Are Refs in ND taking over the game?

[beavof77]

You go to games and you watch some of these refs make unreal calls from all over the court. They are calling travels on good spin moves and agressive defensive plays. They seem to be taking away from the kids natuarl athletic talent. Does anyone agree or have any comments?

[nativegolfer]

The one thing that really bothers me about the reffing in our region is that there is no such thing as a blocked shot.  99% of the time when a player goes up and blocks a shot a foul is called.  Granted some are fouls but not every one!  And alot of the time the calls that are made are anticipated without there really being a foul.  I donn't know how it is in other regions but thats what it is in region 4.

[fruit snack]

ill agree with u....almost every time the refs blow the whistle be4 there is even contact.....they just see the defender go up for the block and just automatically blow the whistle

[ClassBballa]

fruit snack agreeing with someone.....has he gone mad

[ace]

Fouls on people going for blocked shots is getting to be kinda ridiculous... yes especially in region 4 and my guess is that it isnt that way in all the regions

[ClassBballa]

if you go somewhere a good distance from your town and get refs from there it can be totally different to play. Some refs let the game get pretty physical and some call everything. Personally i like the phsicality. Let them play.

[project-pat]

That's how montana refs are, they let basically anything happen.

[ClassBballa]

That's how montana refs are, they let basically anything happen.

We don't see any of them in our area but it sounds like fun to me.

[NBE2007]

I hear from some ball players that the MN refs like it to get physical too

[Indians Alumni]

Do you think a Three man crew will help eliminate any of this or would it add to the frustration?

[ClassBballa]

Do you think a Three man crew will help eliminate any of this or would it add to the frustration?

I have seen a couple of games this year with three refs and it doesn't seem to be any different. Alot of class B refs aren't use to having three out there. After they get comfortable it may be a little different.

[hoop_fan1]

I agree.  Many calls get made before the play is even over-too much anticipation. ANd yes, games in MN get more physical.  A three man crew doesn't seem to improve things any, from what I've seen.  The only case where I feel it's good is on a big floor, and the refs can't cover the ground- then 3 is a good option- but use 3 refs that have worked together before- they are a team also-more experience=better results.

[NDSportsFan]

 I hated those stupid anticipation fouls back when I played.  I remember how shocked I was to watch a college game live and see how physical it got inside.

[Indians Alumni]

I agree.  Many calls get made before the play is even over-too much anticipation. ANd yes, games in MN get more physical.  A three man crew doesn't seem to improve things any, from what I've seen.  The only case where I feel it's good is on a big floor, and the refs can't cover the ground- then 3 is a good option- but use 3 refs that have worked together before- they are a team also-more experience=better results.

I agree, and I also love to see the big men bump down low.  I hate anticipated calls, especially when the ref is out of position and behind the play.  I remember those to many times when I was playing.  I was not able to move in the middle without being called for a foul.  It took refs three years to realize that I was a big man and allowed to move around.  I finally started getting calls my senior year

[sodadrinker]

i dont think a three man crew is even as good as two.  i would rather have two infact.  i think three men crews tend to get more lazy or expect one of their other partners to blow the whistle in certain situations and nothing is called becuz they weight for each other to make the call.

[knights4]

The thing i hate the most is when there is a play down low like a blocked shot and the top ref makes the call when it's obviously the bottom guys call and if it was a foul he would call it. Our center just fouled out last night because of that and the ref down low said it was clean. And i agree i don't like the three man crews at all.

[mdk23]

I am going to add to this topic from a ref's point of view. You may or may not agree but this is how I see it. The game changes. It has and it will continue to. Ten years ago, you didnt see the spin moves, the fancy dribbles, and the fade away shots like you do now. Players progress every year, refs do not. The majority of the refs that I know or have seen ref have been around a long time. They started reffing in a day when basketball was purely fundamentals. And pardon me, but pure fundamentals are being compromised. I have been to quite a few high school games this year and I have seen very few players that know fundamental post moves. This is not good or bad, it happens and we deal with it, but like players, refs will adjust too. It is just gonna take some time. I really don't want to come across as a jerk to anyone, but if you have never reffed a game at the varsity level or higher, then you don't know how hard it is. If your response to that is, "It can't be that hard" then I will look for your name to be on the list of registered officials for next year. I know for a fact there is a need for more in almost all areas of this state.

[Flyer]

I am going to add to this topic from a ref's point of view. You may or may not agree but this is how I see it. The game changes. It has and it will continue to. Ten years ago, you didnt see the spin moves, the fancy dribbles, and the fade away shots like you do now. Players progress every year, refs do not. The majority of the refs that I know or have seen ref have been around a long time. They started reffing in a day when basketball was purely fundamentals. And pardon me, but pure fundamentals are being compromised. I have been to quite a few high school games this year and I have seen very few players that know fundamental post moves. This is not good or bad, it happens and we deal with it, but like players, refs will adjust too. It is just gonna take some time. I really don't want to come across as a jerk to anyone, but if you have never reffed a game at the varsity level or higher, then you don't know how hard it is. If your response to that is, "It can't be that hard" then I will look for your name to be on the list of registered officials for next year. I know for a fact there is a need for more in almost all areas of this state.

