i need to vent about how badly CLASS B NEEDS A SHOT CLOCK!

[ugottaearnit]

Do you the fans enjoy watching games where "keep away" is played for the entire forth quarter? Do you the fans enjoy watching teams that play a "keep away" style (coaches call it ball control) throughout the entire game!!!! How exciting is it to watch offensive possessions that last the better part of a minute..if not longer...Not because open shots are not available to be taken, not that the other teams defense is that tough, but that the real reason for this style of play is that the teams head coach knows that the only way to make up for his teams inferior athleticism (which is what the “PRO” argument for this strategy ultimately comes down to) is to chew up as much clock as possible....Thus, limiting the opponents possessions. Controlling your players like robots may do something for a coach’s ego and career win column....i guess this can be considered a "shot" at some of those coaches (we all know who they are) who are listed in the discussion “Best Coach In Class B Boys Basketball” because that’s exactly what they do. If you want to know their true skills as a coach, wait until a shot clock is implemented.
One guy I had this discussion with said to me in an angry tone “well it’s no different from a pro football team that chooses a ball control offence!! “ Which, I did my best to explain that in all football there is a play clock to limit the amount of time a team can run off. A team simply cannot run the football and then allow for the game clock to run indiscriminately until they feel like running another play! Class A has had a shot clock for some years now, so why can't class B at least have it in the post season. Lets see some entertaining class B basketball again! Lets see some athletes go to state...instead of some robots!

[nadal11]

class b does need a shot clock badly!! the game just isn't the same without one! When a team holds the ball for a minute plus at the end of the game is just wrong!

[mdk23]

I was looking for the kind of words to use to describe how much I disagree with you. I found an article that says what it is I wanted to say except maybe in nicer terms. The article also covers a few other points about high school basketball. I suggest you read it. Here's the URL...

http://bangornews.com/news/t/sports.asp ... zoneid=501

The part I found interesting was that only 7 states have high school shot clocks... Hmm... That tells me right there that 86% of the country is currently not using them. That speaks for itself.

[The Schwab]

Do you the fans enjoy watching games where "keep away" is played for the entire forth quarter? Do you the fans enjoy watching teams that play a "keep away" style (coaches call it ball control) throughout the entire game!!!! How exciting is it to watch offensive possessions that last the better part of a minute..if not longer...Not because open shots are not available to be taken, not that the other teams defense is that tough, but that the real reason for this style of play is that the teams head coach knows that the only way to make up for his teams inferior athleticism (which is what the “PRO” argument for this strategy ultimately comes down to) is to chew up as much clock as possible....Thus, limiting the opponents possessions. Controlling your players like robots may do something for a coach’s ego and career win column....i guess this can be considered a "shot" at some of those coaches (we all know who they are) who are listed in the discussion “Best Coach In Class B Boys Basketball” because that’s exactly what they do. If you want to know their true skills as a coach, wait until a shot clock is implemented.
One guy I had this discussion with said to me in an angry tone “well it’s no different from a pro football team that chooses a ball control offence!! “ Which, I did my best to explain that in all football there is a play clock to limit the amount of time a team can run off. A team simply cannot run the football and then allow for the game clock to run indiscriminately until they feel like running another play! Class A has had a shot clock for some years now, so why can't class B at least have it in the post season. Lets see some entertaining class B basketball again! Lets see some athletes go to state...instead of some robots!

So Your basically saying that all the coaches mentioned in the "Best Coaches" topic wouldn't win if there was a shot clock?....GOOD ONE.....or better yet....are you just taking a shot at dave nelson.....get a few more than two posts on here before you start calling out some of the best coaches in the state.

[baller01]

The only time a shot clock would even be a factor is at end of games. But like SCC said, get a steal or commit a foul if you want the ball back. How often does a team go down and take more then 35 seconds to get a shot up? Not too often. MAYBE once in awhile during a game a team might have the ball for more then 35 seconds but like I said, the only time it's going to make a big difference is at the end up games. But like SCC said, get a steal or foul. Problem solved.

[ndlionsfan]

All these people complaining about needing a shot clock are just stupid. I've seen a lot of bball this year and I haven't thought once that it was slow paced or "keep away". Tell me what games are you watching please? Mdk23 said it best....only 7 states have shots in high school bball so obviously this is not even a problem.

