2022-2023 State Class B Boys Basketball Tournament

[bingobangobongo]

Very, very physical championship game. I think it hurts the flow of the game to allow so much contact on the ballhandler and post players. Makes for a less enjoyable game to watch.

[WalkingStick]

Question for Region 4 fans: How would FWM compete against each of the top 4 teams that played on championship nite?

They played the non-region teams (Beulah, Shiloh, and Thompson) during the season (all in February).

Beat Beulah by 19 & Thompson by 5
Lost to Shiloh by 8

I think they would have defensively solid … allowed 50+ points 4 times…never allowed 60

[ndlionsfan]

Question for Region 4 fans: How would FWM compete against each of the top 4 teams that played on championship nite?

FWM at full strength I believe still gets beat by Shiloh and Central Cass this past weekend. My guess is that they would have been seeded 2, possibly slid to 3, but would have faced Shiloh in the semis.

[maddog1971]

Who will all the the non CC & Bismarck fans be cheering for tonight? A class B school with an enrollment over 300 or the Region 5 private school that has been at the state tournament 11 of the last 13 years?

These 2 schools are the poster children for why there will be 3 classes.

Central Cass may be large but they haven’t been successful at state since 1968…rarely at State recently (9 times is deceiving since most happened well before the 2000s)

Shiloh has been there the most since 2000 and 10 of last 12 tournaments (including Covid year)

That is the reason that the 3rd class was needed. I don't think it has anything to do with CC but everything to do with Shiloh. The problem was not the Big B's.... it is the private schools and the new class A will have the same problem when St. Mary's decides that they want to win some state titles and they drop down to A. You can not complain about CC since they have been there one time in 23 years.

[ndlionsfan]

Who will all the the non CC & Bismarck fans be cheering for tonight? A class B school with an enrollment over 300 or the Region 5 private school that has been at the state tournament 11 of the last 13 years?

These 2 schools are the poster children for why there will be 3 classes.

Central Cass may be large but they haven’t been successful at state since 1968…rarely at State recently (9 times is deceiving since most happened well before the 2000s)

Shiloh has been there the most since 2000 and 10 of last 12 tournaments (including Covid year)

That is the reason that the 3rd class was needed. I don't think it has anything to do with CC but everything to do with Shiloh. The problem was not the Big B's.... it is the private schools and the new class A will have the same problem when St. Mary's decides that they want to win some state titles and they drop down to A. You can not complain about CC since they have been there one time in 23 years.

Yes, in some part. I think Shiloh's dominance in Region 5 shows a clear need for 3 class system. But also if you look at Region 1 and Region 2, how many small schools have actually had an opportunity for a state berth in the last decade? North Border had their best chance in a generation and couldn't make a championship game. Enderlin had a generational team and couldn't make it out of their region for 3 years.

[olufsen2022]

Who will all the the non CC & Bismarck fans be cheering for tonight? A class B school with an enrollment over 300 or the Region 5 private school that has been at the state tournament 11 of the last 13 years?

These 2 schools are the poster children for why there will be 3 classes.

Central Cass may be large but they haven’t been successful at state since 1968…rarely at State recently (9 times is deceiving since most happened well before the 2000s)

Shiloh has been there the most since 2000 and 10 of last 12 tournaments (including Covid year)

That is the reason that the 3rd class was needed. I don't think it has anything to do with CC but everything to do with Shiloh. The problem was not the Big B's.... it is the private schools and the new class A will have the same problem when St. Mary's decides that they want to win some state titles and they drop down to A. You can not complain about CC since they have been there one time in 23 years.

Yes, in some part. I think Shiloh's dominance in Region 5 shows a clear need for 3 class system. But also if you look at Region 1 and Region 2, how many small schools have actually had an opportunity for a state berth in the last decade? North Border had their best chance in a generation and couldn't make a championship game. Enderlin had a generational team and couldn't make it out of their region for 3 years.

North Border has been beating the "Big B's" in Region 2 for the last few years in the regular season. I believe they've lost less then 10 games combined over the last 3 years. They did make a region championship game 2 years ago and lost to the same team they dominated in the regular season. This year they lost in the first round to a team they'd also beaten handily in the regular season. What's happened? Have the teams they've lost to suddenly gained players for the region tourney? No, they haven't. As far as Enderlin goes, we all know they had plenty of talent to get out of Region 1 for a couple years in a row. It seemed like most of the issues they had were self inflicted and had nothing to do with being a smaller school. That being said, obviously the bigger schools have an advantage and will be consistently better. But lets not make excuses for some of these schools that probably should have been playing in a state tourney at some point. Those two teams were both good enough and they didn't get it done.

