Different styles nowdays?

[bigpoppakdog]

It seems today we have discussions about shot clocks in class b and how TLM averaged 78 or so points per game this year. When I played years ago, we averaged something like 77 per game and were not the best in the district. We were a run and gun team due to having some athletic guards. It was not uncommon to have three players in digits for us or for other teams. Glen Ullin had athletic guards, so did Richardton/Taylor, beulah, hazen(although they clamped down on you defensively) just to name a few. Back in those days we watched teams like "showtime" and the bostin celtics that were run and gun. Today you don't see that at all in the NBA and if you do in college it's a rare thing. This year you see UNC and Memphis, but was a norm years ago. Has this trickled down to the high school game? Seems like you see teams off the rebound sooner turn around wait for everyone to clear out and then walk the ball down the court. Years ago as soon as the rebound was going to be made you would see guards on the other end of the court ready for the outlet pass. The topic of a shot clock was something I did not hear once in my years playing ball. Not saying that it was better, just the style that we all played. Do I like the set it up and run it style, no. Is the shot clock issue really a coaching style issue?

[baseball]

College has a lot more Run & Gun teams then you think. so i dont think thats a problem

[milton-meteor]

I dont think a shot clock would spark a team to run, 35 secs is plenty of time to work it up and set it up.
I would agree things have slowed now days every team thinks they have only one guy that can bring the ball up the court.the reason I think things have slowed some is, kids in general have grown so much bigger now days, 6' 6' was a giant back in the eighties, almost unheard of in the seventies by the time the 90's rolled around it was becoming more commen, now you are seeing tall guys, real tall and the coaches are saying we dont have to run. Also there are less schools competeing and they know 4 will go on to the regions, so just having less teams to worry about brings on a complacency and less urgency, till the end of the season.

[bigpoppakdog]

I would agree back in the day that 6'6" would be a definate factor. But, it seemed like EVERY team had one of those giant donkey's. Today I saw, grant county and killdeer with players that I would consider "big men." I was a tall guard(6'0") back in my days 86-90. Today I would be an average size guard making some of the plays I did a lot more difficult to do today on the perimeter, but not as difficult once the perimeter is broken because no big man in the middle to get in the way. Remember some of these big guys.... from halliday before swenson...he was 6'8", Doug Gerving, Corey Wilhelm, Frank Kraft, Doug Oswald, Wanner's from Hebron, Jason Schwartz, Clooten from Beulah, these guys were all 6'5 or above. I would argue that there were many more 100 point games back then with all these teams having true big men as a center piece than you see now days. I guess I started thinking about this topic with the discussion of the shot clock and TLM being cited as the highest pts/game team in the state with 77 or so a game. Just didn't seem like scoring 70 points was that difficult years ago. Now if you score 50 a game you could win majority of your games. I don't think the defense is any better, but time can cloud my accuracy on my memories.

[BB11]

I would agree back in the day that 6'6" would be a definate factor. But, it seemed like EVERY team had one of those giant donkey's. Today I saw, grant county and killdeer with players that I would consider "big men." I was a tall guard(6'0") back in my days 86-90. Today I would be an average size guard making some of the plays I did a lot more difficult to do today on the perimeter, but not as difficult once the perimeter is broken because no big man in the middle to get in the way. Remember some of these big guys.... from halliday before swenson...he was 6'8", Doug Gerving, Corey Wilhelm, Frank Kraft, Doug Oswald, Wanner's from Hebron, Jason Schwartz, Clooten from Beulah, these guys were all 6'5 or above. I would argue that there were many more 100 point games back then with all these teams having true big men as a center piece than you see now days. I guess I started thinking about this topic with the discussion of the shot clock and TLM being cited as the highest pts/game team in the state with 77 or so a game. Just didn't seem like scoring 70 points was that difficult years ago. Now if you score 50 a game you could win majority of your games. I don't think the defense is any better, but time can cloud my accuracy on my memories.

