Almost There

[EHS1998]

I don't have a tremendous amount of time to devote to this today, but based on a very quick look through DPI numbers for this year, here's what 32 teams A, split into 16 top enrollments in Division I and the bottom 16 in Division II, split again into regional assignments would look like.

In this scenario, each region sends 2 teams to state. Pairings would be:

I E 2nd vs. II W 1st
I W 1st. vs. II E 2nd
I E 1st. vs. II W 2nd
I W 2nd. vs. II E 1st

Division I East:
Fargo North
Fargo South
Fargo Davies
West Fargo
Sheyenne (WF2)
Red River
Central
Belcourt

Division I West:
Bismarck
Century
New Bismarck (is it Legacy?)
Mandan
Dickinson
Williston
Minot
Jamestown

Division II East:
Devils Lake
Wahpeton
Shanley
Valley City
Oak Grove
Grafton
Central Cass
Kindred

Division II West:
St. Marys
Shiloh
Trinity
Bishop Ryan
Our Redeemers
Trinity Christian
Beulah
Watford City

Before, someone had made the comment that, even with the un-defined district, they could not make a case for Trinity Christian and Our Redeemers in this group. Next up: New Town and Bottineau. Next up: Stanley and Hazen. Just food for thought.

I love it but would it ever get passed? Privates currently in class B would never get behind this, would they?

[justplayalready]

I am also for the expansion of class A...I think it's a better idea than a third class if done with some insight.

First you need to address the privates, regardless of their enrollment numbers. These numbers are controlled, even though they may only have 100 kids, they can control the 100 kids...as much as the idea of a separate division for the privates sounds good, in reality can they get a full schedule of games other than just playing each other. The most logical step would be play in class A...give them a few years and they will compete...The negatives would be the for the kids who go to a private who aren't quite good enough to play varsity for an A until they are a jr or sr, but could play varsity for a B school as an underclassman. These kids may not find an advantage any more going to a private, just stay at their A school

From there you can expand the bigs into A. Look to what MN had in their 2 class; a metro vs outstate vibe...a big versus little, For every Fargo or Bismarck school you have a Valley City and Watford City playing. Just something to add excitement for the new small A's...Again put thought into it making is competitive and exciting both reg season and playoffs

Another option is to do nothing...The changes we think should happen as B fans are due to what's happened on the girls side...next year they will fade back into obscurity as the seasons switch back. No one will know that a Private has won like 80 in a row, or who is playing where this year or where they played last year, or that there are other teams in R7 not just Beach.. or CC in 1. We will forgot about it after if we have an "all is well" B boys tourney...

[Hinsa]

The changes we think should happen as B fans are due to what's happened on the girls side...next year they will fade back into obscurity as the seasons switch back.

I agree with most of what you said until I got to this. Thank you for the encouraging words for girls B basketball. "...fade back into obscurity..." Man, that really makes a girl want to amp up the workouts and get to that obscure state tournament.

[heimer]

Truth hurts, huh?

Revenue from B boys is the reason for no change. Quoted over and over.

[Flip]

I love it but would it ever get passed? Privates currently in class B would never get behind this, would they?

Current Class A schools would hate it.

[heimer]

Some would, some wouldn't. Shanley, St. Marys, Devils Lake, VC, Wahp get to vote too.

Beside, this plan is not meant to please everyone. It's meant to improve the system.

[minotguy715]

Im not saying it is going to happen, but if you are worried about recruiting as it is now, wait till Minot area has 2 new Class B high schools in 2 , 3 , 4 yrs. Yes, there are 2 new rural high schools being built east and south of Minot(Nedrose High School & South Prairie High School)...........so whether you think it is a Private school thing or not, it is going to happen, if it is happening now.........actually has a chance to be worse as there is no tuition..........but when these new schools open , Minot area will have 6 Class B schools within 8 miles of Minot...........but one good thing is that because of all the class B people in Minot, when they hold the State B, you get larger crowds

[scoobyx2]

I love it but would it ever get passed? Privates currently in class B would never get behind this, would they?

Current Class A schools would hate it.

The current Class A setup needs to be updated. The infrastructure of the cities and schools especially in the West has really hurt the competition and interest at that level, and the WDA and EDC tourneys have turned into what is comparable to Class B districts. Minot who made it to the State A championship game only had about 8 girls on the roster all year.

[heimer]

And herein lies the knowledge of Class A basketball possessed by the typical Class B fan.

