more player control fouls called this season?

[9manfootballmom]

Man...in district 10 we have seen a huge rise in player control fouls AKA the Charge! Anybody have an idea why there are so many more called this season? Is it particular refs? Have they been told at reffing clinics to call more of these? Let me know what you think about this...also if it is just district 10 that has been so rampant.

[baller01]

Haha wow...weird. Last night I was thinking I should come on here and start a topic just like this because I too have noticed more player control fouls. Great minds must think a like;)

[9manfootballmom]

What district were you watching?

[old lineman]

Dist. 10 is home of the FLOP. In the rules it states thatan obviuos flop should be a techincal foul. How can anyone post up, make a play to the basket when we have the academy award winning or (whinning) floppers. Someone needs to get a clear interpetation on this and get on the same page with all the ref's. It takes a physical team out of the game and In other posts it is talked about that noone posts up. This district tourney is an example of what the game is moving to. satnd outside the arc. and cast away.

[baller01]

What district were you watching?

I've seen a bunch of teams from different regions this year. Regions 5,7, and 3. Mostly Region 3. I can never remember seeing so many player control fouls in a year.

[old lineman]

How much more work would it be for a player to continue to play defense on a play rather than stop his motion and get ran over like a rag doll? There is a time and a place for the flop but it should not be your best defensive move.

[Hinsa]

In Region 2 I see it called both ways - player control and block. I think our region is trying to call it correctly. If anything, I see to many no calls where bodies crash to the floor and nothing is called.

One thing that is NOT called is the offensive foul when a post backs down the defensive player to the point where they end up with a layup - the Shaq move. It is critical in high school when there is such a size disparity between teams and players that backing down is called an offensive foul when the defender is in position but simply gets pushed backwards.

[baseball]

isnt the point of trying to get the ball in the post to use your size and strength as an advantage???

[Hinsa]

Your size, yes. Your strength to back down a smaller opponent, no. Every player is entitled to their space on the floor. If someone moves them from that space, it's a foul. Backing someone down moves the defender from their space. That's a foul.

[old lineman]

these calls are a bump a thespian like bounce to the floor

[9manfootballmom]

I think OLDLINEMAN is calling much of what we are seeing the an acting tool called the FLOP. Many kids on teams have perfected it. It does get annoying, but I think some kids are promised a pop or a steak supper if they get more than 3 in a game.

[9manfootballmom]

Your size, yes. Your strength to back down a smaller opponent, no. Every player is entitled to their space on the floor. If someone moves them from that space, it's a foul. Backing someone down moves the defender from their space. That's a foul.

But doesn't it also matter if the defender is "set" or sliding along with the offensive threat? Wondering if that is discussed at reffing clinics.

[Hinsa]

Being "set" is a misconception. A player does not have to be set - they just have to be in a "legal guarding position." The defender can move laterally to stay with the offensive player, they do not have to stand still. If an offensive player has a path to the basket and the defender does not obtain the "legal guarding position" before contact, then it's a blocking foul. If the defender obtains position first it's a player control foul, i.e. charge.

So my point is that a larger player cannot use their big butt to move a smaller player closer to the basket - i.e. "backing them down." That's a player control foul.

I'm not talking about flopping. What I'm talking about is when a bigger offensive player takes a step backward toward the basket and the defender ends up getting pushed 2 feet backwards. The offensive player doesn't have any more right to push with his butt than the defender does to push with his elbow or forearm in the offensive players back.

The offensive and defensive players both establish position on the lane. Then if either the offensive or defensive player wants to move they have to go around the other player, not push through them.

[balla45]

Does it bother anyone else that if you are a step ahead of the person you are guarding and they trip over your knee or shoe, you get called for the foul, even though they initiated the contact and you were in the spot first.

I also notice that if a quicker player beats a man to a spot, they usually bail out the offensive player anyway.

Has anyone else noticed this?

[baller01]

Being "set" is a misconception. A player does not have to be set - they just have to be in a "legal guarding position." The defender can move laterally to stay with the offensive player, they do not have to stand still. If an offensive player has a path to the basket and the defender does not obtain the "legal guarding position" before contact, then it's a blocking foul. If the defender obtains position first it's a player control foul, i.e. charge.

So my point is that a larger player cannot use their big butt to move a smaller player closer to the basket - i.e. "backing them down." That's a player control foul.

I'm not talking about flopping. What I'm talking about is when a bigger offensive player takes a step backward toward the basket and the defender ends up getting pushed 2 feet backwards. The offensive player doesn't have any more right to push with his butt than the defender does to push with his elbow or forearm in the offensive players back.

The offensive and defensive players both establish position on the lane. Then if either the offensive or defensive player wants to move they have to go around the other player, not push through them.

I agree with you 100% but I just haven't seen this by players in any of the games I've seen this year. Maybe it is a problem around your area but I wouldn't say it's happening all across the state.

[baseball]

Your size, yes. Your strength to back down a smaller opponent, no. Every player is entitled to their space on the floor. If someone moves them from that space, it's a foul. Backing someone down moves the defender from their space. That's a foul.

if thats the case i would just put my weakest player on the block for defense and if the post takes a step and knocks him off balance thats a foul? watch the weaker player on the other end of the floor trying to get position....he does as much pushing, if not more since he cant move him as easily, as the bigger guy when hes on offense. its different if the player just runs downt he floor, 3 feet from the hoop just turns his rump into the defender and sends him flying. if they are both jsut standing there and the ball swings...let the player use his strength to move the defender (watch Kevin Love post up on a ball swung around the perimeter...he starts sealing his man when the ball is at the top of the key and gets the pass from the wing. when the ball is at the top the defender is not ready to bang on the block and he will be off balance. thats when i think its ok for them to back down and move them closer to the basket. it just looks bad because the defender is not balanced). id actually prefer them to let a little more go on the perimeter instead of calling touch fouls, let them bump a little bit but make sure its under control. if the defender is using his feet and not his hands, i have no problem with them bumping the dribblers

[Hinsa]

I hear what your sayin' baseball. But by the book, it doesn't matter how weak the defender is, he's entitled to that space. If you want to put your stringbean on a power player and the stringbean gets knocked off his spot, it's a foul.

Again, I'm not saying flopping, but legitimately bumped off his spot.

The problem I see is that every post player is taught the power drop step. That is a good thing - it's a good, strong move. But for so many post players I have seen, that's the only move they have. If they can't drop step, they have nothing else to go to so they just bull their way to the basket. Then it's just a battle of who is stronger, not who is the better basketball player.

Not many post players learn how to shoot a plain, good ol' turn around jump shot without a dribble. Or even, perish the tought, a fadeaway turnaround that can't be blocked by taller defenders!