talent and athletic ability. Everyone from small communities need to realize that they are members of a team/family and everyone is important.

I know that participation is hurting even among some larger B schools and others that may not be huge but have good traditions. I think some of this is because the emphasis that some place on winning at young ages. I think kids are "weeded" out of some sports when they are young because playing time that is to unequal in not only jr. high, but even elementary sports. I just don't get it, but I see it way to much. Winning is not important before high school. Don't get me wrong, winning is nice, but I would rather my team lose, than have kids on the bench who just collect splinters.

Agree with much of your take. Sports, along with all extra curricular activities are a very important part of life lessons. Not the only part, but an important piece to the puzzle. 2 cents.

[The Schwab]

I will piggy back off of d_fense. If you coach JH and younger, you should not be able to tell me your teams win-loss record. Teach them the fundamentals, how to be good teammates and "the love of the game.

Also, please teach man defense.

[vikingman]

There's always a trade-off in how you use your time--you can't do two things at once. If you're going to say to yourself, ' I don't want to play basketball, but maybe 10 years from now, I'll wish I did', you're just as likely to regret the fact that you DID decide to play basketball (or whatever).

When I was in HS, I played baseball freshman year. Soph year I decided not to go out because I wanted to work on basketball. That was a mistake. Jr year player baseball again. Sr year decided not to play baseball in order to spend more time on music. That was NOT a mistake. You can't throw your life away doing things you don't want to do just because you MIGHT end up regretting it later. In most cases, you'll end up regretting putting too much time into something you didn't enjoy instead of doing something that made you happy -- rather than doing something to make someone else happy.

[bison football73]

I don't know if this has been said already during the first time this discussion came up, but I personally think a large portion of the blame can be put on coaching styles. Too many coaches, across all sports, coach how they were coached, and those coaches coached how they were coached, and those coaches were coached how they were coached, and so on. When this happens it creates cultures of getting yelled at, running thousands of unnecessary sprints, and drills that were more relevant for the game when there was no three point line. This statement might rub some people the wrong way, but kids now, especially the girl athletes in our schools, do not respond well to these types of conditions. They're smarter than that.

[The Schwab]

I feel that with boys and girls basketball both being played in the winter, you have to find in essence double the coaches. I feel that this problem impacts the lower levels the most. You have a lot of elementary and JH coaches who are focusing on winning games and not teaching skills and making sure the players all get playing time. This situation will cause some of your "fringe" players to make the decision to stop playing basketball. IMO the state really needs to look at playing girls basketball in the fall again, but I don't see it happening for a number of factors.

I will agree with bison football that a lot of coaches will coach the same way that they were coached, but you also have some that will go the opposite way.

You also have a lot of communities that have a select few individuals who have a lot of pull and power in the school system. The small town politics end a lot of good, young coaching careers early. Burn out is a real problem. You see it in officiating as well.

[ChickenNuggets]

I think some of the major hurdles of switching VB and GBB would be-
1- Scheduling- Unless other states around us switched, there would be no out of state scheduling for either sport since they wouldn't be played at the same time.
2- Recruiting- This might not hurt BB as much since their season would be earlier, but with the rest of the country playing VB in the fall, college recruiters are going to be doing a bulk of their recruiting at that time and some schools may not have a lot of scholarships left over for the winter volleyball players.

Benefits-
1- Coaches can coach both the boys and the girls at the same schools.
2- Probably easier to schedule practices in small schools with limited gym space when not all the teams are practicing at the same time, although I guess VB still needs a gym to practice in, so maybe this isn't as much of a benefit.

[BelfieldBantams]

The way the numbers are going in VB and GBB you could make a case for a lot of class B schools that you would need more gym space for VB than for BB. So switching the seasons for gym space reasons probably wouldn't end up helping at all.

[Sportsrube]

I don't know if I buy the recruiting thing for VB. I coached VB for many years when it was in the fall and I had a few girls get recruited and I had more than a few coaches who said they actually liked it when ND/SD had VB in the winter because they had more time to go and watch kids play in person. If a player is good enough and a program really wants them they will recruit them no matter when their HS season is - just my opinion.

[Flip]

Good news for the girls in Kindred.... If you go out... you are probably on the Varsity this year. Looks like they have an 8th Grader on their roster and a couple 9th Graders. In a school that size and you have 14 girls out for basketball.... odds are there is some drama.... Looks like at least a couple girls that I can see that have played and started are not on the roster this year. Too Bad to see that.
They have 5 coaches as well.

Did Kindred have a backup post player not play this season? I can't remember her name. I thought she would be a senior this year. Got a lot of varsity minutes last year.

[leroybla]

Good news for the girls in Kindred.... If you go out... you are probably on the Varsity this year. Looks like they have an 8th Grader on their roster and a couple 9th Graders. In a school that size and you have 14 girls out for basketball.... odds are there is some drama.... Looks like at least a couple girls that I can see that have played and started are not on the roster this year. Too Bad to see that.
They have 5 coaches as well.

Did Kindred have a backup post player not play this season? I can't remember her name. I thought she would be a senior this year. Got a lot of varsity minutes last year.

I believe Jordan Sunram is not on Kindred's roster this year.

[ProV1X]

Sunram was a part-time starter last year. Sounds like she is focusing on soccer this winter to get ready for her spring season. She has committed to play soccer at University of Jamestown. She also played football on the state title team and kicked a field goal in the Dakota Bowl. From the games I have watched , they go 8 deep, with the 3 off the bench being sophomore Gette(who played a little varsity last year), 8th grader Eisenschenk (has played several minutes) and sophomore Bartels (the golfer who won 2 state titles in 2021).

[Flip]

We are about a week and a half into practice anyone know how many kids are playing at any schools?
I heard 21 at Mandan, but haven't heard of any B schools.

[Sportsrube]

We are about a week and a half into practice anyone know how many kids are playing at any schools?
I heard 21 at Mandan, but haven't heard of any B schools.

South Border has 15 girls out (9-12).

[birthday]

Napoleon has 15 girls out

[ChickenNuggets]

https://ndhsaanow.com/teams/basketball-girls

Rosters are due by December 5th to avoid getting fined. Many have them listed already.

[Flip]

https://ndhsaanow.com/teams/basketball-girls

Rosters are due by December 5th to avoid getting fined. Many have them listed already.

True, but they only need to list their varsity. Yes, in some instances teams are so small coaches put everyone on varsity.

[Flip]

I've heard Napoleon has 6 and Linton-HMB has 12, 9-12.

[WalkingStick]

I've heard Napoleon has 6 and Linton-HMB has 12, 9-12.

But...but…3 classes was supposed to raise participation

[Flip]

We're one day into the season, you might have to wait a few years to see if three classes help with participation. I honestly don't think it will.

[WalkingStick]

We're one day into the season, you might have to wait a few years to see if three classes help with participation. I honestly don't think it will.

That was what I was getting at...it may better for the Big schools that went down but it won't be a drastic change like they were selling.

[Sportsrube]

South Border has around 17 girls out this year. I don't think it has anything to do with the 3 class change but more to do with a good number of Sophomores and Freshmen out this year. Will be interesting to see if they all stick it out.