[baseball]

most people i have seen talk about a shot clock while at a game are the parents of the team trailing late in the game. the ironic thing is, the team losing and complaining about the shot clock will sit back in a zone and let the team run as much time as they want. if you want the ball back, get up and pressure the ball and the passing lanes. ball pressure will force the player to try and make a play and perhaps force a pass where it shouldnt go or even a 5 count. if you sit in a zone all game, dont complain about a shot clock.

and as for MayPort and Trinity....they have more 35+ second possessions on defense then they do offense. mainly because their defense is so tough that they dont allow the other team to get a shot so i think the shot clock would benefit teams like that. they wouldnt have to spend as much time on defense and the other team would take a lot more bad shots then they would without the shot clock.

next game you go to watch the scoreboard and come back here and tell us who played and how many times a possession took more then 35 seconds please?? its not a big deal and wont be, people just want a shot clock because the NBA and colleges have them. that and people who think class A is better then class B just like to use that as a reason ...."cuz you dont use a shot clock"

my vote....no shot clock, play pressure defense if u want the ball back

[mdk23]

Exactly. When did basketball become a game where a team should only play offense? As long as I can remember, basketball has had two sides.... Offense and DEFENSE. And if the defense can't stop the offense, then I think the offense should be able to take as much time off the clock as they want.

[baseball]

Exactly. When did basketball become a game where a team should only play offense? As long as I can remember, basketball has had two sides.... Offense and DEFENSE. And if the defense can't stop the offense, then I think the offense should be able to take as much time off the clock as they want.

I have to use them again becuase they are the one team i follow very closely, but watch one game of the Kansas Jayhawks and look how they play defense. Chalmers leads the conference in steals and most of them are off the ball. Robinson is workin his tail off harrassing the ballhandler and Chalmers jumps the lane when he tries to get rid of it becuase he doesnt want to have the ball anymore with Robinson on him. play defense like that and you wouldnt have to worry about a shot clock, that and you get 10-15 points a game on fast break layups. there are so many ways to play a game so a shot clock would have no effect, you just have to find which one fits your team...

[gobison44]

Class B does need a shot clock. When it's under 3 minutes and your down by 6 points, game is over. Not even to make the game more exciting for fans, but this is about the players and players learn how to battle it out in the final minutes of a game. They'll know, if they ever go on to college ball, what its like to manage a shot clock and possessions, etc.

[baseball]

Class B does need a shot clock. When it's under 3 minutes and your down by 6 points, game is over. Not even to make the game more exciting for fans, but this is about the players and players learn how to battle it out in the final minutes of a game. They'll know, if they ever go on to college ball, what its like to manage a shot clock and possessions, etc.

back to a team having to man up and play some defense, 6 points is only 2 possessions and can be erased in less then 15 seconds if you apply pressure and force turnovers, apply a press, trap corners, deny passing lanes, do them things and the game is not over...even if its under 1 minute left.

[Tmagicstorm_22]

class b does need a shot clock badly!! the game just isn't the same without one! When a team holds the ball for a minute plus at the end of the game is just wrong!

The other team should either get the steal or commit a foul. No shot clock is necessary.

I agree.. class b does not need a shot clock..most teams don't abuse not having a shot-clock..although there are a few like dickinson trinity but it's not that big of an issue

[baseball]

class b does need a shot clock badly!! the game just isn't the same without one! When a team holds the ball for a minute plus at the end of the game is just wrong!

The other team should either get the steal or commit a foul. No shot clock is necessary.

I agree.. class b does not need a shot clock..most teams don't abuse not having a shot-clock..although there are a few like dickinson trinity but it's not that big of an issue

i have an honest question....how many people who complain about stalling, actually know the difference between stalling and patience? Trinity is not a stalling team, yet they are very patient on the offensive end. alot of Class B teams pass hte ball maybe 3-4 times and jack up a shot, just because Trinity moves the ball and gets an open look does not mean they stall.

[homer]

the lost art -the good jump shot and good defense. always been without the shot-clock always should be nothing wrong with being alittle different than class A. if they get a shot clock then they better get rid of the stupid north dakota coaches seat belt rule. a ridiculous rule that someone at the ndhsaa though they better invent to make sure everyone knows that they still work around there.

[baseball]

if your going to change anything about the game change the quarters to halves....

