Almost There

Class B Girls
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Re: Almost There

Postby heimer » Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:59 am

I was just waiting with baited breath for that reply.

I'm not saying B titles are meaningless. I'm saying B TITLES WON BY A SCHOOLS MASQUERADING AS B SCHOOLS are meaningless.

If Minot Ryan fans think their program can compete for WDA titles, their B state titles are meaningless.
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Re: Almost There

Postby digger » Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:19 am

heimer wrote:I was just waiting with baited breath for that reply.

I'm not saying B titles are meaningless. I'm saying B TITLES WON BY A SCHOOLS MASQUERADING AS B SCHOOLS are meaningless.

If Minot Ryan fans think their program can compete for WDA titles, their B state titles are meaningless.


Were Mayville-Portland-CG's titles in the mid 90's meaningless as well? At least one of those teams was thought by many to be the best team in the state regardless of class. I know Coach Kessler and the players would have been confident they could have competed for an A title.
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Re: Almost There

Postby heimer » Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:54 am

Then compete for one.

FACT: It is the choice of every Class B school in the state to compete at the A level. For decades, people pick their Class B Darling of the Year and say, "Yep, they're better than the A teams," with absolutely no level of comparison.

It must be nice to live a complete fantasy, where you can beat your chest about how good you are, then stow away from the top level and rack up another 20 wins.

Put your money where your mouth is. Schedule a Class A team. If Minot Ryan is that good, then I want to see them play Minot and Bismarck in the regular season. Otherwise, the claim that they would compete for a WDA title is worthless.

How many A teams did MPCG play to establish validity as the "best in the state"?
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Re: Almost There

Postby Flying Wallenda » Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:56 am

heimer wrote:I was just waiting with baited breath for that reply.

I'm not saying B titles are meaningless. I'm saying B TITLES WON BY A SCHOOLS MASQUERADING AS B SCHOOLS are meaningless.

If Minot Ryan fans think their program can compete for WDA titles, their B state titles are meaningless.


So, Ryan's enrollment is LESS than Valley's, they have a phenomenal run of athletes, think they can compete in the class A level = meaningless state title.

Valley has a poor run of athletes, enrollment HIGHER than Ryan's, can't compete at the A level, move them to class B. Are they NOT MASQUERADING because of the poor run of talent? Shame on Ryan for being below the cut off line and being so successful. And in no way, shape or form am I for Ryan or the parochials in general, just wondering where you thought the line should have been drawn. Is it by enrollment, or success?
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Re: Almost There

Postby Flying Wallenda » Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:58 am

heimer wrote:Then compete for one.

FACT: It is the choice of every Class B school in the state to compete at the A level. For decades, people pick their Class B Darling of the Year and say, "Yep, they're better than the A teams," with absolutely no level of comparison.

It must be nice to live a complete fantasy, where you can beat your chest about how good you are, then stow away from the top level and rack up another 20 wins.

Put your money where your mouth is. Schedule a Class A team. If Minot Ryan is that good, then I want to see them play Minot and Bismarck in the regular season. Otherwise, the claim that they would compete for a WDA title is worthless.

How many A teams did MPCG play to establish validity as the "best in the state"?

I bet the Schwab could answer this one. I think they beat Sartell out of Minnesota and perhaps Shanley? Many years ago.....
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Re: Almost There

Postby fandb » Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:03 pm

Heimer Heimer Heimer,
We all know the bigs wont play the littles, nothing to gain and all to lose.
However, I think if you made a call to the West Fargo Coach and the Minot High coach, you may find out that Ryan girls can more than compete.
No one is MASQUERADING. I believe Ryan has challenged the states leaders in softball, not opting to play in B because of competiton. (Nothing against B, that level is developing) Ryan also ops up in football, but from what I here their numbers may prohibit that in the future.
I bet if you could convince a class A to play, they would load the bus.
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Re: Almost There

Postby packers21 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:02 pm

heimer wrote:Then compete for one.

FACT: It is the choice of every Class B school in the state to compete at the A level. For decades, people pick their Class B Darling of the Year and say, "Yep, they're better than the A teams," with absolutely no level of comparison.

It must be nice to live a complete fantasy, where you can beat your chest about how good you are, then stow away from the top level and rack up another 20 wins.

Put your money where your mouth is. Schedule a Class A team. If Minot Ryan is that good, then I want to see them play Minot and Bismarck in the regular season. Otherwise, the claim that they would compete for a WDA title is worthless.

How many A teams did MPCG play to establish validity as the "best in the state"?


