CHARGE!!!

[ddeshields2002]

Who do you believe is the best charge taker in years past?

[cubsfan]

Who do you believe is the best charge taker in years past?

Ryan Baldock

[Luke_J32]

Baldock is good, but I would have to go with Tim Schemp from Larimore. He would get on average 3-4 a game and he was so good at it he made it convincing even though he was usually twice the size of the other guy. I remeber little guards going in to him and him making himself fall so hard the floor shakes.

[Indians Alumni]

You know what gets me going is "floppers"! For instance, a big man 235+ lbs, taking a charge from a guy 120 lbs soaking wet! Not only is it rediculous, but it looks that way! No way should a ref ever call that!

[basketballer]

Mark Bakkum- Although imo he "flopped" a lot, it worked. Regardless he was good at taking the charge.

[baseball]

why cant a 235 lb guy take a charge against 120 lb kid? the rule is that if yoru feet are set and they are out of control its and offensive foul...doesnt matter how big they are

[basketballer]

why cant a 235 lb guy take a charge against 120 lb kid? the rule is that if yoru feet are set and they are out of control its and offensive foul...doesnt matter how big they are

I agree. I think at times the big guys can get picked on because they're bigger. If they are set and the offensive player is out of control it is a charge no matter if he is bigger or smaller.

[bballfan_05]

why cant a 235 lb guy take a charge against 120 lb kid? the rule is that if yoru feet are set and they are out of control its and offensive foul...doesnt matter how big they are

I agree. I think at times the big guys can get picked on because they're bigger. If they are set and the offensive player is out of control it is a charge no matter if he is bigger or smaller.

boy does that hurt when your the 120 some pound guy and get flattened by the 230 guy.

[Mauer07]

the Ultimate Floppster in basketball history is Vlade Divac haha

[ndfan]

the Ultimate Floppster in basketball history is Vlade Divac haha

I dont know derek fisher was real good at it when the lakers were winning championships. In North Dakota i guess i never paid enough attention to it.

[thundercat 99]

the Ultimate Floppster in basketball history is Vlade Divac haha

Ya, when him and Arvudas Sabonis from the Trailblazers went at it, the court took a beating from those big bodies hitting the foor all the time!

[7-11]

Baldock is good, but I would have to go with Tim Schemp from Larimore. He would get on average 3-4 a game and he was so good at it he made it convincing even though he was usually twice the size of the other guy. I remeber little guards going in to him and him making himself fall so hard the floor shakes.

Schempp at 6'2", 230 lbs. took more flops than Dennis Rodman. Can't believe officials bought into it. Teams got smart to it though; he'd flop early before the contact, and then not be back up to rebound and they got an easy put back. By season end, it backfired.

[north_border_eagles2106]

The only time they should give a big guy the benefit of the doubt on charges is if the offensive player dips his shoulder into him to make space. Sometimes a guard will be driving past him and the big guy isn't quick enough to stay with him so as soon as they make a little contact the big guy falls over and gets the call. I am a forward/center when I play and I think its such a cowardly way to play basketball. Most of the time the guards aren't so out of control that he would actually knock him over and then they fall over like they are guarding Shaq. If it's an obvious "Flop" they should be given a warning and then a technical.

[sportsperson]

Baldock. Hands down.

[Indians Alumni]

NBE, I agree, If a kid is flopping around out there, he should be giving one warning, then followed with a Tech! He can actually hurt a kid or himself doing that. That is not honest ball, Stand there and take the hit, let the guy knock you over, that is a player control foul/Charge.

[Hinsa]

As a matter of fact the rule is that if a kid flops he can be charged with a "T" with no warning. You rarely see it called but that is the rule. It's considered an "unsportsmanlike act."

[north_border_eagles2106]

As a matter of fact the rule is that if a kid flops he can be charged with a "T" with no warning. You rarely see it called but that is the rule. It's considered an "unsportsmanlike act."

I guess I didn't know that, Most of the refs around the state must not know it because I've never seen it called or heard of it called ever. I've seen some pretty bad ones in my life but I'm assuming it would have to be one of Vlade-level flop for it to be called that way. I still think the refs should just make it a no call sometimes when its a flop but its not so obvious that its showing up the other team or unsportsmanlike. Flopping is a cowards way to play defense.

[grizzfan]

You might consider it a cowards way to play defense . . . and yes everybody gets mad if there is a kid on the other team flopping every other time down the floor . . . but if a player on your team flops and gets a foul called on your opponents best player are you not going to go over and tell him nice play?

[north_border_eagles2106]

You might consider it a cowards way to play defense . . . and yes everybody gets mad if there is a kid on the other team flopping every other time down the floor . . . but if a player on your team flops and gets a foul called on your opponents best player are you not going to go over and tell him nice play?

Well I'm not going to go over there and yell at him but if that happens where its an obvious flop on the guy I always tell them not to rely on that. Trying to get a charge called on someone through flopping every time is like flipping a coin. It's not a strategy I would suggest to plan on using because it will come back and backfire on you eventually.