[ND Sports Fan]

Who will all the the non CC & Bismarck fans be cheering for tonight? A class B school with an enrollment over 300 or the Region 5 private school that has been at the state tournament 11 of the last 13 years?

These 2 schools are the poster children for why there will be 3 classes.

Central Cass may be large but they haven’t been successful at state since 1968…rarely at State recently (9 times is deceiving since most happened well before the 2000s)

Shiloh has been there the most since 2000 and 10 of last 12 tournaments (including Covid year)

That is the reason that the 3rd class was needed. I don't think it has anything to do with CC but everything to do with Shiloh. The problem was not the Big B's.... it is the private schools and the new class A will have the same problem when St. Mary's decides that they want to win some state titles and they drop down to A. You can not complain about CC since they have been there one time in 23 years.

Yes, in some part. I think Shiloh's dominance in Region 5 shows a clear need for 3 class system. But also if you look at Region 1 and Region 2, how many small schools have actually had an opportunity for a state berth in the last decade? North Border had their best chance in a generation and couldn't make a championship game. Enderlin had a generational team and couldn't make it out of their region for 3 years.

This is an easy question to answer and IMO speaks AGAINST at 3 class system. Region 1 is more diverse than Region 2.

Past 10 years - Region 1 (7 teams)
Milnor - 2014
Oak Grove - 2015
Northern Cass - 2016
Oak Grove - 2017
Wynmere Lidgerwood - 2018
Richland - 2019
Richland - 2020
Kindred - 2021
Kindred - 2022
Central Cass - 2023
*Note: Central Cass is the largest Class B school, yet Milnor, W/L, and Richland have all been
to the State B as many or more times in the past 10 years.

Region 2 ( 5 teams)
Cavalier - 2014
MayPort - CG - 2015
Grafton - 2016
HCV - 2017
HCV - 2018
Thompson - 2019
HCV - 2020
Grafton - 2021
Grafton - 2022
Thompson - 2023
*Less diversity in Region 2, yet still 5 teams. Most of which will transition up.

The argument that "small schools" cannot compete, is simply not true, especially in Region 1. The facts negate the passion. 7 different teams in 10 years, unless 10 different teams is the only acceptable goal.

[defensewinsgames]

I disagree with the North Border regular season take. Here is my view on it. NB is able to beat those top teams (Grafton, HCV, Thompson) when they have 3 days to rest and prepare and have to win one single game. When they get to a regional tournament where they go 3 games in 4 days and beat 3 of the top dogs in a row they can't get over the hump because the depth of those schools wins out. HCV has finished top 3 in the regional tournament the last two years without a shooter or if we are being honest a real ball-handling guard because their depth wins out over these other teams. They put a team of athletic football players (all posts over 6 foot) on the floor then play good defense and no small school can compete. Then they go play the top teams in the state and lose because they can't shoot from outside or score consistently. Cavalier just about beat them, Park River played them to less than 10 in the 1st half, Northern Cass was close. Be honest with yourself and tell me that HCV the last two years should be competing for region championships over NB or Mayville based on starting 5. The honest answer is no they absolutely should not but they do because 6 through 15 would all start on those teams. Regardless of what people try to tell you, numbers matter especially in a 3 day tournament.

This regional tournament is a great representation of why we need 3 classes. 3 teams that stay down made it and they took 8th, 7th, and 6th place. Powers Lake got murdered by Shiloh, Warwick competed with Central Cass until again depth won out then lost two in a row (likely because they were tired but foul trouble the 2nd night was huge for them because of no depth), and Medina only beat Warwick. We got a championship of the biggest class b school and the dominate private program. The small programs failed to compete for the most part. The change will be welcome and is needed.

