Almost There

[Indy5]

My point was less about travel and more about the fact that they'd have 15 teams for 19 games. Yeah, they can play teams outside of their class for 12 of the 19 games, but isn't that kind of defeating the purpose?

[Bisonguy06]

Heimer,
I'd personally like to get away from the whole idea that a regional or state tournament berth is 'earned' if it's a small school and it's 'stolen' if it's a big B or private school. Nevertheless, the bigs and parochials don't have an automatic 'bye' into the regional tournament.

The Lisbon boys missed the regional tournament.
The Kindred boys missed the regional tournament (two consecutive losses in the district tourney)
The Bottineau boys missed the regional tournament (two consecutive losses in the district tourney)
The New Town boys missed the regional tournament.
The Stanley boys missed the regional tournament.
The Williston Trinity Christian boys missed the regional tournament (two consecutive losses in districts)
The Oak Grove girls missed the regional tournament.
The Larimore girls missed the regional tournament
The Bottineau girls missed the regional tournament.
The DesLacs-Burlington girls missed the regional tournament.
The Williston Trinity Christian girls missed the regional tournament.

[heimer]

Indy, they'd have 7 games in the region, and more if they choose to play them.

They would also have regular season games to consider that aren't an option right now. Grafton, siting your example, could now play Central, Red River, or any of the 5 Fargo-area schools in the regular season.

As per the Grafton scenario, here is a totally off-the-top-of-my-head schedule that would be pretty bada$$

@Kindred
Central Cass
@Wahpeton
Valley City
Shanley
@Oak Grove
Lisbon
Cavalier
@Langdon
Park River
@Midway-Minto
Grand Forks Central
@Devils Lake

This leaves five games. I don't know, maybe a North Border, a Carrington, and a tournament? Whatever. The point is the system leaves a ton of flexibility for new teams, traditional rivalries, and unique opportunities, all with a better, more challenging regular season schedule.

Bisonguy, your details are a lot like bikinis. What they reveal is enticing, but what they conceal is vital.

Could you please enlighten us on the following:

Central Cass over the past ten years
Kindred over the past ten years
Oak Grove over the past ten years
Carrington over the past ten years
Grafton over the past ten years
Bottineau over the past ten years
Rugby over the past ten years
Beulah over the past ten years
Hazen over the past ten years
Dickinson Trinity over the past ten years
Minot Ryan over the past ten years

20 shots at regionals for each of these teams over the past 10 years. I'm guessing a low score is 14. A low score. Some, perhaps half, of these teams will be perfect or within a game of perfect. That's indicates a middle.

[NoIinTeam]

Let's talk fairness.
How about any team, regardless of size, that has kids that can walk and chew gum at the same time be allowed into a regional tournament. Sounds fair to me.
One thing that's not fair for kids in large schools is there is much less opportunity to be on varsity, let alone start, for more than 2 years. Is that fair?
Is it fair that if an average athlete from a large school, who received little playing time, could probably attend some smaller schools and get more playing time?
Is it fair that more small town kids (percentage wise) get to participate in more sports for their school than the large school kids?
Maybe some of the small town kids don't get as many opportunities to move further on in tournaments, but in most cases they get to participate in varsity athletics way longer than the average large school athlete.
If things need to be more fair let's not stop at a three class system. I say go for 4 or 5 classes. Let's change this broken system and really water it down. No one enjoys watching David defeating Goliath. Right?
Let's make sure every kid makes it to regionals regardless of athletic talent, coaching, or off season work by the athletes.
I want to teach our kids that everything in life is fair and they should be rewarded for everything they do.
As a kid I was taught that not everything in life is fair. That's just the way it is. According to some I guess I was taught wrong.

[Bisonguy06]

Indy, they'd have 7 games in the region, and more if they choose to play them.

They would also have regular season games to consider that aren't an option right now. Grafton, siting your example, could now play Central, Red River, or any of the 5 Fargo-area schools in the regular season.

As per the Grafton scenario, here is a totally off-the-top-of-my-head schedule that would be pretty bada$$

@Kindred
Central Cass
@Wahpeton
Valley City
Shanley
@Oak Grove
Lisbon
Cavalier
@Langdon
Park River
@Midway-Minto
Grand Forks Central
@Devils Lake

This leaves five games. I don't know, maybe a North Border, a Carrington, and a tournament? Whatever. The point is the system leaves a ton of flexibility for new teams, traditional rivalries, and unique opportunities, all with a better, more challenging regular season schedule.

