Almost There

[Flip]

Thoughts on having Class A and B girls on the same weekend?

[eyeinthesky]

Thoughts on having Class A and B girls on the same weekend?

I don't think the Class A schools would like that idea. The current tournament set up I think has greatly helped the Class A girl attendance. When you have both teams from a school in the tournament it appears to have boosted the attendance at the girls games. This is especially true when in a facility like the Civic Center or Fargo Dome when the courts are so close.

During the regular season there are a number of double headers so people have grown use to seeing the "A" boys and girls playing back to back. Pairing the "A"girls with the "B" girls would be something you rarely if ever see in the regular season. I would be worried that you would actually drag down attendance, at least on the "A" girls side of things, if you pair it up with the "B" girls. The boys fans that attend the super A currently and watch some A girls games would simply not come to a all girls tournament.

If you're a B girls fan a combined girls tournament could only be of benefit.

As for girls ball moving back to the Fall...love to see it, but odds of it happening are very very slim.

[Run4Fun2009]

I don't think the media would like the A & B together also.

[winner-within]

Winner,

um.......what?

Yep, you nailed it. I wanted to be a super, and they wouldn't let me. My only reason for being here is an axe to grind.

And if you think you know basketball, I'm looking for that knowledge to be displayed with better posts than, "Belcourt needs to be A, or do you not care about certain schools." There's that basketball wisdom shining through.

If you feel so strongly about Belcourt, why are you not petitioning for them to be moved down now? As I stated, they are playing Class A with two Bismarck schools and one West Fargo school. I give you three Bismarcks and two West Fargo's and that's when you think they should be moved down.

Keep displaying that basketball knowledge, winner. You're apparently a winner in name only.

I take Offense to this

[Mandan]

After a three-class system came to an end in the early 1960's, North Dakota developed a two-class sytem, but it had three (count 'em, three) ("3" for you Playin, in case your rules for debate are broken by using words for numbers) Class "A" conferences. There was the WDA, the EDC, and this wonderful league called the "North Star".

I'm coming in really late, but I just want to correct one thing from a factual standpoint:
From 1964 until 1980, class A had a FOUR region system: Northwest, Southwest, Northeast, Southeast.
North Star would not have existed until after 1980.

[Mandan]

Moving the girls to the fall should not have an affect on that sport as 49 other states do it and have successful girls basketball participation. Volleyball participation doesn't benefit from being in the fall.

When North Dakota moved girl's basketball to the winter, we were one of only a few states that still had it in the fall. The last holdout was Michigan, but they had to change in 2007 after a court fight ruled in favor of those that wanted the change. At this point ALL states have girl's basketball in the winter, so I don't see anyway that will ever change, especially with the court precedent set. If we had fought it, we'd still be at the same point we are at now, just with less money from paying lawyer fees. (and who would have paid the lawyers? The NDHSAA, I assume. And where do they get their money from?)

See the Michigan article below.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2007 ... /704030377

[gvmearees]

The North Star did exist before 1980, it was a conference that didn't determine whether a team was going to state however. Example, Harvey, Rugby were in the North Star conference and also in the Northwest region which determined which teams went to state. Minot and Williston typically were the 2 teams that came out of the Northwest region for the state tournament.

[Sportsrube]

As far as the North Star Conference becoming a "regional" tournament where the top 2 teams went to state it was during the 1979 - 1980 season. Thats also when the WDA and the EDC became "regional" tournaments.

[Mandan]

Someone mentioned how some people feel South Dakota was ruined by going to three classes. In South Dakota, the three classes of girls all play their state tournament on the same weekend at three different locations, so only one is televised. I think it rotates. Same with the boys. So if your school makes it to state on a non-televised year, you are out of luck. You either go in person, or hopefully there is a radio broadcast. Personally, I think that kind of setup is terrible for everyone. I don't think anyone in North Dakota would want that.
If we'd ever go to three classes you'd have to do it in a way that still allows for at least semifinal/final broadcasts like the Super A.

[winner-within]

Thats why the thread is "almost" ......almost only counts in Horseshoes and Hand Grenades
It will never happen in ND

[heimer]

4 remain.

1 B team.

1 A team that bullies through the region annually.

2 AA teams that recruit.

Wait for it........

[heimer]

Boys small town champ: Fargo

Girls: Bismarck or Minot

Wait for it...........

[B-oldtimer]

If you're applying that something is going to change structure of class b basketball I think public opinion is beginning to build. Private schools out of Fargo, Bismarck, Minot, and Dickinson are beginning to dominate class b tournament in basketball and then you add large class b schools to that list there's not much left for small class b school its like NCAA tournament if you win its like honor to go but usually its one done or maybe you win one but still not much chance to get to championship. I just don't see activities association changing system because of tv revenue and would be hard to get tv to buy another state tournament. One thing they could do is move all private schools to Class A level or let them form their own league but once they do that appeal of going to private schools drop for these schools. They won't get recognition and will be playing teams with equal talent and depth so their advantage is gone that they enjoy in the class b ranks. It does always amazes me cities of Fargo/West Fargo they have at least 7500 highschool kids and they have 6 highschool teams so you say they have 35 kids for each of these teams or total of 210 to say 250 kids participating out of 3600 for each boys and girls or about 6.5% of school. If they were like class b schools for participation they would have about 1200 kids playing enough support about 24 teams they would have enough for whole league of their own just in Fargo area alone. Just a thought and if schools were totally interested involving large percentage of students and not just for select few sports .