I know that Cavalier won the Grand Forks summer league tournament this year. Beating teams like Crookston, Red River and Central. As well as most local Region 2 teams and other Minn teams. I have no doubt that this year Ryan girls could compete with anyone in Class A. I also believe that those MPCG teams from the 90's were one of if not the best team in the state. I like your idea (also think we are fine where we are). I don't believe it will happen but I like it.
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Re: Almost There

Postby The Schwab » Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:11 pm

heimer wrote:Then compete for one.

FACT: It is the choice of every Class B school in the state to compete at the A level. For decades, people pick their Class B Darling of the Year and say, "Yep, they're better than the A teams," with absolutely no level of comparison.

It must be nice to live a complete fantasy, where you can beat your chest about how good you are, then stow away from the top level and rack up another 20 wins.

Put your money where your mouth is. Schedule a Class A team. If Minot Ryan is that good, then I want to see them play Minot and Bismarck in the regular season. Otherwise, the claim that they would compete for a WDA title is worthless.

How many A teams did MPCG play to establish validity as the "best in the state"?


MPCG played in the Shanley tournament for a stretch. During that time they played Shanley, DeLasale (Spelling, best team in Minn that ystretch) Minnetonka etc... I believe the year everyone says they were the best team in the state was 97 when they beat Shanley (who won class A) in the Shanley holiday tournament before getting wrecked by DeLasale (who had 2 kids on that team that went D-1, I believe one was Maurice Pederson who played in the league after playing for Michigan State). I would say that MPCG team would be the only team that could legitimately say they were better then the State A champion of the same year.
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Re: Almost There

Postby oldman » Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:26 pm

I have no idea how the summer basketball is played in GF, but in summer leagues I’ve seen most class A teams split into 3 or 4 equal teams. Not sure, but Cavalier may not have beat Red River or Centrals varsity. IMO If Ryan girls were in the WDA this year they would have 3 teams they should probably beat. (Dickinson, Williston, and St Mary's) But here’s a 2 week schedule they would face: Tues vs Century (good luck) Fri vs Jamestown (maybe, but good luck) Tue at Dickinson (should win if you’re not to banged up or fatigued from the 3 hr bus ride) Fri at Bis High (good luck) Then you get the rest of the west for the next month and then start over and play them all again. My guess is 5 to 7 wins. (Who Knows?) Never a night off and tough defense every night……that’s the difference. As far as changing the current system, who knows, however changed it will never be liked by all. Maybe the system we have is the best possible scenario.
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Re: Almost There

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:28 pm

You can't base how teams do in Summer Leagues...I see B teams beat A teams (or MN teams that would be A in ND) quite often in Summer Leagues in Fargo. The key is...Summer Leagues are different type of ball game compared to the Regular Season.
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Re: Almost There

Postby packers21 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:36 pm

Teams weren't split. I agree its a completely diff brand of ball. Only reason I posted it was to heimer. Still gives a general idea if teams can compete with each other. I wont argue that top class a teams are better, but top b teams can play with middle to lower end a teams.
It is a little harder to motivate kids I guess because they’ve been pampered so much. We’re in the trophy generation, give ‘em a trophy for 23rd place, make ‘em feel good. Make mom and dad feel good.” Tom Izzo, Michigan State Basketball
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Re: Almost There

Postby winner-within » Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:39 pm

we play nothing but A teams in youth ball at the big town tourns and an occasional B team .....we compete just fine....
its truly the same breed of athlete....Class A schools just have more of them....and I realize most know this, at the same time there is this stigmatism that we are talking MN one and two A schools vs MN AAA and AAAA when referring to ND class A and B......I assure you thats not the case.....

I will go on to say it does not take Tom Izzo or Phil Jackson to determine "if I go out and bring this kid to our school....and this kid from that town to our team, we will be just like or closer to the Class A school (depth wise) who has 5 Jon Does and 4 Jane does (she was a really good player) and we will win Class B.....it also does not take a rocket scientist to know that there have been many co-ops through out the years that were established to TRY AND WIN STATE ...so whether a bedroom community, or a private, or a rejuvenated oil boom town....this wont stop..... and rightfully so why should it....

get busy...Winning has and will never be easy...Take it from Winner!.. :)
Last edited by winner-within on Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Almost There