Bisonguy, your details are a lot like bikinis. What they reveal is enticing, but what they conceal is vital.

Could you please enlighten us on the following:

Central Cass over the past ten years
Kindred over the past ten years
Oak Grove over the past ten years
Carrington over the past ten years
Grafton over the past ten years
Bottineau over the past ten years
Rugby over the past ten years
Beulah over the past ten years
Hazen over the past ten years
Dickinson Trinity over the past ten years
Minot Ryan over the past ten years

20 shots at regionals for each of these teams over the past 10 years. I'm guessing a low score is 14. A low score. Some, perhaps half, of these teams will be perfect or within a game of perfect. That's indicates a middle.

Heimer,
Loved the line about bikinis. Well done, sir.

No argument from me that those programs have been very successful.

I noticed a couple things about your list:
1) Schools are not listed in order of enrollment
2) Some parochials are listed, but not others
3) There are less than 16 schools in your list.

I'm trying to help you establish your 'middle.' If you're asking me to do all this research for you, you could at least give me the actual list of schools in the 'middle' of your Super 2 plan, rather than some hand-picked list of schools that are definitely successful but may or may not actually fit in your plan.

Keep in mind, we have a district where 80% of schools make the regional tournament, and several others where 67% make the regional. We have schools of all sizes advancing on a regular basis. Making the regional tournament isn't the rare achievement that it used to be for any school.

[heimer]

Bisonguy, as discussed on this form already, the NDHSAA book is by no means trustworthy. Any book that lists their numbers as some 7-12, some 9-12, some 10-12 has no value of info.

I went to the football plan, and used an estimate that 50% of a school's students are male, half are female, then doubled the male enrollment, and included that value below. Yes, yes, I know, some are female heavy. I also allowed for the new schools we KNOW (not speculate, know) are coming online. In those cases, I took the current 7-10 enrollments of the current base schools, added those numbers, and divided by the future number of schools (In West Fargo's case, their current enrollment divided by 2, and in Bismarck's case, the combined enrollments of Bismarck and Century divided by 3. I think the numbers bear out two things:

1. There is certainly strong evidence of a "middle".
2. The evidence is strong enough to validate an NDHSAA investigation/discussion.

AA
Minot (2106)
Red River (1146)
Bismarck 1 (1183)
Bismarck 2 (1183)
Bismarck 3 (1183)
West Fargo 1 (1098)
West Fargo 2 (1098)
South (1124)
Davies (1148)
Mandan (1090)
North (1052)
Central (1026)
Williston (954)
Jamestown (814)
Dickison (802)
Belcourt (578)

A
Devils Lake (536)
Wahpeton (390)
Valley City (322)
Shanley (322)
St. Marys (318)
Grafton (272)
Beulah (254)
Watford City (254)
Standing Rock (250)
Central Cass (248)
Dickinson Trinity (no defined district)
Fargo Oak Grove (no defined district)
Minot Ryan (no defined district)
Shiloh Christian (no defined district)
Minot Our Redeemers (no defined district)
Williston Trinity Christian (no defined district)

There has been talk about Our Redeemers and Williston TC being too small to survive this plan. I posted previously that a provision could be included that the NDHSAA B of D can vote to opt them down in favor of the next two largest schools. Next in would be Kindred (244) and Lisbon (222).

You made a previous statement that you could only find 12 schools between 200-650. I found 13, but whatever. However, your statement does nothing but protect the private schools, whom benefit from the quality of student they have enrolled in a clearly higher fashion than your typical public school. I don't think you'll get much opposition of including Trinity, Ryan, and Oak Grove in this list. That middle is clearly there, even by your suggested 200-650, and the top end here is south of 600.

To really gum up the argument, lets do this.