[olufsen2022]

I disagree with the North Border regular season take. Here is my view on it. NB is able to beat those top teams (Grafton, HCV, Thompson) when they have 3 days to rest and prepare and have to win one single game. When they get to a regional tournament where they go 3 games in 4 days and beat 3 of the top dogs in a row they can't get over the hump because the depth of those schools wins out. HCV has finished top 3 in the regional tournament the last two years without a shooter or if we are being honest a real ball-handling guard because their depth wins out over these other teams. They put a team of athletic football players (all posts over 6 foot) on the floor then play good defense and no small school can compete. Then they go play the top teams in the state and lose because they can't shoot from outside or score consistently. Cavalier just about beat them, Park River played them to less than 10 in the 1st half, Northern Cass was close. Be honest with yourself and tell me that HCV the last two years should be competing for region championships over NB or Mayville based on starting 5. The honest answer is no they absolutely should not but they do because 6 through 15 would all start on those teams. Regardless of what people try to tell you, numbers matter especially in a 3 day tournament.

This regional tournament is a great representation of why we need 3 classes. 3 teams that stay down made it and they took 8th, 7th, and 6th place. Powers Lake got murdered by Shiloh, Warwick competed with Central Cass until again depth won out then lost two in a row (likely because they were tired but foul trouble the 2nd night was huge for them because of no depth), and Medina only beat Warwick. We got a championship of the biggest class b school and the dominate private program. The small programs failed to compete for the most part. The change will be welcome and is needed.

I agree with some of what you are saying but certainly not everything. I agree that HCV has been filled with strong, athletic kids the last couple years and not necessarily basketball players. This is where I'd give the nod to coaching as a success factor rather then just their depth. Coach Rotvold has obviously proven he can coach and get the best out of his kids whether he's coaching great basketball players or just great athletes. Yes, depth does play a part, but I believe coaching played a bigger part the last two years.
As far as the depth with North Border goes, they lost on the first day of the tourney this year to a team they previously beat quite handily. How can you say their lack of depth is what cost them when they had just had a week off and plenty of time to prepare? Do you know what kind of depth MPCG, Thompson, and Grafton have? Please explain if you do. As far as I have seen, most of them go 6-7 deep. The year North Border and Grafton played in the region championship, I'd say the depth was very comparable for both. Neither went more then 6 deep that I remember. Like I said, I'm not disagreeing with bigger schools normally having more depth and being able to compete at a higher level more consistently. Those are both factual. I don't agree that school size is the only thing that factors in and I think we do a disservice to the kids in the smaller schools by giving them a built in excuse and basically telling them they don't have a chance because of their school size. There are some talented players and teams that come from very small schools that are capable of competing at a high level. But can you imagine being told by everyone that you don't stand a chance just because you're playing against a bigger school or a private school? Those athletes begin to believe it and I think that's a huge problem. Kids can do some pretty amazing things with the right supports and people believing in them and getting them to believe in themselves.

[muley14]

Well said Olufsen. I was going to make a number of the same points.

This isn't a knock on Warwick but halfway though the first quarter of their Thursday game I thought they would be the 8th place team. It didn't have anything to do with their depth or size of school. A huge contracts to them for making it. They weren't even supposed to make the regional tournament but they took advantage of the situations around them and played their best when it mattered but usually teams can over achieve to that level for only so long. Saying they finished in 8th because they were a small school does them a disservice. If they would have won, it would have been an unbelievable story and be talked about forever. If we're honest I think we'll recognize they weren't the best team there. You don't have to win the trophy to be successful.

I'll admit that when WDAY played the story about the Warwick team leaving for state I got a little choked up. The pride and excitement in the community was awesome! The community and players will remember it forever because it is a big deal. That's what has made the B so special.

[Flying Wallenda]

I disagree with the North Border regular season take. Here is my view on it. NB is able to beat those top teams (Grafton, HCV, Thompson) when they have 3 days to rest and prepare and have to win one single game. When they get to a regional tournament where they go 3 games in 4 days and beat 3 of the top dogs in a row they can't get over the hump because the depth of those schools wins out. HCV has finished top 3 in the regional tournament the last two years without a shooter or if we are being honest a real ball-handling guard because their depth wins out over these other teams. They put a team of athletic football players (all posts over 6 foot) on the floor then play good defense and no small school can compete. Then they go play the top teams in the state and lose because they can't shoot from outside or score consistently. Cavalier just about beat them, Park River played them to less than 10 in the 1st half, Northern Cass was close. Be honest with yourself and tell me that HCV the last two years should be competing for region championships over NB or Mayville based on starting 5. The honest answer is no they absolutely should not but they do because 6 through 15 would all start on those teams. Regardless of what people try to tell you, numbers matter especially in a 3 day tournament.

