3 class system-gaining momentum

[Dr. Sports]

The reason teams are having such large co-ops is because their having trouble competing against schools such as Dickinson Trinity, Minot Ryan, and Fargo Oak Grove for example. These schools would be in the middle of the 3 class system. As for a 4 region Class A it wouldn't work because that defeats the purpose of saving teams like St.Mary's, Belcourt, and Valley City from large schools like Minot, Bismarck, and Fargo South. Beulah, Hazen, and Rugby wouldn't survive at the next level. Beulah's program was relieved that it was able to step back down to Class B a few years ago. Bottom line only a three class system would be the answer.

COOP's are not established to compete against the best they are put together because of quanity not quality of players..Three Class System is a JOKE!!! Maybe if kids would be like Jeff Boschee and put in the time he did they would be better..Players like Boschee wanted to compete at high level and become one of the best if more kids would do that their schools would be able to compete. Should we give everybody a chance to play in the state tournament without really having to earn it. What ever happened to having kids learn about how hard work can pay off. People get tired of seeing the same teams in the state tourney, so what!! Beat them and when teams do beat them it is that much more exciting. The three class system is not the answer..If VC and Belcourt are complaining maybe just move VC and Belcourt Down..Last I heard is that St. Mary's chooses to be class A. Every year 8 teams get to go to the state tourney I am not sure and would have to do some research but I would say that at least 25 different schools have gone to the state tournament and that includes Dickinson Trinity 5 times, Minot Ryan 3 or 4 times. So if 25 (my guess) out of the 122 teams make it to the state tourney every 5 years I feel that is a good number. It creates competion and desire for teams that are regulars and teams that would like to be them..LEAVE IT ALONE..If they are going to try to increase the chances of a team to make it to the state tourney go with 16 teams with the first round losers going home..This way the Region 1st and 2nd place teams have a chance..That would be fun because many times a 2nd place team in the region can compete with the whole field and would win it every once in awhile..

The only joke on both quotes is YOOUU.. Nobody said VC or Belcourt were complaining, nobody as far as I know is from those schools are qouting. The truth is SIZE does matter despite your misbelief that SOLELY hard work will get you there does not over come the natural talent you have at your disposal at a large school. Bismarck is Not gonna take Odessa Permia Texas(yeah there would be complianing then) Maddock is not gonna take Minot on it's best day. The biggest complainers are the ones who depend on the SMALLER schools for easy scheduling. Every state has more that 2 classes and if you truly feel that way then abolish B and go to A and put your money where yur mouth is. Get with the program NORTH DAKOTA THAT IS WHY YOUR A DYING STATE.

SO not having a three class system makes North Dakota a Dying State.To put it nicely...Your an idiot!! North Dakota Class B basketball has the best basketball atmosphere of any tournament around!! Keep getting your advice from National Geographic articles!! DS

I'm the idiot noo. I make more sense. To put it harshley your the idiot. Define National Geographic and how pertains to anything I said or sports for that matter.

[Dr. Sports]

Dr.Sports, dickinson follows the rules set forth by the NDHAA. PERIOD. Both the Dickinson Public schools and Trinity abide by the same set of rules set forth by Valley City. I've never had a "problem" living in a town with two schools. TRUST ME, sports does not dictate where I send my kids to school. The quality of education, test scores and what goes on in the classroom determines that. I want my kids to be prepared for college and I don't care how many regional championships their teams win. EDUCATION is why they're in the school they attend.

That is absolutly correct but as a parent you have the most control of what your child does in almost any school setting. Strong parents usually will build strong kids.

[bballuvr]

The sad reality is that in 5-10 years, the landscape of class B basketball might change quite a bit. I think if a lot of us looked at our school's classes in the 7th, 6th, 5th and so on on down, we might see some tough numbers situations. Not everyone, but many will see it.
For example, in District 5, in 2008-09, the number of teams will go from 9 to 7. In 5 years, it will most likely be down to 6 or possibly 5. That scenario is more than likely to be duplicated in several other districts. Not doomsday stuff, just reality.
We will be so watered down with 3 classes. Much of the lustre of the B would be gone. For sure.