Postby B-oldtimer » Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:47 pm

I have been reading the posts recently here what people are arguing about is what separates A and B. My take is that class b and class a are like apples and oranges in that yes class b 97% time is not going to be at same level of Class a. There are few athletes that would perform at class a level from class b. The pure sports fan that watches basketball by ability and best teams performing would choose class a basketball. But here in North Dakota that its not only reason they watch basketball they like to watch class b because it has story line of small schools, underdog situation, limited players and depth, star player carrying a team to state, and not always the best team wins. To the true sports fan this is hard to understand and wonder why you want to watch lesser product where you can see superior highschoool athletes competing and the games are competitive. I guess its easier to identify with these small town kids and we like to get behind underdog. The one thing that does upset true class b fan is when smaller class A school want to slip down at class b level and dominate and think its perfectly fine and resist any changes that would put them on more equal basis of competition. Similar comparison of class A and B would be NDSU football we like how we can compete with some larger division 1 programs but we do love following our team being able to compete win championship. We as state love watching our football team compete and win but to rest of the country they look at it like class a fans were not top division anddon't follow the subdivision so they look at us some what differently in how we have kind of support and following for lesser division. I know this is going upset a lot of NDSU fans but what I am trying to say is we have been small town and rural state and level we compete at is not is important as if we can identify and feel its our team. So far that has been case in ND that's why class b tournament has had bigger following over the years. The question is what to do with private schools and larger b (that were A at one time) and small A schools and so far no plan has come forth to address this problem. The Activities association hasn't led, School administrators haven't step forward, and then you have media involved too because they have vested interest are worried may effect them so we have had nothing done. The effect has been they are slowly killing B the cash cow and haven't done much improve interest in class A either. Heimer's plan anddiscussion here shows that public would like it to be addressed and debated to see if high school basketball could be improved and made more equitable.
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Re: Almost There

Postby heimer » Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:08 pm

This is fun. I ask a question, and I get responses about summer ball, and travelling team ball.

Not one time has a B champ played a 19-game schedule and endured the grind of an A schedule. Yet, every time a team looks good, they are either the best team in the state, period, or the best team ever.

B champs love to run their mouth about how they WOULD beat the best in A every year. Walk that walk. Make the calls and ask for the games.

Otherwise, take your title, and lock the jaw.
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Re: Almost There

Postby The Schwab » Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:14 pm

heimer wrote:This is fun. I ask a question, and I get responses about summer ball, and travelling team ball.

Not one time has a B champ played a 19-game schedule and endured the grind of an A schedule. Yet, every time a team looks good, they are either the best team in the state, period, or the best team ever.

B champs love to run their mouth about how they WOULD beat the best in A every year. Walk that walk. Make the calls and ask for the games.

Otherwise, take your title, and lock the jaw.


I know there were a lot of other responses but I did my best to tell you who MPCG played in 96 and 97, they are the only B team I know of in the past 25 years that has played and beaten some good class A and MN competition
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Re: Almost There

Postby digger » Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:37 pm

heimer wrote:This is fun. I ask a question, and I get responses about summer ball, and travelling team ball.

Not one time has a B champ played a 19-game schedule and endured the grind of an A schedule. Yet, every time a team looks good, they are either the best team in the state, period, or the best team ever.

B champs love to run their mouth about how they WOULD beat the best in A every year. Walk that walk. Make the calls and ask for the games.

Otherwise, take your title, and lock the jaw.


I now remember why I stopped giving credence to your posts long ago. "Run their mouths...", "...they would beat the best in A every year.". Nonsense. I brought up what I believe to be a "generational" boys B team, MPCG from 96-97. I brought this up as a counter to your statement about the Ryan titles as being "meaningless". More nonsense. I believe that the current Ryan girls team is also a "generational" team. Is there talk about the top end Class B teams competing with A? Of course there is, it's competitive sports. This type of comparative trash talking has been going on at every level of athletics for years. Why does it grate at you so? The Milnor boys know they wouldn't have won the State A title last year. The Oak Grove boys know they wouldn't have won the State A title this year. I doubt either cares. Why do you?
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Re: Almost There

Postby winner-within » Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:53 pm

heimer wrote:This is fun. I ask a question, and I get responses about summer ball, and travelling team ball.

Not one time has a B champ played a 19-game schedule and endured the grind of an A schedule. Yet, every time a team looks good, they are either the best team in the state, period, or the best team ever.

B champs love to run their mouth about how they WOULD beat the best in A every year. Walk that walk. Make the calls and ask for the games.

Otherwise, take your title, and lock the jaw.


hyped...and you can bet your A$$ I didnt say this
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Re: Almost There

Postby east sider » Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:04 pm

digger wrote:
heimer wrote:This is fun. I ask a question, and I get responses about summer ball, and travelling team ball.