I agree. It is harder than you think it is and it is basically a thankless job in terms of pleasing everyone. Many refs work games because they love the game of basketball, some work for the extra pay check, which isn't that much, so I don't believe many are working to get the extra money. There are many other ways to pick up some extra cash. No ref is going to call a perfect game, so get used to it because it is basically impossible..I feel consistancy is what all coaches and players would like (physical or touchy) and that is what the association should begin to stress. All in all I feel some refs see the floor and can react to a call and some do not have the capability some of the best refs have. One other point I feel refs that let games get physical are refs that do not get the big games. JMO

[The Schwab]

As to the Point of 3 ref system, I'm totally against it....I think they should stick with two man crews.

[NDSportsFan]

I am going to add to this topic from a ref's point of view. You may or may not agree but this is how I see it. The game changes. It has and it will continue to. Ten years ago, you didnt see the spin moves, the fancy dribbles, and the fade away shots like you do now. Players progress every year, refs do not. The majority of the refs that I know or have seen ref have been around a long time. They started reffing in a day when basketball was purely fundamentals. And pardon me, but pure fundamentals are being compromised. I have been to quite a few high school games this year and I have seen very few players that know fundamental post moves. This is not good or bad, it happens and we deal with it, but like players, refs will adjust too. It is just gonna take some time. I really don't want to come across as a jerk to anyone, but if you have never reffed a game at the varsity level or higher, then you don't know how hard it is. If your response to that is, "It can't be that hard" then I will look for your name to be on the list of registered officials for next year. I know for a fact there is a need for more in almost all areas of this state.

I completely empathize with you guys, it's a tough job and everyone expects you to be perfect all the time.  I've never seen a close game where someone didn't complain about the reffing, they are always the scapegoats it seems.  I hope there are enough positives associated with it too keep people interested in becoming refs in all sports, North Dakota needs them.

[project-pat]

Yeah, I think Bowman had 3 refs every game this year, and numerous occasions this year.

[Photo-man-Bob]

One thing I see so much that just makes me twitch is when a kid stops short and moves his pivot foot twice or thrice awkwardly while leaving his plant foot in place. (Whistle) travel.
Does it look awkward? Yes.
Is it a travel? No.
I know you guys have to see this a lot. Most of the time it is a knee-jerk reaction to make the call because the opposing teams bench/crowd gets all up in arms.
Also, heaven forbid a kid goes behind his back on the way to the hoop. No place in our game for that kind of nonsense, right? Travel!!!!

I never get very critical of refs (I used to be certified) but sometimes they've done so many games that they just make calls based on anticipation and habbit rather than the rule.

[baller01]

One thing I see so much that just makes me twitch is when a kid stops short and moves his pivot foot twice or thrice awkwardly while leaving his plant foot in place. (Whistle) travel.
Does it look awkward? Yes.
Is it a travel? No.
I know you guys have to see this a lot. Most of the time it is a knee-jerk reaction to make the call because the opposing teams bench/crowd gets all up in arms.
Also, heaven forbid a kid goes behind his back on the way to the hoop. No place in our game for that kind of nonsense, right? Travel!!!!

I never get very critical of refs (I used to be certified) but sometimes they've done so many games that they just make calls based on anticipation and habbit rather than the rule.

I agree with you on that 100%. I think a lot of officials call something just because it doesn't look normal.

[beavof77]

I think a big deal is alot of ND class B refs don't get the oppertunity to see the way the game is changing from the physical stand point. Like people said MN and MT refs let the game go and only call "real fouls" once these refs start watching good teams play they will start to see the things highschool kids can do that they always assume is a foul or a violation. How can this be changed?

[ndsportsfan98]

I think a big deal is alot of ND class B refs don't get the oppertunity to see the way the game is changing from the physical stand point. Like people said MN and MT refs let the game go and only call "real fouls" once these refs start watching good teams play they will start to see the things highschool kids can do that they always assume is a foul or a violation. How can this be changed?

I see some games where the refs do let a lot of contact go.  By watching these kinds of games it doesn't really seem like basketball, more like football.  I do agree, there are a lot of refs that need to realize that they have to let a little more contact go, but sometimes the whistles are completely swallowed from the opening tips, and the kids are beating the heck out of each other.  I have seen games on the other end of the spectrum, where everything is called, and eventually the players adapt to the officiating, and it actually looks like a fundamentally played basketball game.  The kids play defense with their feet, and don't reach and hack.