Gatorade player of the year.

[ibleedcarolinablue]

who else agrees with me that tivis should of got gatorade player of the year. The criteria should of made it a lock for him. He had better numbers than erdmann with a 4.0 GPA. He is also active in the community.


Thoughts?

[Ming01]

No I dont agree with you.

[ndfan]

I don't either nothing has been proven that Erdman doesn't deserve that award.

[1337]

No agreement here either. It's one thing to argue why one player should get it, but when there are no arguments as to why a player that did win it, shouldn't have, that's just how the cookie crumbles.

[paperboy]

Tivis may have had better numbers, but against different competition...and I didn't see Tivis' team winning State.  There's the difference.

[ibleedcarolinablue]

How do you even say that tivis didnt have any competition? At least 3 or 4 of the teams in region 7 would succeed in class A. Let's check out tivis' competition...

Jaden Voth- Mr. Basketball finalist (all state)
Jeff Smith- 30 ppg (all state)
Trinity- State champs-Landon Smith (2nd team)
Killdeer- Wheeling and Dufault
Hazen- Chad Marshall

and also look at his numbers. And most games him and the rest of the starters sat out most of the second half. Just think if coach z kept them in all game. His numbers would be huge. He sleeps, eats, dreams, and lives BALL. And he still manages to pull a 4.0 GPA, which is a key figure in the gatorade player of the year selection.

[paperboy]

How do you even say that tivis didnt have any competition? At least 3 or 4 of the teams in region 7 would succeed in class A. Let's check out tivis' competition...

Jaden Voth- Mr. Basketball finalist (all state)
Jeff Smith- 30 ppg (all state)
Trinity- State champs-Landon Smith (2nd team)
Killdeer- Wheeling and Dufault
Hazen- Chad Marshall

and also look at his numbers. And most games him and the rest of the starters sat out most of the second half. Just think if coach z kept them in all game. His numbers would be huge. He sleeps, eats, dreams, and lives BALL. And he still manages to pull a 4.0 GPA, which is a key figure in the gatorade player of the year selection.

I didn't say he didn't have ANY competition, I said different.  Tivis probably played half his games against some pretty weak teams, I would think.  To me, that's the difference between A and B.  In Class A, you're playing against a pretty good team almost every game.  Heck, even Valley City and Jamestown put up some pretty good fights, just look at their scores. 

Also, you listed a number of individuals as Tivis' competition...I disagree, you would think that the teams are his competition.

[paperboy]

 Also,  if these teams would have competed in class A this year, how come none of them actually played in the class B state tourney.  Fargo North, Devils Lake, Minot, or South would have absolutely blown out Dickinson Trinity or MPCG this year.  The competition between A and B is so much different it's ridiculous.

Erdmann also has a very respectable 3.6 GPA and volunteers in his spare time.  He is well deserving of the award.

[Ming01]

Eric Erdmann won the gatorade state player of the year.

[ND Scout]

NO duh thats kind of what were talking about

[Ming01]

Maybe you should read the other posts, one guy put Travis Mertens as winning gatorade state player.  I was just correcting him.  But now his post was deleted.

[bballuvr]

Hello Paperboy,

  "absolutely blown out" and "so much different it's ridiculous". These are rather interesting statements.  Most Class B fans have enough sense and understanding of the game and respect for Class A talent to realize there is a difference. And certainly most often a significant difference.

  I would say that the top echelon of Class B teams would not be "absolutely blown out". Nor would I say that at that level it is a "ridiculous" difference. I'm not trying to disrespect your views, but disagree with the adjectives used.

 Thanks

[xcolt90]

Class A numbers are always a bit lower because the quality of the guys they play with is better than a great Class B player. 

That being said, if the players around you aren't that good then it's harder for a good B player to put up points because you can concentrate your defense on shutting them down.  Class B players often score against 2 or sometimes 3 players.  Class A players play great defense but also have to pay attention to the other players on the floor.  There fore a B player will have a hard time scoring if there is nobody on his team to help carry the load.

Payton Tivis had Derek Pauley on his team.  The two guys that I think rate higher than Tivis does, are Jeff Smith of Hettinger and Jaden Voth of Glen Ullin.  Smith averaged 27.5 ppg, I read in their town paper that the second leading scorer averaged 10.4 ppg.  That's a 17 ppg difference.  Voth averaged 25.7 ppg and the next leading guy on his team didn't average more than 13 I believe.

Payton gets 25 ppg and Pauley got 18.8.  You do the math.  Smith and Voth's numbers are much more impressive to me.  Mertens numbers are impressive also, but I like the fact that Smith and Voth had no help.  Mertens had help as did Tivis.

[magic715]

 Also,  if these teams would have competed in class A this year, how come none of them actually played in the class B state tourney.  Fargo North, Devils Lake, Minot, or South would have absolutely blown out Dickinson Trinity or MPCG this year.  The competition between A and B is so much different it's ridiculous.