1. AA will consist of either the top 16 enrollments, or all schools with enrollments of 600 or more, whatever number is greater. (If Devils Lake gets bigger or signs a co-op, they're moving up)
2. Next 16 A, and will always include every school with no defined district, unless:
a) that school/district opts up to AA
b) a majority of the members of the NDHSAA Board of Directors vote to move a school with no defined district to the B division.
3. Should teams opt up from A to AA, they will NOT be replaced by smaller schools to fill the class.
4. Should a team be moved down from A to B, they will be replaced by the next largest enrolled school
5. All else is B

By the way, I can see that, if these numbers are accurate, the current 7-10 enrollment of Valley City, 322, will fall below the 325 threshold in two years, allowing them to drop to B status. Would I still be in favor of the plan above? Absolutely. This is better than what we have now. Better games in the regular season, more flexibility, more opportunity.

[winner-within]

Bisonguy, as discussed on this form already, the NDHSAA book is by no means trustworthy. Any book that lists their numbers as some 7-12, some 9-12, some 10-12 has no value of info.

I went to the football plan, and used an estimate that 50% of a school's students are male, half are female, then doubled the male enrollment, and included that value below. Yes, yes, I know, some are female heavy. I also allowed for the new schools we KNOW (not speculate, know) are coming online. In those cases, I took the current 7-10 enrollments of the current base schools, added those numbers, and divided by the future number of schools (In West Fargo's case, their current enrollment divided by 2, and in Bismarck's case, the combined enrollments of Bismarck and Century divided by 3. I think the numbers bear out two things:

1. There is certainly strong evidence of a "middle".
2. The evidence is strong enough to validate an NDHSAA investigation/discussion.

AA
Minot (2106)
Red River (1146)
Bismarck 1 (1183)
Bismarck 2 (1183)
Bismarck 3 (1183)
West Fargo 1 (1098)
West Fargo 2 (1098)
South (1124)
Davies (1148)
Mandan (1090)
North (1052)
Central (1026)
Williston (954)
Jamestown (814)
Dickison (802)
Belcourt (578)

A
Devils Lake (536)
Wahpeton (390)
Valley City (322)
Shanley (322)
St. Marys (318)
Grafton (272)
Beulah (254)
Watford City (254)
Standing Rock (250)
Central Cass (248)
Dickinson Trinity (no defined district)
Fargo Oak Grove (no defined district)
Minot Ryan (no defined district)
Shiloh Christian (no defined district)
Minot Our Redeemers (no defined district)
Williston Trinity Christian (no defined district)

There has been talk about Our Redeemers and Williston TC being too small to survive this plan. I posted previously that a provision could be included that the NDHSAA B of D can vote to opt them down in favor of the next two largest schools. Next in would be Kindred (244) and Lisbon (222).

You made a previous statement that you could only find 12 schools between 200-650. I found 13, but whatever. However, your statement does nothing but protect the private schools, whom benefit from the quality of student they have enrolled in a clearly higher fashion than your typical public school. I don't think you'll get much opposition of including Trinity, Ryan, and Oak Grove in this list. That middle is clearly there, even by your suggested 200-650, and the top end here is south of 600.

To really gum up the argument, lets do this.

1. AA will consist of either the top 16 enrollments, or all schools with enrollments of 600 or more, whatever number is greater. (If Devils Lake gets bigger or signs a co-op, they're moving up)
2. Next 16 A, and will always include every school with no defined district, unless:
a) that school/district opts up to AA
b) a majority of the members of the NDHSAA Board of Directors vote to move a school with no defined district to the B division.
3. Should teams opt up from A to AA, they will NOT be replaced by smaller schools to fill the class.
4. Should a team be moved down from A to B, they will be replaced by the next largest enrolled school
5. All else is B

By the way, I can see that, if these numbers are accurate, the current 7-10 enrollment of Valley City, 322, will fall below the 325 threshold in two years, allowing them to drop to B status. Would I still be in favor of the plan above? Absolutely. This is better than what we have now. Better games in the regular season, more flexibility, more opportunity.

Belcourt Has to be in A...or does your plan not care about certain schools?

[ndlionsfan]

I agree with winner. They don't belong with those schools listed in AA. Or did you just pick the top 16 to make the scheduling easier? Remember, you threw a fit about the football plan having a certain number in AAA just for scheduling purposes when a school clearly didn't belong.

[heimer]

First of all, there is no ease of scheduling driving this. Come on people. I included no scheduling rules at all.

Second, Winner, you're kind of an idiot to take that tone. I will go back to the VC argument. They have 200 less kids, but you would make no exception for them. Why now for Belcourt. Because they are native American? Smells like reverse racism to me. If VC is fairly in A today, with one West Fargo and two Bismarcks, Belcourt is fairly in the top of this plan.