I don't think there are many idiots here. Very few actually. Just passionate and emotional fans.

I will admit, I do have some sympathy for VC type teams that have less students in 9-12 than most of their opponents do in 1 class. That is tough.

Many places do not have kids working hard enough to "get over the hump". The reality to me is that:

1. The internet- MSN, etc.
2. Playstation 3, X-Box, etc.........
3. Cell Phones
4. I-pods, etc.
5. 150-300 stations on the dish, etc.
6. The number of kids that have their own vehicles, or easy access to family's vehicles to go about anywhere at anytime.
7. High number of kids with jobs earlier in life.
8.____________________

These are some of the reasons that many kids are not putting in the neccessary time to be "upper level" athletes. These things are not evil, just technology, etc. These things can dominate, and DO, a large amount of time for many people. That much less time in the weightroom, gym, field, etc.


Leave it alone

[cubsfan]

How bout we stop calling each other idiots and play the fun game where we learn each other's name!

[BB11]

The sad reality is that in 5-10 years, the landscape of class B basketball might change quite a bit. I think if a lot of us looked at our school's classes in the 7th, 6th, 5th and so on on down, we might see some tough numbers situations. Not everyone, but many will see it.
For example, in District 5, in 2008-09, the number of teams will go from 9 to 7. In 5 years, it will most likely be down to 6 or possibly 5. That scenario is more than likely to be duplicated in several other districts. Not doomsday stuff, just reality.
We will be so watered down with 3 classes. Much of the lustre of the B would be gone. For sure.

I don't think there are many idiots here. Very few actually. Just passionate and emotional fans.

I will admit, I do have some sympathy for VC type teams that have less students in 9-12 than most of their opponents do in 1 class. That is tough.

Many places do not have kids working hard enough to "get over the hump". The reality to me is that:

1. The internet- MSN, etc.
2. Playstation 3, X-Box, etc.........
3. Cell Phones
4. I-pods, etc.
5. 150-300 stations on the dish, etc.
6. The number of kids that have their own vehicles, or easy access to family's vehicles to go about anywhere at anytime.
7. High number of kids with jobs earlier in life.
8.____________________

These are some of the reasons that many kids are not putting in the neccessary time to be "upper level" athletes. These things are not evil, just technology, etc. These things can dominate, and DO, a large amount of time for many people. That much less time in the weightroom, gym, field, etc.


Leave it alone

[ndlionsfan]

Since this was brought up incorrectly in a previous post, the following is taken straight from pg 29 on the NDHSAA Constitution and ByLaws...

In the instance of a pupil transferring from a public high
school to a private or parochial high school in the same
city, or visa versa, the student shall not be eligible to
represent the new high school in varsity competition for
180 school days.

[Dr. Sports]

Since this was brought up incorrectly in a previous post, the following is taken straight from pg 29 on the NDHSAA Constitution and ByLaws...

In the instance of a pupil transferring from a public high
school to a private or parochial high school in the same
city, or visa versa, the student shall not be to
represent the new high school in varsity competition for
180 school days.

What if the student is located outside the district? For Example I offer the father of a very good student a job. That student will play some how some way. I know of such an incident, a private school offered a father who was a former football coach(also was a teacher) a job if he brought his son over to their school. The child who just completed his freshman year was All-region in football and placed at state in wrestling. However the father declined.
Native Americans often leave their schools to go to bigger schools. Chuck Archambualt, Russ Archambualt, and Wiley Bearstail = Bismarck High. Marlee Finley=mandan Preston White-Grand Forks Red River(lead the state in scoring I believe) Shaunna Knife= currently playing for bottinue
My point is recruiting is not supposed to happen but it does and it's hard to investigate because both parties will deny that it took place.

[BB11]

Since this was brought up incorrectly in a previous post, the following is taken straight from pg 29 on the NDHSAA Constitution and ByLaws...

In the instance of a pupil transferring from a public high
school to a private or parochial high school in the same
city, or visa versa, the student shall not be eligible to
represent the new high school in varsity competition for
180 school days.

