Almost There

Class B Girls
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Re: Almost There

Postby The Schwab » Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:59 am

classB4ever wrote:
heimer wrote:Oldman, the TV networks will not budge on their commitment to only three weekends. There will be no fourth weekend.

So, you can do one of two things to introduce a third division.

1. Expand A, split divisions, each division sends four to state tournament, and A remains on weekend of basketball. B boys and B girls get their own weekend.

2. B boys and girls on same weekend in same place, which opens up a weekend for a true-third class to have it's own tournament.

There was a time I would have favored option 2, and you'd think, with the poor attendance of this year's girls tourney, we could easily accommodate B boys and girls in the same weekend now.

But, I still like making teams fight for a berth at state. If we had, lets say, 16 teams AA, 16 A, and the rest B, both of the top divisions would have state tournaments for half their membership. I don't even like that now, with 20 A teams having 8 at state.

I can stomach an expanded 32 team A getting 8, if the big half gets 4, and the small half gets 4. That way, you get guaranteed small vs. large right away, and there's some real entertainment value to the tournament.

Either works. But if we're gonna do it over, I want to dress it up.


It comes down to "3" separate groups making a concession. Using your terminology:
Class AA - Has to get over the fact they've had it pretty good for a long time. To be honest, their state tournament and their brand of basketball has gotten much more exciting in the past decade+. The argument has always been, just too easy to get to the state tournament, with approximately 50% chance of going.
Class A - Big B's and Privates will fight this all the way and have clout. They've been the big kid on the block in B and don't want to give that up. Will they? Have heard, "life isn't fair" and "pull up your pants" used, are they willing to do the same?
Class B - Tournament attendance is down, for both girls and boys. They have received plenty of "tinkering" with their tournaments, but will need to concede something for this to happen.

I like heimer's proposal, except, if AA (4 go to state) and A (4 go to state) would be formed, then B has to make a concession. I think if AA and A had a tournament, it would become the biggest tournament of all. The AA/A boys and girls should each get their own weekend. Also, to make it work in B, I think the class B boys and girls should be on the same weekend, and if possible, in the same gym.
Here's an idea. Thursday of state B tournament, alternate games between boys and girls. It's going to have to start early in the morning, just like football. The losers in the first round are done. Friday and Saturday then alternates the semi-finals and finals, respectively, for the boys and girls. Yes, you lose all the 5th-8th place games for both boys and girls, but that's the concession.
Here's the problem: Are their enough gyms, refs, and quite frankly days in the week, to allow class B boys and girls to get their districts and regionals done? Maybe the super regionals idea would take off with this model?
I know it's a crazy idea, and am sure a lot of holes in it, but not much traffic on here, so threw it out there to get butchered.


IMO if the state would look at Heimers plan the attendance would be higher at all 3 tournaments. The reason I say this is: If you always have smaller schools in the class B the whole town will follow them for the WHOLE tournament, not like the Big B's now when the people only come for their game (not even both games of that session). In the class A/AA you would have those "A" schools (Now the david's) with a shot to knock off one of the double A powers and people would come out of the woodwork. So to sum it up, if you would have a combined A and AA boys and girls you wouldn't need to tweak the system.
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Re: Almost There

Postby heimer » Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:18 am

Of course, in a scenario of a combined B girls and boys, the NDHSAA would bail out to the easiest option, which would be two floors and the one-hour staggered start, the current formula for A.

Because creative problem solving usually isn't included in the multiple degrees you need to get into the I-scratch-your-back-you-scratch-mine club that the NDHSAA is.

However, food for thought:

At the NAIA national tournament, they are faced with playing eight games in one day on one floor for three straight days through the second round of a 32-team tournament. Their approach is to use halftime of the previous game for teams to get half of their shoot-around/warmup in. They then get 10 more minutes in before their game starts.

Combining this, and the mentality of the NDHSAA football model, which clearly states that 9:00 is not too early for a state championship game, the first round could easily look something like this.

8:00 AM--Round 1 girls (boys in year two, then rotate)
9:45 AM--Round 1 boys
11:30 AM--Round 1 girls
1:15 PM--Round 1 boys
3:00 PM--Round 1 girls
4:45 PM--Round 1 boys
6:30 PM--Round 1 girls
8:15 PM--Round 1 boys

Follow this same schedule Friday and Saturday, with consi games in the four spots, and the winner's bracket in the late spots on Friday, then 7th, 7th, 5th, 5th, 3rd, 3rd, title, title, and you play the entire tournament on the same floor.

It works. They do it for college basketball with 20:00 halves and they make it work. This works for 8:00 quarters.
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Re: Almost There

Postby classB4ever » Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:28 am

Makes sense that it could be done.
My only concern was getting each team's fans close to the court with the seating we have available. Going back to the two gym scenario. What if they played the opening round with your time frames? Flipping seats after each 2 game session (natural break) to get each teams fans moved down. Then after the first day, moving the 5th - 8th brackets for both girls & boys, to the second gym on Friday and Saturday? Not sure if it makes any sense. Just trying to relieve some "fan congestion" in the facility.
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Re: Almost There

Postby heimer » Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:50 am

IMO, we have to get over this. Fans will move, and reserved sections in this scenario will be at a premium, which is the idea anyway. One city, one floor, one awesome experience for fans. Anything else is just tinkering.
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Re: Almost There

Postby classB4ever » Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:53 am

Fair enough. IMO, your idea would work and it would be exciting.
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Re: Almost There

Postby ndlionsfan » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:15 am

While I would love to see a combined B tournament, I think the big problem would come before the state tournament. Like someone said before, what happens to districts and regions? I believe we're headed to super regionals within the next couple years, but even then how do you get two super regionals done in a very close time frame to the state tournament in places like Devils Lake, Williston, Jamestown, Dickinson, etc. The places with the smaller arenas just can't hold enough or have enough time to get two tournaments in. I would hate to have boys and girls tournaments going on at the same time in completely different towns and in smaller venues than were regions are currently held.
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Re: Almost There

Postby heimer » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:49 am

Play it down to four teams left (boys and girls) at home locations, with the gate split to the region.

Regional tournament then moves to one location for semi-semi-semi-semi night, followed by third-third-title-title.

Don't like that?

First round at home sites by a certain date to get it down to eight each.

Monday--four first round games
Tuesday--four first round games
Wednesday--walk with God
Thursday--semi-semi-semi-semi
Friday--third-third-title-title

We can count backwards. Determine the date of state. The Friday before is title night. The Friday or Saturday before that is the deadline for first-round regional games. The Monday before that is the deadline for the regular season.

It's not hard. Its math.
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Re: Almost There

Postby heimer » Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:23 am

Wow, 256 replies to this thread.

I did some quick searching, through about 10 pages on both the boys and girls boards for "B", and I could only find one thread that had more replies (2012 Mr. Basketball discussion had 281).

I think we should petition the NDHSAA to adopt White House rules in regard to northdakotapreps.com. If any thread receives more than 200 replies, the NDHSAA must issue a formal response.
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