But fine, I'll give. Lets let the BOD decide:

1: AA wil include the top 16 enrollments or all schools with enrollments of 600 or greater, unless:
a) A majority of the members of the NDHSAA Board of Directors votes to move to the A division any school in which 60% or more of its current enrollment qualifies for free and reduced meals.

b) Should the BOD vote to move such a school to the A division, the next largest school not currently in the AA division will take its place. (Peer groups are better than cutoffs. Its either Belcourt or Devils Lake.

Note: If you also apply this standard to A, Standing Rock out, enter Kindred.

[winner-within]

First of all, there is no ease of scheduling driving this. Come on people. I included no scheduling rules at all.

Second, Winner, you're kind of an idiot to take that tone. I will go back to the VC argument. They have 200 less kids, but you would make no exception for them. Why now for Belcourt. Because they are native American? Smells like reverse racism to me. If VC is fairly in A today, with one West Fargo and two Bismarcks, Belcourt is fairly in the top of this plan.

But fine, I'll give. Lets let the BOD decide:

1: AA wil include the top 16 enrollments or all schools with enrollments of 600 or greater, unless:
a) A majority of the members of the NDHSAA Board of Directors votes to move to the A division any school in which 60% or more of its current enrollment qualifies for free and reduced meals.

b) Should the BOD vote to move such a school to the A division, the next largest school not currently in the AA division will take its place. (Peer groups are better than cutoffs. Its either Belcourt or Devils Lake.

Note: If you also apply this standard to A, Standing Rock out, enter Kindred.

I dont recall a VC argument ?? Are you that scared they would win it to many times for you to handle....have they ever won the A now in the last 30 years?? nope but you wanna have more fun??....just like my one class point, VC isn't a threat year in and year out to B hinging on 300 so if I was ever worried yep I'm an Idiot .........BOD decide?? you said they cant make a decision now

[ndlionsfan]

I don't believe DL fits either. My point was, why not just leave at 15? They are the group that most closely resembles each other. Also allows for the possibility if Minot ever adds another high school.

[Bisonguy06]

Heimer,

I may never agree that class B is broken, but this isn't a bad plan by any means. It will help your 'middle' argument that we have new schools on the way at the top end, allowing other schools to slide back to the 'middle.' If Minot would split in two, the dividing line between AA and A would fit in a pretty nice place, actually. Right now, Belcourt looks like a bit of a lone ranger in AA.

You have to acknowledge that we have gaps in enrollment in North Dakota, based on your own numbers.
0 schools between 600-800
2 schools between 400-800
6 schools between 300-800
10 schools between 250-800
Just nod your head and concede this one small point, please. Now let's move on.

I think AA would be competitive. I think A would be competitive, with the exception of Our Redeemers and Williston Trinity Christian, with apologies to those schools. I think B would be competitive.

I do think you're trying to have it both ways by saying that ND has a 'middle,' but at the same time, 'A' overlaps with AA. In other words, "A" is the middle, but it doesn't function as its own class. Hmm...

I think you've got some convincing to do to get people to believe that the teams that you're moving up to 'A' would be competitive with the rest of A and with AA on a regular basis.

AA divides pretty neatly into an east and a west, 8 and 8.

'A' doesn't shake out quite so smoothly. As it stands, 9 of 16 teams are clearly western teams, and you'd be sending one Bismarck or Minot team (but not the other) to the east to have balance. 'A' could split north & south and be balanced, but teams would really put on the miles. Not a deal-breaker, but this needs some work. Fair enough?

Your plan hinges on your definition of schools with "no defined district". It's a slick way of saying that the parochial schools have built-in advantages, which I won't argue. The question is whether it's OK and whether it's legal, in an open-enrollment state, to exclude all parochial schools from 'B' even if their enrollment would put them in 'B' otherwise.

In a previous plan, the NDHSAA advised its membership that a 1.4 weighted factor on private school enrollment likely would not survive a legal challenge. Your plan has a slightly different wrinkle. Would it pass that legal test? I'm not sure.

I think this is a reasonable analysis of your plan. Your turn to go.