I'm not saying this happens because I haven't heard of it - but Minot students wouldn't have to sit out anything if one decided to transfer from Minot High to Our Redeemer's because all Minot schools are under the same District - so kids can go back and forth all year every year if they so desire - EX: Danae Carlson - played BB for Minot High - and volleyball for Our Redeemer's and ran track for Minot High - all in the same year for at least 2 years of her High School career. So that would be one exception.

[Stromer]

Since this was brought up incorrectly in a previous post, the following is taken straight from pg 29 on the NDHSAA Constitution and ByLaws...

In the instance of a pupil transferring from a public high
school to a private or parochial high school in the same
city, or visa versa, the student shall not be eligible to
represent the new high school in varsity competition for
180 school days.

Wouldn't this mean a kid couldn't decide to switch from High to Trinity at the end of the year and be eligible to play football? That doesn't seem right. Or is transferring only considered during the year?

[BBall dominator]

Since this was brought up incorrectly in a previous post, the following is taken straight from pg 29 on the NDHSAA Constitution and ByLaws...

In the instance of a pupil transferring from a public high
school to a private or parochial high school in the same
city, or visa versa, the student shall not be to
represent the new high school in varsity competition for
180 school days.

What if the student is located outside the district? For Example I offer the father of a very good student a job. That student will play some how some way. I know of such an incident, a private school offered a father who was a former football coach(also was a teacher) a job if he brought his son over to their school. The child who just completed his freshman year was All-region in football and placed at state in wrestling. However the father declined.
Native Americans often leave their schools to go to bigger schools. Chuck Archambualt, Russ Archambualt, and Wiley Bearstail = Bismarck High. Marlee Finley=mandan Preston White-Grand Forks Red River(lead the state in scoring I believe) Shaunna Knife= currently playing for bottinue
My point is recruiting is not supposed to happen but it does and it's hard to investigate because both parties will deny that it took place.

I have said this before because I played in a region w/ 2 native american teams and it seemed their teams bascially swapped players and their teams were never the same from beginning to end. I don't know any one of the players you said personally but I do know there was quite an argumenton this site over why ms. Knife went to bottineau and heard from a few people close the situtation that sports was the last thing that led her to move. I don't remember exactly and don't feel like looking throught pages of posts but it was something along the lines of small town jealousy taking place.

[ndlionsfan]

Transferring rules do not apply if a student's parent(s) move into that district. If someone from Velva decides to go to Minot Ryan and one of their parents rents an apt in Minot, they can transfer without sitting out the 180 school days because they have residence in Minot. Minot High, Bishop Ryan, and Our Redeemers are all separate districts so students that live in Minot cannot switch schools without sitting out the 180 days. It used to be only 90 days, but the NDHSAA stepped it up a bit because of so many kids transferring for sports. If a kid from Dickinson High decides to go to Trinity the summer after his Soph year, he would have to sit out his entire Junior year of all sports then would be allowed to play his Senior season. I know what you're saying about Native Americans students switching schools on reservations. I don't know if all of these rules apply to that or not. Or maybe parents move with the students into the new district and then they are not required to sit out. Couldn't tell ya.

[BB11]

Transferring rules do not apply if a student's parent(s) move into that district. If someone from Velva decides to go to Minot Ryan and one of their parents rents an apt in Minot, they can transfer without sitting out the 180 school days because they have residence in Minot. Minot High, Bishop Ryan, and Our Redeemers are all separate districts so students that live in Minot cannot switch schools without sitting out the 180 days. It used to be only 90 days, but the NDHSAA stepped it up a bit because of so many kids transferring for sports. If a kid from Dickinson High decides to go to Trinity the summer after his Soph year, he would have to sit out his entire Junior year of all sports then would be allowed to play his Senior season. I know what you're saying about Native Americans students switching schools on reservations. I don't know if all of these rules apply to that or not. Or maybe parents move with the students into the new district and then they are not required to sit out. Couldn't tell ya.

I don't mean to be redundant - and you could be right - but I always thought the Minot schools are all under one district - that's the only way you could explain Danae Carlson's situation. I know for a fact that she played V-ball for Our Redeemer's and ran track at Minot High - and the more I think about it - I'm sure she played B-ball for Our Redeemer's too. Maybe they have a co-op agreement? I guess that would be the only other way to explain it - I always thought they were one district though. But I could be wrong.