Not one time has a B champ played a 19-game schedule and endured the grind of an A schedule. Yet, every time a team looks good, they are either the best team in the state, period, or the best team ever.

B champs love to run their mouth about how they WOULD beat the best in A every year. Walk that walk. Make the calls and ask for the games.

Otherwise, take your title, and lock the jaw.


I now remember why I stopped giving credence to your posts long ago. "Run their mouths...", "...they would beat the best in A every year.". Nonsense. I brought up what I believe to be a "generational" boys B team, MPCG from 96-97. I brought this up as a counter to your statement about the Ryan titles as being "meaningless". More nonsense. I believe that the current Ryan girls team is also a "generational" team. Is there talk about the top end Class B teams competing with A? Of course there is, it's competitive sports. This type of comparative trash talking has been going on at every level of athletics for years. Why does it grate at you so? The Milnor boys know they wouldn't have won the State A title last year. The Oak Grove boys know they wouldn't have won the State A title this year. I doubt either cares. Why do you?


Couldn't have said it any better. Schwab gives him a SPECIFIC EXAMPLE of a "B" champ beating the "A" champ in the same year and pretends like nobody said anything, AS IF IT ISN'T TYPED OUT FOR EVERYONE TO SEE! I've followed B BB for a long time and rarely have I heard any team run their mouths about beating A. Go back twenty years in Boys and I'll give you the list of champs (+1 runner-up) I think could beat or compete with any team in state that year: viewtopic.php?f=83&t=9433

Bishop Ryan - 94
Carrington - 95
MPCG - 96/97
Oak Grove - 2000
North Border and Cando - 2001
MPCG - 2003

It has been over 10 years. Please enlighten us on how any one of these teams is supposed to schedule 19 games with Class A schools. You bash Class B fans as if they don't know what they are talking about. The more you write, the more clueless everyone sees you are. Typical Class A fan.

Wait for it....
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Re: Almost There

Postby Flip » Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:21 pm

I'm kind of curious who these class b fans are that are claiming the B champ is the best in the state? Anytime someone says something that crazy on this forum it is immediately shot down, by many posters.

before my time, but I've heard the '75 Lamoure team could have beat any team in the state. I believe Jamestown was the A champ that year.
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Re: Almost There

Postby heimer » Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:37 pm

east sider wrote: Please enlighten us on how any one of these teams is supposed to schedule 19 games with Class A schools.


Step by step process:

1. Opt up
2. Join a conference
3. Play the schedule
4. Get to state
5. Win it.
6. Brag about being the best in the state.

Otherwise:
1. Win state
2. Enjoy trophy
3. Keep quiet about who is the best in the state, as "A" is higher than "B".
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Re: Almost There

Postby Flying Wallenda » Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:50 pm

heimer wrote:This is fun. I ask a question, and I get responses about summer ball, and travelling team ball.

Not one time has a B champ played a 19-game schedule and endured the grind of an A schedule. Yet, every time a team looks good, they are either the best team in the state, period, or the best team ever.

B champs love to run their mouth about how they WOULD beat the best in A every year. Walk that walk. Make the calls and ask for the games.

Otherwise, take your title, and lock the jaw.

It's comical how out of touch with reality you are.
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Re: Almost There

Postby heimer » Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:45 am

Yeah, the Class B champ is better than the Class A champ, and a team in Mayville in the 90s was the absolute best ever team in the state, but I'm the one out of touch with reality.

Two-class system is working just fine, with every small school title going to Fargo, Bismarck, Minot, etc., but I'm the one out of touch with reality.

Reality, by terms of this message board, is a fantasy where everything B is better than everything A, and any change at all is bad.

The 1950's on the prairie called. It wants it's everything back.
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Re: Almost There

Postby Flip » Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:47 am

heimer wrote:Yeah, the Class B champ is better than the Class A champ, and a team in Mayville in the 90s was the absolute best ever team in the state, but I'm the one out of touch with reality.

who are these people saying this?
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Re: Almost There

Postby heimer » Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:57 am

Scroll up, Flip. Every year, the debate appears. Not to mention the Fargo Forum's expose on the MPCG teams of that era. The article specifically stated that the debate was on as to whether those teams were the best ever, regardless of class.

Typical B trash. Self-reinforcing delusion because the B's won't put it on the floor with the A's. When I see a B opt up by choice, compete, and win the title, then I'll believe. Otherwise, it's just crap spewed with no basis in fact.
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Re: Almost There

Postby heimer » Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:36 am

On this board from timmyg:

the 1996 and 1997 teams from May-Port CG are, as already said, the best teams in ND history.
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