[Bisonguy06]

You do have a lot of rules to your plan, heimer...
1) Top 16 in AA
2) No parochials in B
2a) NDHSAA board can vote to move parochials down to B, one at a time
3) Next 16 in A
3a) Possible adjustments to AA based on free and reduced lunch data
3b) Possible adjustments to A based on free and reduced lunch data
4) Schools can opt up, but not down
5) Remaining schools in B.
6) AA and A compete against each other for a championship, kind of. They are kind of separate, too.

Lots of rules require lots of explaining...

Back in the good ol' days, schools above 325 were A, schools below 325 were B. Opt up if you want to. Simple rules for simple people, I guess.

[heimer]

Got time for one reply before I head out for the gym.

Winner, do you know anything about the NDHSAA? You failed to answer a single point and you clearly not versed on the options of the BOD. As the constitution reads at this very moment, the BOD could implement this plan upon their vote, with no vote of the schools. The constitution was amended to state that 325 would be the classification cutoff in any activity "with two divisions of competition." As was stated word for word by a key superintendent behind the amendment, the wording was written specifically to allow the BOD options to research and implement three divisions of competition."

I'm not saying you should read up and know what you're talking about. I'm saying you should read up and know what you're talking about, or perhaps not talk. Good to have options.

Bisonguy:

I don't know what you want here. Sure, you have the number of schools in those enrollment ranges correct. Those ranges mean nothing to anyone but you. There isn't a single enrollment range spelled out for football, and it works. To add to that, we have an enrollment range for other activities, but we suspend it for coops I several sports, wrestling, track, and softball to name a few, with baseball coming (These policies allo host schools to add coops that push the enrollment above 325 but continue to play class B). We have one class of hockey. Enrollment ranges seem to only affect two sports. You seem to have a hang up on your own made up enrollment ranges. I'm sure I can find substantial ranges if done another way. How about AA is 500 or more, A is 125-499, and the rest is B? Yah! All kinds of schools in each range, and I think it would be fine, but not nearly as good as this. This plan increases competition, allows flexibility, and preserves a substantial B division for at least 25 years. At that point, we will likely want something else. After, it's been 22 years since the North Star.

The point is that enrollment ranges have already been rendered outdated by the current NDHSAA. What's your hang up?

As far as the overlap, I've said many times I would prefer three separate tourneys. But the main resistance behind a three-class plan has been TV coverage. So, we are left with two options. Either a combined AA one weekend, a combined A the next, and a combined B to finish, or separate B tourneys and a tournament that handles the AA and A on the same weekend. I'd be okay with either, and, getting back to the top of the thread, after seeing the attendance at this years B girls, I think the idea we can't host a combined B in one spot is off base. I would love that atmosphere. But we were told it could not be done. So this is the next best thing.

As far as no defined districts: Parochials can sue all they want. In the end, the NDHSAA is a voluntary membership organization, not mandatory. They can choose not to be members, but members are subject to the policies of the organization, and they can vote on those policies. This is analogous to the Fighting Sioux issue. The NCAA was determined to be voluntary membership. UND had no standing to sue an organization they did not have to be a part of. Exclusion from NDHSAA membership does not bar a school from offering an activity. They can play any school that will schedule them (Fargo schools play Moorhead, Dickinson and Williston play Montana schools). They just can't play for an NDHSAA state championship. Our state government does not sponsor state tournaments. There is no standing to sue the NDHSAA over classification.

Finally, there are no rules here that are not in place elsewhere. Divisions defined like football, free and reduced meals like football, BOD hearling appeals like in any sport, opting up is included. The only rule is no being reassigned down if someone opts up. You're in your peer group as designed. So, in fact, is is simpler than what we currently have in football, and in a way, simpler than creating new rules every time a b coop in something else wants to move beyond 325 and still stay B.

Your enrollment ranges, pulled completely out of thin air, are wayyyyyy more complex.

[Bisonguy06]

P.S. Heimer, how much is Preps paying you to help increase traffic on their website? You do a heck of a job of that, and you truly deserve some sort of stipend.

I'm the idiot who called for a two year hiatus on this whole topic after Milnor won state. I bet Preps is thankful that you came along.

[heimer]

People tend to react to passion. They further tend to react to that passion with more passion. I see this plan in my mind. I see state tournament at the B level where none of the usual suspects are there because there are no usual suspects. I see AA-A where Central Cass shocks the world by beating BIsmarck High, taking a title right out of the hands of the metros. Anything can happe in a one-game playoff.