If you think the WDA and EDC tourneys are comparable to districts, you need to get your head examined. Class A regionals are 10-times the tournament of any district, except maybe District 2, and even then, it's at least 5 times better. The quality of Class A regional tournament basketball dwarfs any B district in this state, period.

Watch a game sometime. I'll buy the ticket.

[winner-within]

Again, quick recap:

Expand A
Split it into two divisions (top 12 and next 12, top 14 and next 14, whatever)
All schools without defined districts A bottom division
Each division sends 4 to State A tourney.

Waters down B? NO
Adds excitement? YES
Levels playing field? YES

Boy, must be a bad idea, since the ENTIRE STATE JUST WENT CRAZY WHEN NDSU BEAT OKLAHOMA! ITS THE SAME THING PEOPLE!

Totally agree with this

Same here...why?
In my day if Newburg or Linton beat a Munich or Hillsboro it was legit.....and its not the size that bothers me, its the manipulation of the sport.

[east sider]

And herein lies the knowledge of Class A basketball possessed by the typical Class B fan.

If you think the WDA and EDC tourneys are comparable to districts, you need to get your head examined. Class A regionals are 10-times the tournament of any district, except maybe District 2, and even then, it's at least 5 times better. The quality of Class A regional tournament basketball dwarfs any B district in this state, period.

Watch a game sometime. I'll buy the ticket.

I try to briefly check this site at work and hold comments until the end of the day, but I couldn't help myself today. Now I'm not calling you an idiot or moron or jerk, but if I had shared an idea on a public forum and somebody else chimed in basically agreeing with me, I would NOT attack the person for not knowing what they are talking about. If I did, I would look back and think that was a idiotic/jerk thing to do. Even worse, you clearly don't know what YOU are talking about in that the person you were responding to has much more knowledge of basketball (A or B) than you will ever comprehend. Get.a.clue.

[heimer]

and the WDA and EDC tourneys have turned into what is comparable to Class B districts. Minot who made it to the State A championship game only had about 8 girls on the roster all year.

What part of this agrees with me that A regionals are way better than B districts?

Thanks for taking time off of work.

[digger]

and the WDA and EDC tourneys have turned into what is comparable to Class B districts. Minot who made it to the State A championship game only had about 8 girls on the roster all year.

What part of this agrees with me that A regionals are way better than B districts?

Thanks for taking time off of work.

I don't think scooby was talking about the quality of the play, rather that half of the teams in the WDA and EDC tourneys move on to state. Just like half of the teams in the Class B districts move on to regionals. At least that's the way I took it.

[Hinsa]

Truth hurts, huh?

Revenue from B boys is the reason for no change. Quoted over and over.

I understand that B Boys is the cash cow in the state. No arguement. And I know that the B girls are the third fiddle following B boys and the super A. I get that. But obscurity? I think there are more than a baker's dozen of people who sit up and take notice of girls B basketball. That qualifies as non-obscurity.

I'm just trying to say that taking potshots (justplayalready) at the size of the girls fan base does nothing to help promote the sport.

[heimer]

If your concern is promoting the sport, then perhaps embrace a change to structure. Most people agree that, with three divisions of play, consolidations for competition would be limited, and some undone. Your own back yard would have two teams between Finley and Hope than one, and that's just one example.

The state has allowed this situation to happen with the B girls because of it's reluctance to change. Reap what you sew.

[ndlionsfan]

Finley and Hope would not split if there were three classes. Just not enough kids at either school anymore. They are not cooped just to be competitive.

[The Schwab]

If your concern is promoting the sport, then perhaps embrace a change to structure. Most people agree that, with three divisions of play, consolidations for competition would be limited, and some undone. Your own back yard would have two teams between Finley and Hope than one, and that's just one example.

The state has allowed this situation to happen with the B girls because of it's reluctance to change. Reap what you sew.

The Finley-Sharon school district currently has 53 students in the high school (9-12)(which I agree is a decent number), but 54 students in grades K-8 (which is not a good number).

[justplayalready]

Truth hurts, huh?

Revenue from B boys is the reason for no change. Quoted over and over.

I understand that B Boys is the cash cow in the state. No arguement. And I know that the B girls are the third fiddle following B boys and the super A. I get that. But obscurity? I think there are more than a baker's dozen of people who sit up and take notice of girls B basketball. That qualifies as non-obscurity.

I'm just trying to say that taking potshots (justplayalready) at the size of the girls fan base does nothing to help promote the sport.