[justplayalready]

I also think the tipping point has been hit...Will GBB be the final straw(Minot's pending win record )that finally gets the privates put in A where they belong...

Can we constructively talk about an expanded A with 32-48 teams, 8 regions????

[heimer]

Wait for it........

[ndlionsfan]

Just remember that we are just one year removed from milnor winning the boys. The sky is not falling people.

[bequickdonthurry]

Heimer, you're idea is worth a look. We just need to get someone else to think its their idea in order for it to even have a chance.

[minotguy715]

Yep, lets water down the Class B that much more, lets have 3 classes..........NOT!!!!!!! And I originally come from a small town, and still never believed in 3 classes, and my hometown has only been to state 4 times in its history. Only 2 times in last 40 yrs.

[radball]

Like it or not, ND will have to do a 3 class system very soon,actually in my thoughts, I think they should already be doing it, based on pure population growth(yes I know its based on school enrollement,but). And regards to the crowd at the fargo dome this year, wow, very poor showing every day, or at least compared to last years numbers, based on what I saw and what other fans said. Side note to, the PA announcer was HORRIBLE this year, except the last game. hard to hear and just sucked in general. Just a side note, the thing that has really hurt high school sports is the parents(not all parents think their kids should be starting or playing more but) hard to get quality coaching when you have parents sitting in the stands at practice and sending nasty emails to coachs on how to coach, what good coach would put up with that in high school? I think all states need to start addressing this issue for the kids sake.

[east sider]

I've read heimer's idea before, didn't like it, but forgot how it goes and am too lazy to re-read and argue. So I'm gonna come up with my own idea. We know if any larger school makes state certain people flip out and cry "NOT FAIR!". So why not have a separate State Tournament (we'll just call it the "C") for the runner-up of each region. If the runner-up was a big school that got upset, obviously they can't be invited so it'll end up going to the 3rd place finisher, after all that's only fair! I'm thinking alternate between DL and Jamestown for location. We can even have a parade of champions for all the runner-ups, UNLESS of course they are from a bigger school or private. Maybe a separate all-state team as well for Class C. This idea saves time of re-creating 3 classes and making different schedules and what not that I believe heimer suggested we do. boom

[minotguy715]

I've read heimer's idea before, didn't like it, but forgot how it goes and am too lazy to re-read and argue. So I'm gonna come up with my own idea. We know if any larger school makes state certain people flip out and cry "NOT FAIR!". So why not have a separate State Tournament (we'll just call it the "C") for the runner-up of each region. If the runner-up was a big school that got upset, obviously they can't be invited so it'll end up going to the 3rd place finisher, after all that's only fair! I'm thinking alternate between DL and Jamestown for location. We can even have a parade of champions for all the runner-ups, UNLESS of course they are from a bigger school or private. Maybe a separate all-state team as well for Class C. This idea saves time of re-creating 3 classes and making different schedules and what not that I believe heimer suggested we do. boom

I know you are being sarcastic, but like your thinking, if nothing else it would show how watered down 3 class system would be.........This from a guy originally from small town ND.

[heimer]

Again, quick recap:

Expand A
Split it into two divisions (top 12 and next 12, top 14 and next 14, whatever)
All schools without defined districts A bottom division
Each division sends 4 to State A tourney.

Waters down B? NO
Adds excitement? YES
Levels playing field? YES

Boy, must be a bad idea, since the ENTIRE STATE JUST WENT CRAZY WHEN NDSU BEAT OKLAHOMA! ITS THE SAME THING PEOPLE!

[The Schwab]

Again, quick recap:

Expand A
Split it into two divisions (top 12 and next 12, top 14 and next 14, whatever)
All schools without defined districts A bottom division
Each division sends 4 to State A tourney.

Waters down B? NO
Adds excitement? YES
Levels playing field? YES

Boy, must be a bad idea, since the ENTIRE STATE JUST WENT CRAZY WHEN NDSU BEAT OKLAHOMA! ITS THE SAME THING PEOPLE!

Totally agree with this

[heimer]

I don't have a tremendous amount of time to devote to this today, but based on a very quick look through DPI numbers for this year, here's what 32 teams A, split into 16 top enrollments in Division I and the bottom 16 in Division II, split again into regional assignments would look like.

In this scenario, each region sends 2 teams to state. Pairings would be:

I E 2nd vs. II W 1st
I W 1st. vs. II E 2nd
I E 1st. vs. II W 2nd
I W 2nd. vs. II E 1st

Division I East:
Fargo North
Fargo South
Fargo Davies
West Fargo
Sheyenne (WF2)
Red River
Central
Belcourt

Division I West:
Bismarck
Century
New Bismarck (is it Legacy?)
Mandan
Dickinson
Williston
Minot
Jamestown

Division II East:
Devils Lake
Wahpeton
Shanley
Valley City
Oak Grove
Grafton
Central Cass
Kindred

Division II West:
St. Marys
Shiloh
Trinity
Bishop Ryan
Our Redeemers
Trinity Christian
Beulah
Watford City

Before, someone had made the comment that, even with the un-defined district, they could not make a case for Trinity Christian and Our Redeemers in this group. Next up: New Town and Bottineau. Next up: Stanley and Hazen. Just food for thought.

[lovwatchingsports]

Yep, lets water down the Class B that much more, lets have 3 classes..........NOT!!!!!!! And I originally come from a small town, and still never believed in 3 classes, and my hometown has only been to state 4 times in its history. Only 2 times in last 40 yrs.

I will be that there are towns out there that have never been to state.