We gotta get to that game.

I have passion for this. The rest is just humans being humans.

And I receive no money, but I'll gladly take it. Kid needs diapers.......and college.

[Bisonguy06]

That's all fine Heimer, but it sounds a little koom bye yah to me.

Milnor (not a usual suspect) slayed the giants and won state this year. Seven of the eight regions on the boys side sent new region champions this year. The girls tournament had eight different schools/teams than the boys tournament. We had plenty of new blood this year. It's not always the usual suspects.

Central Cass over Bismarck High would be awesome to watch, but so was Milnor over Four Winds. We ought to be able to agree on that.

[heimer]

Four Winds is not Bismarck. Milnor had a nice run, but that 4th place finish at the BCT is an eyesore.

That's immaterial, however.

Minot Ryan went unbeaten in girls, and everything the boys was the girls wasnt. Factor in the usuals in the regionals on both sides, along with blowout regular season games on both sides, and the season is still a net negative for me.

I'm glad you enjoyed state. That enjoyment doesn't work against my point, however. It aids it. We are a state that has placed one genders tourney over another, and placed one week above the three months that come first. No state tournament is good enough to address the system.

To quote Paul Newman from "The Color of Money,", its even but it isn't settled.

[winner-within]

Minot Ryan went unbeaten in girls, and everything the boys was the girls wasnt. Factor in the usuals in the regionals on both sides, along with blowout regular season games on both sides, and the season is still a net negative for me.

Got time for one reply before I head out for the gym.

Winner, do you know anything about the NDHSAA? You failed to answer a single point and you clearly not versed on the options of the BOD. As the constitution reads at this very moment, the BOD could implement this plan upon their vote, with no vote of the schools. The constitution was amended to state that 325 would be the classification cutoff in any activity "with two divisions of competition." As was stated word for word by a key superintendent behind the amendment, the wording was written specifically to allow the BOD options to research and implement three divisions of competition."

I'm not saying you should read up and know what you're talking about. I'm saying you should read up and know what you're talking about, or perhaps not talk. Good to have options.

Bisonguy:

I don't know what you want here. Sure, you have the number of schools in those enrollment ranges correct. Those ranges mean nothing to anyone but you. There isn't a single enrollment range spelled out for football, and it works. To add to that, we have an enrollment range for other activities, but we suspend it for coops I several sports, wrestling, track, and softball to name a few, with baseball coming (These policies allo host schools to add coops that push the enrollment above 325 but continue to play class B). We have one class of hockey. Enrollment ranges seem to only affect two sports. You seem to have a hang up on your own made up enrollment ranges. I'm sure I can find substantial ranges if done another way. How about AA is 500 or more, A is 125-499, and the rest is B? Yah! All kinds of schools in each range, and I think it would be fine, but not nearly as good as this. This plan increases competition, allows flexibility, and preserves a substantial B division for at least 25 years. At that point, we will likely want something else. After, it's been 22 years since the North Star.

The point is that enrollment ranges have already been rendered outdated by the current NDHSAA. What's your hang up?

As far as the overlap, I've said many times I would prefer three separate tourneys. But the main resistance behind a three-class plan has been TV coverage. So, we are left with two options. Either a combined AA one weekend, a combined A the next, and a combined B to finish, or separate B tourneys and a tournament that handles the AA and A on the same weekend. I'd be okay with either, and, getting back to the top of the thread, after seeing the attendance at this years B girls, I think the idea we can't host a combined B in one spot is off base. I would love that atmosphere. But we were told it could not be done. So this is the next best thing.

As far as no defined districts: Parochials can sue all they want. In the end, the NDHSAA is a voluntary membership organization, not mandatory. They can choose not to be members, but members are subject to the policies of the organization, and they can vote on those policies. This is analogous to the Fighting Sioux issue. The NCAA was determined to be voluntary membership. UND had no standing to sue an organization they did not have to be a part of. Exclusion from NDHSAA membership does not bar a school from offering an activity. They can play any school that will schedule them (Fargo schools play Moorhead, Dickinson and Williston play Montana schools). They just can't play for an NDHSAA state championship. Our state government does not sponsor state tournaments. There is no standing to sue the NDHSAA over classification.