Main two factors in my opinion:
1. Ability to shoot as a whole is not even close to what it was in the 70's and 80's. Therefore - if you can't shoot - you won't score. That's why TLM scored 70-80 pts a game - they were the only really good shooting team I saw play this year. 20-30 years ago - you would have 2-3 teams that could shoot like TLM in every district - if not more.

2. Defense has gotten a lot better - which might be a factor on the shooting ability. A good majority of kids now a days are bigger-faster-stronger - makes it easier to play a more aggressive defense - the offensive skills (shooting, ball-handling) haven't got better = less points.

You also see both of these factors in the college and pro games. Not too many 100+ pt. games at the pro level anymore - due to; not as good shooters - and waaay better defense. Think about it - you had teams scoring consistently in the 100's BEFORE the 3 pt. line in the pro's - same thing in HS ball. In my opinion, althought I love having it - the 3 pt. line ruined kids ability to shoot well - because that is all a lot of kids will practice and they start practicing it - way before they have the strength to actually shoot a good jump shot - so they develop a ton of ugly, bad shooting habits that they never get rid of.

[bigpoppakdog]

I don't know if I think the defense is better now days at least from the region i have been watching over the years. I know in the west the style of defense that is allowed is much more physical than other areas. You see more man to man over there also. But overall I don't think the defense is better. I believe the 1 through 4 spots on the floor have gotten better physically and have gotten much taller. I remember many teams years ago have that 5'8 point guard. Now days the point guards are often 6'0" tall. I don't think the center position has gotten any better. In fact I would say that that position has actually gotten worse. That is why I am surprised that teams struggle at scoring. I also have thought that teams don't shoot the ball as well now days.

[milton-meteor]

I don't know if I think the defense is better now days at least from the region i have been watching over the years. I know in the west the style of defense that is allowed is much more physical than other areas. You see more man to man over there also. But overall I don't think the defense is better. I believe the 1 through 4 spots on the floor have gotten better physically and have gotten much taller. I remember many teams years ago have that 5'8 point guard. Now days the point guards are often 6'0" tall. I don't think the center position has gotten any better. In fact I would say that that position has actually gotten worse. That is why I am surprised that teams struggle at scoring. I also have thought that teams don't shoot the ball as well now days.

some of the one on one defenses may be better played out now days, but the presses and traps were better back then, I know guys back then that would have had 10 threes in one game if we would have had three pointers but that was there strength, nothing inside to work with, once you paint the line on the court and count the bucket as three points it totally changes the game, class B ball would be more fun to watch if we had no three's, a shot clock (40 secs) and 18 minute halves, Kids would flat out have to work harder or they would be left in the dust by the ones that have passion for the sport and Heart.

[bigpoppakdog]

I played a few years after the 3 point line was implemented. We had no problem(as did most of the teams) scoring points. We also did not have a shot clock. So I'm not totally buying into the need for a shot clock. I think the style of bb now days is a halfcourt game versus a "showtime" style like the 80's. There is also an alarming trend in our best basketball players in the US who can't shoot a free throw nor shoot a shot from 20 feet away anymore. I think there are a lot of us who could get off the couch now and shoot better free throws than majority of the NBA players. Of course couldn't do that fancy 2 point slam dunk.

Also, remember the hook-shot? Tell me the last time anyone saw that shot?

[baseball]

I played a few years after the 3 point line was implemented. We had no problem(as did most of the teams) scoring points. We also did not have a shot clock. So I'm not totally buying into the need for a shot clock. I think the style of bb now days is a halfcourt game versus a "showtime" style like the 80's. There is also an alarming trend in our best basketball players in the US who can't shoot a free throw nor shoot a shot from 20 feet away anymore. I think there are a lot of us who could get off the couch now and shoot better free throws than majority of the NBA players. Of course couldn't do that fancy 2 point slam dunk.