I don't think I'm taking a potshot at the girls fan base...my point was in the entire paragraph, not just the part you quoted...I stand behind that whatever injustices, unfairness etc etc that occurred/will occur in the B girls will be forgotten after "Milnor( or whatever non big non private) won the boys B, everything is perfect...

If I take a potshot I will be at the NDHSAA for changing the season in the first place in an attempt to create an artificial fan interest in Girls B Ball by giving it the prime spot and feeding us a pure BS story about, "not enough time after the volleyball BS"...Just flat out say we were trying to do this, but it was a stupid idea that failed and did hurt our cash cow the B boys...We appreciate honesty, not smoke blown up our asses..

[scoobyx2]

and the WDA and EDC tourneys have turned into what is comparable to Class B districts. Minot who made it to the State A championship game only had about 8 girls on the roster all year.

What part of this agrees with me that A regionals are way better than B districts?

Thanks for taking time off of work.

I don't think scooby was talking about the quality of the play, rather that half of the teams in the WDA and EDC tourneys move on to state. Just like half of the teams in the Class B districts move on to regionals. At least that's the way I took it.

Thank you...that is exactly what I was talking about. Minot only had 8 players and struggled early in the season, but there was still very little debate on whether or not they were going to State. I was agreeing that we needed to change the way things are done, but unfortunately, we have too many people who are too set in their ways, are too confrontational, and their ability to discuss effectively is lacking.

As for taking time off of work...you are welcome. By 6am when I posted today, I had already put in a few hours of work, and thought I would take a break to contribute to a website that had been lacking in interest lately, and that some dedicated sports fans like Balla and Run try to make it useful.

[heimer]

Scooby, sincere apologies for the misunderstanding. I deal with a lot of people, here and elsewhere, so swear that B basketball, top to bottom, is better or as good as A. I took your comment to mean the same, when it didn't, as you explain.

And again, thanks for taking time off of work.

[scoobyx2]

Scooby, sincere apologies for the misunderstanding. I deal with a lot of people, here and elsewhere, so swear that B basketball, top to bottom, is better or as good as A. I took your comment to mean the same, when it didn't, as you explain.

And again, thanks for taking time off of work.

I accept your apology, and appreciate your enthusiasm and opinions. I do believe that Class B does produce outstanding players, but their individual programs are not to the caliber of Class A. I think that Bismarck and Bismarck Century were the top teams in Class A girls (even though they placed 3rd and 5th at State), and I think they would beat Minot Ryan simply with depth.

[minotguy715]

Scooby, sincere apologies for the misunderstanding. I deal with a lot of people, here and elsewhere, so swear that B basketball, top to bottom, is better or as good as A. I took your comment to mean the same, when it didn't, as you explain.

And again, thanks for taking time off of work.

I accept your apology, and appreciate your enthusiasm and opinions. I do believe that Class B does produce outstanding players, but their individual programs are not to the caliber of Class A. I think that Bismarck and Bismarck Century were the top teams in Class A girls (even though they placed 3rd and 5th at State), and I think they would beat Minot Ryan simply with depth.

I agree with this last statement that Century and Bismarck would beat Ryan at the end of the yr, but I don't think at the beginning.......my reasoning is that Ryan didn't improve much if at all during season, because of lack of competition , not only in games but also in practice.....whereas the bigger schools, practice everyday against equal players and most games are competitive. Ryan just is having a lucky time of having such good athletes come thru all at the same time, as are most B teams that make it to the championship game........it takes luck to have more than 2 excellent athletes coming thru at the same time in B, and in Ryans case athletic and big.

[heimer]

Bold statement. One of these two things must be true:

1. You're better than Bismarck and Minot, but don't want to prove it by opting up and winning a WDA, content to hide at the small school level and win meaningless state titles.

2.

[fandb]

Heimer: Tough statement to a lot of class B players through the years.
Minotguy715: Having heard plenty of stories on the girls from Ryan, yes athletes, double yes to work ethic. Plenty of athletes walking the hallways of many schools not willing or able to put it on the line.
Keep track of the luck. KX had special of another generation coming to a gym near you soon.

[Flying Wallenda]

Bold statement. One of these two things must be true:

1. You're better than Bismarck and Minot, but don't want to prove it by opting up and winning a WDA, content to hide at the small school level and win meaningless state titles.

2.

If small school level equals meaningless state titles why are you still so bent out of shape about your beloved VC getting moved out of the ranks of that meaningless division after 1 year?