Finally, there are no rules here that are not in place elsewhere. Divisions defined like football, free and reduced meals like football, BOD hearling appeals like in any sport, opting up is included. The only rule is no being reassigned down if someone opts up. You're in your peer group as designed. So, in fact, is is simpler than what we currently have in football, and in a way, simpler than creating new rules every time a b coop in something else wants to move beyond 325 and still stay B.

Your enrollment ranges, pulled completely out of thin air, are wayyyyyy more complex.

I think I bested the ultrahuman who thinks he's the best (just by mentioning Belcourt?? come on man).....I know Basketball (you dont)....read up on NDHSAA?? OK
I also sence that the NDHSAA is out of your reach (which really upsets you, was your dream to be a Supt??) .......You propose plans to them (rough draft them here) and when they're applied if you dont enjoy the Games then, blame it on humans being humans....because our kids are human...theyre not like you and I lol.............dont question my intelligence.... Common sense and a set are my main attributes....

[heimer]

Winner,

um.......what?

Yep, you nailed it. I wanted to be a super, and they wouldn't let me. My only reason for being here is an axe to grind.

And if you think you know basketball, I'm looking for that knowledge to be displayed with better posts than, "Belcourt needs to be A, or do you not care about certain schools." There's that basketball wisdom shining through.

If you feel so strongly about Belcourt, why are you not petitioning for them to be moved down now? As I stated, they are playing Class A with two Bismarck schools and one West Fargo school. I give you three Bismarcks and two West Fargo's and that's when you think they should be moved down.

Keep displaying that basketball knowledge, winner. You're apparently a winner in name only.

[Bisonguy06]

Heimer,

Minot Ryan running the table is the equivalent of a Bismarck High rolling through the AA/A tournaments, which would certainly happen from time to time.

The class B regular season, districts, & regionals had their moments. Maybe you slept through it, but not everyone did. This will shock you though: I could support a "Super B" state tournament with boys and girls combined. I think that would be an improvement and a way to resolve the gender equity issue you're referring to.

[winner-within]

Belcourt isn't my concern Hyme (I still would like to know why you freaked out and called a reverse race card) why would I care what race they are....enrollment is enrollment, so from 802 down to 576 it looked odd....

and you dont follow my post's (so how would you know what I know) and I certainly dont follow yours, I haven't read one of your post in this thread all the way through.....Why?? because its a Brain Fart

MN has 5,000,000 people as an example, ND has 660,000.........which is just enough to support 2 football classes and either 2 BBall or 1 BBall which I'm for....1 rule follows the 1 class proposal......

Rules:
1. Close the old schools full of Mold and Silverfish and build centrally located new ones and force consolidation and hinder co-ops (now am I really every administrators dream??)

Note: focus on infrastructure and not only will the games get better but so will the moral building Education environments for both staff and students..

[The Schwab]

Heimer,

Minot Ryan running the table is the equivalent of a Bismarck High rolling through the AA/A tournaments, which would certainly happen from time to time.

The class B regular season, districts, & regionals had their moments. Maybe you slept through it, but not everyone did. This will shock you though: I could support a "Super B" state tournament with boys and girls combined. I think that would be an improvement and a way to resolve the gender equity issue you're referring to.

I don't like this idea at all, because then only the semi's and finals would be on TV, I also don't like the Super A, I think each tournament should have it's own weekend. Just my opinion. But then again switching the girls season back to the fall would fix this.

[packers21]

Heimer,

Minot Ryan running the table is the equivalent of a Bismarck High rolling through the AA/A tournaments, which would certainly happen from time to time.

The class B regular season, districts, & regionals had their moments. Maybe you slept through it, but not everyone did. This will shock you though: I could support a "Super B" state tournament with boys and girls combined. I think that would be an improvement and a way to resolve the gender equity issue you're referring to.

I don't like this idea at all, because then only the semi's and finals would be on TV, I also don't like the Super A, I think each tournament should have it's own weekend. Just my opinion. But then again switching the girls season back to the fall would fix this.

I think Schwab hit the nail on the head. If we would just switch the girls season back to the fall, I think a lot of the problems would be fixed.

[Hinsa]

Heimer - I'll pay you triple what I make for being a moderator if you will continue to generate traffic on the site!