Erdmann also has a very respectable 3.6 GPA and volunteers in his spare time.  He is well deserving of the award.

to the blowing out part , i think i disagree with that part of the comment, i believe Trinity, and maybe May Port could have had the same kinda record as Beulah , which i believe was 11-11. Not a great record but would have given some teams a run on given nights. Beulah's starting 5 and Trinity's starting 5 were very comparable. But I agree almost every yr only one or 2 at the most can or could play with A teams consistently. And this yr it was Trinity and May-Port, sorry to those in bowman ,as i did not see them play. And every once in a while a team like May-Port with the big boys, and bishop ryan of 94 could have played and been very successful in Class A, but those teams are few and far between.

[NATURAL TALENT]

Class A numbers are always a bit lower because the quality of the guys they play with is better than a great Class B player. 

That being said, if the players around you aren't that good then it's harder for a good B player to put up points because you can concentrate your defense on shutting them down.  Class B players often score against 2 or sometimes 3 players.  Class A players play great defense but also have to pay attention to the other players on the floor.  There fore a B player will have a hard time scoring if there is nobody on his team to help carry the load.

Payton Tivis had Derek Pauley on his team.  The two guys that I think rate higher than Tivis does, are Jeff Smith of Hettinger and Jaden Voth of Glen Ullin.  Smith averaged 27.5 ppg, I read in their town paper that the second leading scorer averaged 10.4 ppg.  That's a 17 ppg difference.  Voth averaged 25.7 ppg and the next leading guy on his team didn't average more than 13 I believe.

Payton gets 25 ppg and Pauley got 18.8.  You do the math.  Smith and Voth's numbers are much more impressive to me.  Mertens numbers are impressive also, but I like the fact that Smith and Voth had no help.  Mertens had help as did Tivis.

They didnt get class b player of the year. The topic is gatorade player of the year if you didnt know that. They all got all-state, thats great, they all deserved it. keep to the topic.

You are talking about Payton Tivis, 25ppg and you dont think he got guarded well enough compared to a Smith or a Voth? You cant take away basketball ability just because he had a better teamate than the other two. They are all great players, Tivis just had the better team.

[xcolt90]

Jeff Smith and Jaden Voth both lead their teams in scoring, rebounding, steals, and assists.  They guarded the other teams best players and scored more points a game than Tivis did.

Thomas Burke was Bowman's best defender, Derek Paulley was their best rebounder. 

Smith and Voth also did the majority of the ball-handling on their teams which Breen did for Bowman.  If you are voting for gatorade player of the year award, Erdman may be the best of the group, but in my mind Smith and Voth are both ahead of Tivis.  They did way more for their prospective teams that Tivis did for Bowman.  Tivis is a great player but he's not the player that Voth and Smith are.

[Saucesauer]

i dont know class b sports too well but i think just the simple fact that he plays class be may have hurt him but i dont know

also from what i hear from a couple class b baseball players i know from summer basball all you have to do to get a 4.0 is be a decent athlete and show up to class every once and awhile

[spartan1]

Jeff Smith and Jaden Voth both lead their teams in scoring, rebounding, steals, and assists.  They guarded the other teams best players and scored more points a game than Tivis did.

Thomas Burke was Bowman's best defender, Derek Paulley was their best rebounder. 

Smith and Voth also did the majority of the ball-handling on their teams which Breen did for Bowman.  If you are voting for gatorade player of the year award, Erdman may be the best of the group, but in my mind Smith and Voth are both ahead of Tivis.  They did way more for their prospective teams that Tivis did for Bowman.  Tivis is a great player but he's not the player that Voth and Smith are.

thats funny. last i checked payton tivis made all state 1st team two years in a row. he also played his senior season with a broken foot, and showed no signs of stopping. give the kid a break. jaden voth and jeff smith are great players but tivis has the edge.

[bball4life]

thats funny. last i checked payton tivis made all state 1st team two years in a row. he also played his senior season with a broken foot, and showed no signs of stopping. give the kid a break. jaden voth and jeff smith are great players but tivis has the edge.

Well spartan which would be harder to do? To lead your team in steals, guard the best defender on the other team, while leading your team in rebounds and scoring. and assists OR gaurd teams 3rd or even 4th best player. Tivis is a great player but  didnt have to do half the stuff voth or smith had to. Neither of them had a 2nd man to go to like pauley. And if tivis has the edge why was he co-senior of the year with smith?

And i did see smith play with a serverly injured foot too in regionals against killdeer and i think he put up 25 while being gaurded with two men. And i heard down in hettinger last week that he got x-rays of his foot again and it showed  that he did indeed did break his foot.  

[iluv4winds]

Here is what I have to add to this as a fan of region 7 hoops. 

Jeff Smith is a great player, and I understand your arguments for him against Tivis, but I want to make a few points.

1.  Jeff led the state in scoring, this is true.  But I watched when hettinger got beat by trinity by 30.  Jeff has 14 points with 5 minutes to go and Trinity puts in their JV.  Coach Hill from Hettinger leaves Jeff in and lets him score 12 points in 5 minutes against trinity's JV to get his average!