[scruffy]

So....after reading all of the pro's and con's of a three class system...It's time for a summary. The bottom line is this ladies and gentlemen...the three class system in North Dakota is DEAD. It was soundly defeated in a straw vote, and officials of the NDHSAA has stated it is a DEAD issue and now their energy will be focused on redistricting. By the time it's an issue again, I 'm guessing the number of small schools will be reduced by 25%. This is being driven by demographics and economics. Eventually this state will have to look forward and plan for the future accordingly.

[bigpoppakdog]

OK....I have to admit it............I WAS WRONG........if you transfer from a lets say Bismarck High to Shiloh or vice versa you do have to sit out 180 days...that was a new rule the NDHSAA implemented this year.....it specifically deals with private schools....now if you lived in a small town and then transferred in you could go to whatever school you wanted w/o penalty.....you can transfer within district and play JUNIOR VARSITY, but cannot play on varsity until 180 days....

[magic715]

Since this was brought up incorrectly in a previous post, the following is taken straight from pg 29 on the NDHSAA Constitution and ByLaws...

In the instance of a pupil transferring from a public high
school to a private or parochial high school in the same
city, or visa versa, the student shall not be eligible to
represent the new high school in varsity competition for
180 school days.

I'm not saying this happens because I haven't heard of it - but Minot students wouldn't have to sit out anything if one decided to transfer from Minot High to Our Redeemer's because all Minot schools are under the same District - so kids can go back and forth all year every year if they so desire - EX: Danae Carlson - played BB for Minot High - and volleyball for Our Redeemer's and ran track for Minot High - all in the same year for at least 2 years of her High School career. So that would be one exception.

If i remember correctly, Denae Carlson, did play volleyball for OR, and basketball and track for Minot High, but when she was a jr and or sr OR did not have varsity girls basketball, only a jv program, i am not 100% sure, but i am pretty sure thats how that happened, or she tranferred to minot high her senior yr after basketball or volleyball her jr yr so only had to sit out 90 days to play basketball the following yr. But within Minot , u do have to sit out the now 180 school days just like everyone else and even back when Denae played, so it happened something like that.

[BHoopz]

What gets me with the 3-class system idea is who is it really going to benefit? The only real schools/towns that will benefit will be schools like, for example, Valley City. They are a Class A school that hasn't competed well in Class A sports in quite a few years. By going to a 3-class system they would be able to better compete. The argument that some districts are losing teams to co-ops is a valid one. But if we went to a 3-class system those same schools would still be playing against each other, so what does that solve? ND doesn't have enough schools or people to go to a 3-class system for it to benefit everyone. It would benefit a select few, and the rest would be in the same position they are now, but instead in different classes with perhaps even less opponents to play against. SD went to a 3-class system and IMO it ruined basketball in that state. The State B in ND is one of the best things ND has going for it. Moving to a 3-class system would destroy that, and IMO would destroy ND basketball overall. Leave ND basketball where it is, if it's not broke don't "fix it". If schools have to co-op and we lose a few teams in select districts, there isn't much we can do about it, rural population is declining regardless of the number of classes we have in ND. I'm glad to see other people agree with this and I hope the 3-class system idea is done for a while, and hopefully forever.

[GOOD OF THE TEAM]

So....after reading all of the pro's and con's of a three class system...It's time for a summary. The bottom line is this ladies and gentlemen...the three class system in North Dakota is DEAD. It was soundly defeated in a straw vote, and officials of the NDHSAA has stated it is a DEAD issue and now their energy will be focused on redistricting. By the time it's an issue again, I 'm guessing the number of small schools will be reduced by 25%. This is being driven by demographics and economics. Eventually this state will have to look forward and plan for the future accordingly.

I am not for a three class system...but I am for being proactive in adapting to the changing demographics. The simple fact is more families (athletes) are moving from the small towns to the bigger cities. Allowing smaller schools to form co-ops is one way of adapting to the changing demographics. Another would be to have the larger schools field more than one varsity team. For example, if the student population in the Fargo - West Fargo districts has grown almost 40% the past fifteen years, why do they still have same number of varsity teams?