[ugottaearnit]

I was looking for the kind of words to use to describe how much I disagree with you. I found an article that says what it is I wanted to say except maybe in nicer terms. The article also covers a few other points about high school basketball. I suggest you read it. Here's the URL...

http://bangornews.com/news/t/sports.asp ... zoneid=501

The part I found interesting was that only 7 states have high school shot clocks... Hmm... That tells me right there that 86% of the country is currently not using them. That speaks for itself.

I think that you need to read the readers comments to that article. I did, and i found this qoute that speaks for itself and adds more ammo to my side of the debate.

Rick of Bourne, MA - 01/09/08
Hi Ron, I used to coach against you when I was at Sumner High in the early 1990's. I never thought the shot clock would be a good idea but over the last 12 years of coaching in Ma. I can't imagine playing without one.I think it speeds up the game and lets the players decide the game not the coaches. It is also a reward for playing good defense. It reduces intentionally fouling players, to get the ball back to early in the game. We use a thirty and it does not come into play that often. I would like to see it extended to 40 seconds.

[mdk23]

Two points here. First, you want to talk about a comment to an article? Isn't that basically what we are doing here? You wrote the article and we all commented. Yeah, I know people have different views and that some people like it. Tell me something new. At least I added something new to this conversation. My second point. You agree with the guy who made the comment? You didn't want teams to stall for a minute but you are OK with 40 seconds? C'mon. And to those of you who say do it because the colleges do, do you want the three point line moved back next year because the colleges are going to? Heck, let's make it all like the NBA. No traveling, extreme continuation, and six fouls.

[ugottaearnit]

Do you the fans enjoy watching games where "keep away" is played for the entire forth quarter? Do you the fans enjoy watching teams that play a "keep away" style (coaches call it ball control) throughout the entire game!!!! How exciting is it to watch offensive possessions that last the better part of a minute..if not longer...Not because open shots are not available to be taken, not that the other teams defense is that tough, but that the real reason for this style of play is that the teams head coach knows that the only way to make up for his teams inferior athleticism (which is what the “PRO” argument for this strategy ultimately comes down to) is to chew up as much clock as possible....Thus, limiting the opponents possessions. Controlling your players like robots may do something for a coach’s ego and career win column....i guess this can be considered a "shot" at some of those coaches (we all know who they are) who are listed in the discussion “Best Coach In Class B Boys Basketball” because that’s exactly what they do. If you want to know their true skills as a coach, wait until a shot clock is implemented.
One guy I had this discussion with said to me in an angry tone “well it’s no different from a pro football team that chooses a ball control offence!! “ Which, I did my best to explain that in all football there is a play clock to limit the amount of time a team can run off. A team simply cannot run the football and then allow for the game clock to run indiscriminately until they feel like running another play! Class A has had a shot clock for some years now, so why can't class B at least have it in the post season. Lets see some entertaining class B basketball again! Lets see some athletes go to state...instead of some robots!

So Your basically saying that all the coaches mentioned in the "Best Coaches" topic wouldn't win if there was a shot clock?....GOOD ONE.....or better yet....are you just taking a shot at dave nelson.....get a few more than two posts on here before you start calling out some of the best coaches in the state.

being a rookie to your blog weakens my arguement?? as for the the head coach of MPCG, i wonder what you think about all those district and regional games that were played at Mayville State college. i suppose that wouldn't help out a little bit in the postseason. I wonder if the local kids ever attended open gyms on campus? not like that could be any advantage

[baseball]

Do you the fans enjoy watching games where "keep away" is played for the entire forth quarter? Do you the fans enjoy watching teams that play a "keep away" style (coaches call it ball control) throughout the entire game!!!! How exciting is it to watch offensive possessions that last the better part of a minute..if not longer...Not because open shots are not available to be taken, not that the other teams defense is that tough, but that the real reason for this style of play is that the teams head coach knows that the only way to make up for his teams inferior athleticism (which is what the “PRO” argument for this strategy ultimately comes down to) is to chew up as much clock as possible....Thus, limiting the opponents possessions. Controlling your players like robots may do something for a coach’s ego and career win column....i guess this can be considered a "shot" at some of those coaches (we all know who they are) who are listed in the discussion “Best Coach In Class B Boys Basketball” because that’s exactly what they do. If you want to know their true skills as a coach, wait until a shot clock is implemented.
One guy I had this discussion with said to me in an angry tone “well it’s no different from a pro football team that chooses a ball control offence!! “ Which, I did my best to explain that in all football there is a play clock to limit the amount of time a team can run off. A team simply cannot run the football and then allow for the game clock to run indiscriminately until they feel like running another play! Class A has had a shot clock for some years now, so why can't class B at least have it in the post season. Lets see some entertaining class B basketball again! Lets see some athletes go to state...instead of some robots!