2. Against Beach Hettinger is up 25 in the fourth quarter.  Jeff plays the entire game.  Gets 30 plus points.  Never sits out in the fourth with a 25 point lead!  These are not the only two times this happened.  The Hettinger staff made sure he lead the state in scoring!  He averaged over 20 shots per game.  Tivis shot only 15 times per game.  Just think of the numbers Payton and his entire team could have put up if they would have been allowed to play all their fourth quarters!......Against Bowman in the regular Season Bowman clears there bench with about 2 and half minutes to go with a 20 point lead, and hettinger leaves smith in to get his average.  Yes he did lead the state in scoring, but you have to look beyond the numbers!

3.  You say that Smith Guards the other teams best player.  Hettinger probably played a total of 10 minutes of man to man all year.  They played a trap zone the entire year!!  He did not guard anyone's best player because they play ZONE!!!

4.  He does not bring the ball up, Lucas Doerr did that.  He may have at times, but he did not play the true point guard!

4.  Don't tell me Smith does not have talent around him.  He may not have Derek Pauly on his team, but four the last 4 years Hettinger has returned AT LEAST three starters, same as Bowman.  Hettinger has been picked pre season each and every year to make regions, yet they have only made the regions once!!!!  Payton Tivis's career record against Hettinger 5 wins and one loss.  Hettinger has underachieved every year for the last four years!  Payton Tivis had played in four district title games, and won three, and of those four, in two of them Bowman was the UNDERDOG!!!

5.  Payton gets 7 rebounds a game WITH DEREK PAULEY on his TEAM.  That is tough to do!!!

6.  Yes, Jeff Smith and Payton both won the Senior of the year, but Payton won the REGIONAL Player of the year, and the STATE player of th year.  From what I heard of the district meeting when the voting was done, it was Bowman's coach who said that even though Payton got all the votes, he did not feel it right to not honor Jeff, so therefore he proposed to give the award to both of them!!!

This is just my two cents, and I want to STRESS that I LOVE JEFF SMITH as a player, I just feel there are a lot of things that people don't realize about tivis.  They are both fully deserving of all the HYPE!! :)

[theefollman]

hey they are both great players, but tivis was up for Mr. Basketball and i didnt see Smith there. If that is true that there coaching staff left him in when the other team had JV players in or they were up by 25 and he stayed in that is a bunch of crap. That is disrespectful and I dont think anyone would enjoy that being done to them and especially just so a kid could be the state scoring leader.

[carolina blue]

i heard that tivis was left in most of the game against anyone. for example, i heard when bowman beat lemmon by 50 points or so, tivis was still in the game until 4 minutes left in the game. if that is true, that is alittle more disrespectful than smith staying in the game because usually when i team gets up by 30 points or so they decide to take out the starters but to leave him in the game until 4 minutes left is ridiculous. like i said tho, i HEARD this.

another thing, if anyone thinks tivis is not a good defender you are mistaken. in the region 7 title game, he absolutely abused keithley in the 4th quarter. keithley couldn't bring the ball up without being pressured by tivis not to mention got his pocket picked numerous times. besides when you have a great defender like burke  on your team, why waste tivis's energy by guarding the best player when you can put a better defender on that player.

[bball4life]

GET your facts right next time!!

1. Just to let you know in the trinity game smith played the whole game yes, but when the starters left he was at 21 points. and then scored on 2 layups . SO you should REALLY check your stats before you talk or try to bring down a player!.

2. The beach game was parents night. Smith played 4 minutes of the fourth quarter. So half the fourth not the full game. Just like payton playin the whole game against lemmon

3 Yes you were right about the zone thing. But Smith averaged 4 STEALS a game.

4. I can remeber probably 5 times the entire year that smith didnt bring the ball up when he was in. The only time he doesnt is when hettinger is getting pressed. Then he waits to get the ball back once the other team tries trapping the first inbound pass. THen he takes it up. But i cant remeber once where lucas doerr did. Mike fried did when smith was out

(4)-. yes smith does have some talent around him. But look the 2nd highest scorer on hettinger. Smith was 13 points ahead of them. And how many did he have against bowman? 0 points And its not like smith doesnt get  them the ball. He averaged around 4 assists a game along with getting around 8 boards a  game.

5. That is a great accomplishment for tivis getting 7 with pauley i will agree.

6. Here is where i draw the line. You better go back to who ever you heard that from and ask again.  I heard bowmans coach wanted pauley on there with them but no one eles did. any way I heard it was a tie between tivis and smith. And another coach said they should take both seniors. I really highly doubt that payton recieved ALL THE VOTES at  that meeting, but im not for sure just stating opinion.

Next time now your facts before you try to bring a player down. But lets stop, smith and tivis are both great players i enjoyed watching them both play when i had chances and will miss it.

[NATURAL TALENT]

 But lets stop, smith and tivis are both great players i enjoyed watching them both play when i had chances and will miss it.

FINALLY SOMETHING I'LL AGREE WITH!!

[carolina blue]

bball4life and and NATURAL TALENT are completely right. they are both great players.