Also, remember the hook-shot? Tell me the last time anyone saw that shot?

just saw Candace Parker shoot a sweeping hook shot haha

[milton-meteor]

I played a few years after the 3 point line was implemented. We had no problem(as did most of the teams) scoring points. We also did not have a shot clock. So I'm not totally buying into the need for a shot clock. I think the style of bb now days is a halfcourt game versus a "showtime" style like the 80's. There is also an alarming trend in our best basketball players in the US who can't shoot a free throw nor shoot a shot from 20 feet away anymore. I think there are a lot of us who could get off the couch now and shoot better free throws than majority of the NBA players. Of course couldn't do that fancy 2 point slam dunk.

Also, remember the hook-shot? Tell me the last time anyone saw that shot?

Well I hope you mean Showtime like the Lakers (magic and team) but actually now days I see way more show boating and less attacking the Basket, way more trash talking and less walking the walk. Its plain and simple the teams that make it to state are the most disciplined with true talent, true talent and no disciplin may not even make the regions.

[asiantangy99]

I played a few years after the 3 point line was implemented. We had no problem(as did most of the teams) scoring points. We also did not have a shot clock. So I'm not totally buying into the need for a shot clock. I think the style of bb now days is a halfcourt game versus a "showtime" style like the 80's. There is also an alarming trend in our best basketball players in the US who can't shoot a free throw nor shoot a shot from 20 feet away anymore. I think there are a lot of us who could get off the couch now and shoot better free throws than majority of the NBA players. Of course couldn't do that fancy 2 point slam dunk.

Also, remember the hook-shot? Tell me the last time anyone saw that shot?

Well I hope you mean Showtime like the Lakers (magic and team) but actually now days I see way more show boating and less attacking the Basket, way more trash talking and less walking the walk. Its plain and simple the teams that make it to state are the most disciplined with true talent, true talent and no disciplin may not even make the regions.

ya the cocky teams never make it, and lately thier have been more cinderella teams then usual

[bigpoppakdog]

As far as trash talking goes, I would have to put myself and some of my teammates on the top of the list. Back in the day Glen Ullin use to intimidate you a lot. Eventually some of us figured that we had to match that and we did. We carried that over into every game we played. I don't hear or see the trash talking type intensity today. When the Bismarck girl swatted away the manda players hand it was such a huge deal. Back in the day that wouldn't be worth talking about because you saw that on a regular basis.

[milton-meteor]

As far as trash talking goes, I would have to put myself and some of my teammates on the top of the list. Back in the day Glen Ullin use to intimidate you a lot. Eventually some of us figured that we had to match that and we did. We carried that over into every game we played. I don't hear or see the trash talking type intensity today. When the Bismarck girl swatted away the manda players hand it was such a huge deal. Back in the day that wouldn't be worth talking about because you saw that on a regular basis.

I remember some trash talking back in the early eighties, just certain teams would resort to this style, most coaches and refs then didnt like it, I was more like, make friends with them before the game and go after them on the court, a little reverse phyc.

[bigpoppakdog]

My hs playing days were the same years as the "bad boys" years of detroit. I realize now how much of the NBA can dictate what goes on in hs. Poor shooters in the NBA and from what we've all agreed on, poorer shooters in hs.

[milton-meteor]

My hs playing days were the same years as the "bad boys" years of detroit. I realize now how much of the NBA can dictate what goes on in hs. Poor shooters in the NBA and from what we've all agreed on, poorer shooters in hs.

I dont think I would say, "poor shooters in HS" this could offend a kid like, Walski, Dauphinias, Malzer, Carpenter, and many others who spent extra time in the gym, I would sum it up like this, most teams have a great shooter, maybe two, few teams have a string of good shooters, 4 to 5 go to guys who can all average in the double digits. I remember awards night my senior year we played with 6 all season very seldom did the seventh man come in, one game he come in to make a statement and two minutes later sat down with 5 fouls. Any ways on awards night after the season was over there were 6 awards given

best FG%-guard (brother)
best FT%-center
MVP- other guard
most Rebounds-Forward (me)
best Defense - other Forward
Most Improved-6th Man

well rounded is hard to come by, but a coach will take this any day instead of a star and the rest of the team, and if you happen to be a star, just remember you also have the capability of making your teamates better, ala Lebron, Magic, Bird, Jordan.