So Your basically saying that all the coaches mentioned in the "Best Coaches" topic wouldn't win if there was a shot clock?....GOOD ONE.....or better yet....are you just taking a shot at dave nelson.....get a few more than two posts on here before you start calling out some of the best coaches in the state.

being a rookie to your blog weakens my arguement?? as for the the head coach of MPCG, i wonder what you think about all those district and regional games that were played at Mayville State college. i suppose that wouldn't help out a little bit in the postseason. I wonder if the local kids ever attended open gyms on campus? not like that could be any advantage

it weakens your arguement because you come on here bashing a whole class of basketball and the best coaches in that class. once you post some respectable facts and not just bash people you will earn credibility and people will take you seriously.

having said that....about a kid going to open gyms on campus? why shouldnt he? hes out there working and getting better so thats why its an advantage. Jamestown isnt great and they have a college, Valley city isnt great and they have a college, bottineau isnt great and they have a college, St. MAry's isnt good and they have 2 colleges, etc....if the kid goes to an open gym on campus, more power to him for working and TRYING to get better while people like you sit at home and say its not fair instead of working to get better themselves. or are you saying its an advantage because they are used to the court? if thats the case they should just take all Region 3 teams out of the Stutsman county tournament and cancel the Bismarck CC jamboree the years that the state tourney is held there. the only way going to the open gyms on campus help them in the postseason is because they improved by doing it, not because they know which light glares off the backboard or some other bogus excuse people use as home court advantage. MayPort and Trinity are successful, not because they stall and minimize the number of possessions in a game, but instead make the most of every possession they do get.

[baseball]

I was looking for the kind of words to use to describe how much I disagree with you. I found an article that says what it is I wanted to say except maybe in nicer terms. The article also covers a few other points about high school basketball. I suggest you read it. Here's the URL...

http://bangornews.com/news/t/sports.asp ... zoneid=501

The part I found interesting was that only 7 states have high school shot clocks... Hmm... That tells me right there that 86% of the country is currently not using them. That speaks for itself.

I think that you need to read the readers comments to that article. I did, and i found this qoute that speaks for itself and adds more ammo to my side of the debate.

Rick of Bourne, MA - 01/09/08
Hi Ron, I used to coach against you when I was at Sumner High in the early 1990's. I never thought the shot clock would be a good idea but over the last 12 years of coaching in Ma. I can't imagine playing without one.I think it speeds up the game and lets the players decide the game not the coaches. It is also a reward for playing good defense. It reduces intentionally fouling players, to get the ball back to early in the game. We use a thirty and it does not come into play that often. I would like to see it extended to 40 seconds.

it also weakens the armor of your arguement when he says it doesnt come into play that often and that he wants it EXTENDED even though it doesnt come into play. how come its only when a team loses they want a shot clock? if they are winning they have no problem standing at the halfline running 30+ sconds off the clock, but once the opponent does it bring on the shot clock

[cubsfan]

I remember a couple years ago when Cavalier had their team that went to state in 2004. In the semis at regionals Hillsboro had a 22 point lead. They extended it to 25 early in the 3rd quarter. Cavalier stormed all the way back and eventually won by playing pressure defense. That is probably the best job I have ever seen a defense play is during that second half.

[baseball]

perfect example of what ive been talking about about getting up and playin defense and getting back in the game. how many times this year have we heard so and so was down double digits in the second half and came back and won...

[toughregion2]

Totally disagree with the shot clock issue. The poster stated that football has a play clock well in hs football they also have a mercy clock. Do we have a mercy clock in basketball also so the team that is down 90-12 can spare that extra minute of embaressment

[nadal11]

lets just face it that we definently need a shot clock, but I dont think it will ever happen....which not cool, but its just the way its going to be.

[Hinsa]

Let's just face it? Have you been reading these posts? People have laid out tons of reasons why we DON'T need a shot clock!

Let's face it, we DON'T need a shot clock for all the reasons listed above.