[Hinsa]

So if a defender obtains legal guarding position and a dribbler is coming at the defender, what should the defender do? Hold his/her ground and knock the dribbler down? Then it's a defensive foul.

The normal consequence of a defender establishing position and a dribbler running into the defender is the defender gets knocked over backwards. That's an offensive foul.

I'm just trying to figure out where you would say the line is between a flop and a legitimate charge, and how you tell the difference.

Drawing charges by obtaining good defensive position is good defense to me.

[ddeshields2002]

As a matter of fact the rule is that if a kid flops he can be charged with a "T" with no warning. You rarely see it called but that is the rule. It's considered an "unsportsmanlike act."

I guess I didn't know that, Most of the refs around the state must not know it because I've never seen it called or heard of it called ever. I've seen some pretty bad ones in my life but I'm assuming it would have to be one of Vlade-level flop for it to be called that way. I still think the refs should just make it a no call sometimes when its a flop but its not so obvious that its showing up the other team or unsportsmanlike. Flopping is a cowards way to play defense.

There's nothing wrong with playing defense like that. When you have a verticle like Schempp's, thats pretty much what you have to rely on. His verticle I believe was like 20. He wasn't going to block anybody. It's the offensive players fault for running into the defensive player. If a defensive player has position, he has that right to the spot on the floor. Schempp was smart by what he did. He may have given up points, but thats good strategy. If you can force a coach to take out the 1st or 2nd best player, that changes the game plan. By the way, Seth Mathison was really bad while trying to flop during districts.

[HS Ballers]

I think referees are getting to "charge happy." Any idiot can fall backwards when they have no shot at stoping someone. And its stupid how you can stand straight up and down simply holding your own ground and still get a foul called on you. Unless you surrender to the offensive player and crumble.

[north_border_eagles2106]

As a matter of fact the rule is that if a kid flops he can be charged with a "T" with no warning. You rarely see it called but that is the rule. It's considered an "unsportsmanlike act."

I guess I didn't know that, Most of the refs around the state must not know it because I've never seen it called or heard of it called ever. I've seen some pretty bad ones in my life but I'm assuming it would have to be one of Vlade-level flop for it to be called that way. I still think the refs should just make it a no call sometimes when its a flop but its not so obvious that its showing up the other team or unsportsmanlike. Flopping is a cowards way to play defense.

There's nothing wrong with playing defense like that. When you have a verticle like Schempp's, thats pretty much what you have to rely on. His verticle I believe was like 20. He wasn't going to block anybody. It's the offensive players fault for running into the defensive player. If a defensive player has position, he has that right to the spot on the floor. Schempp was smart by what he did. He may have given up points, but thats good strategy. If you can force a coach to take out the 1st or 2nd best player, that changes the game plan. By the way, Seth Mathison was really bad while trying to flop during districts.

Ok, I don't know why you are going through Tim Schempp's defensive strategy as a point to me like I was bashing him. I never said anything about Tim Schempp, nor did I see him play much so I don't have an opinion about his game. And someone the size of Tim Schempp should be able to hold his own and force guys out of the paint which is also good defense. You can't hold it against the offensive player because Schempp isn't the most athletic big guy on the court. If he goes in soft on Schemp he won't get anywhere and shempp will push him around all night. You'd want a guy like that to be physical with your opponents as a coach. Another thing, throwing out Seth Mathison's name. Why? I didn't once say that it's ok if you flop and are from only from North Border. I have played with and against floppers my whole life and I'm just saying I don't like it. Strategy sure, if you know a guy plays a little out of control and know you can get a foul called on him with a charge call go for it. This whole topic I've just been saying I hate when players flop. The post above yours said something about drawing the line between a flop and a legit charge. Well I didn't think that would be to hard to tell. Watch a basketball game in the near future, you'll see players flop and players take a charge. It happens all the time. An example of a legitimate charge would be if a team is out on a fast break and someone gets the pass running full speed, starts his dribble and can't slow down in time before running over the defense. The whole concept of falling down is just the last step in drawing a charge. An example a flop would be anything you see out of Vlade Divac. One other thing Hinsa, if you hold your ground who's to say you'll knock them down. If you are in position you don't need to collapse to the floor as soon as contact is made. If you knock the offensive player to the floor you obviously did something to cause that. I agree that drawing a charge is good defense but flopping isn't.

[baller01]

So you are saying making the team turn the ball over and give your team another chance to score is bad defense? I'm not saying the guy touches you and you fly back screaming out loud, that is a little too much. But a good defender that sees the defense a little bit[b][/b] out of control is going to make it look as real as a charge can look to get his team the ball back. You say flopping is the wrong way to play defense? I say anytime you can draw a foul on an oppenent and get the ball back for your team you played good defense.

[bballer2]

Mark Bakkum- Although imo he "flopped" a lot, it worked. Regardless he was good at taking the charge.

haha come on man i never EVER flopped... haha nahh man ur prolly right