This regional tournament is a great representation of why we need 3 classes. 3 teams that stay down made it and they took 8th, 7th, and 6th place. Powers Lake got murdered by Shiloh, Warwick competed with Central Cass until again depth won out then lost two in a row (likely because they were tired but foul trouble the 2nd night was huge for them because of no depth), and Medina only beat Warwick. We got a championship of the biggest class b school and the dominate private program. The small programs failed to compete for the most part. The change will be welcome and is needed.

I'd take HCV's starting 5 over MPCGFS this year every day of the week, I'd guess that's why they went 3-0 against them. Coin flip with NB.........I'd also argue that Limke last year and Brandt this year were 2 of the best basketball players in the region, not the best FB players. As for losing to top teams in the state, I'd say beating Kindred/Grafton twice/MPCG 3 times/Thompson 1/Ada once - they did ok.

[Thundersnow]

I was able to be in attendance at this year's state tournament, and thought it was good. Here are my main takeaways:

Central Cass and Shiloh were the two best teams, and Central Cass deserved to win the way they played on Saturday night. Amazing accomplishment for them to finish undefeated and to win the boys and girls State Titles in the same season.

We have a lot of good talent and coaching in this state. Even the teams who finished 6-8 had some impressive individuals. Fassett from Warwick, Moser from Medina and Enget from Powers Lake were worth the price of admission alone.

The top 5 programs will fit in perfectly in the new middle class.

The attendance was good, especially considering the weather on Friday.

Because I was there in person, I didn't watch a second of it on TV. How was WDAY's coverage?

[ndlionsfan]

Because I was there in person, I didn't watch a second of it on TV. How was WDAY's coverage?

I watched it all on TV and thought the coverage was so so. Better than some other years, but could have been improved. It would be nice if announcers and reporters could at least pronounce the towns or names of people correctly. And like most years they get stuck on a story line of one team and don't give any other teams any publicity. But that's how it goes.

Curious to what it might look like for TV coverage next year. Does WDAY control it all still? How will they televise two tournaments in separate cities? Do they open up one of the other tournaments for a KVLY and BEK to bid on?

[Flying Wallenda]

I disagree with the North Border regular season take. Here is my view on it. NB is able to beat those top teams (Grafton, HCV, Thompson) when they have 3 days to rest and prepare and have to win one single game. When they get to a regional tournament where they go 3 games in 4 days and beat 3 of the top dogs in a row they can't get over the hump because the depth of those schools wins out. HCV has finished top 3 in the regional tournament the last two years without a shooter or if we are being honest a real ball-handling guard because their depth wins out over these other teams. They put a team of athletic football players (all posts over 6 foot) on the floor then play good defense and no small school can compete. Then they go play the top teams in the state and lose because they can't shoot from outside or score consistently. Cavalier just about beat them, Park River played them to less than 10 in the 1st half, Northern Cass was close. Be honest with yourself and tell me that HCV the last two years should be competing for region championships over NB or Mayville based on starting 5. The honest answer is no they absolutely should not but they do because 6 through 15 would all start on those teams. Regardless of what people try to tell you, numbers matter especially in a 3 day tournament.

This regional tournament is a great representation of why we need 3 classes. 3 teams that stay down made it and they took 8th, 7th, and 6th place. Powers Lake got murdered by Shiloh, Warwick competed with Central Cass until again depth won out then lost two in a row (likely because they were tired but foul trouble the 2nd night was huge for them because of no depth), and Medina only beat Warwick. We got a championship of the biggest class b school and the dominate private program. The small programs failed to compete for the most part. The change will be welcome and is needed.

I'd take HCV's starting 5 over MPCGFS this year every day of the week, I'd guess that's why they went 3-0 against them. Coin flip with NB.........I'd also argue that Limke last year and Brandt this year were 2 of the best basketball players in the region, not the best FB players. As for losing to top teams in the state, I'd say beating Kindred/Grafton twice/MPCG 3 times/Thompson 1/Ada once - they did ok.

2-0, they played twice (both games pretty competitive)

3-0. Played for 3rd in the region. All game’s competitive.

[leroybla]

I was able to be in attendance at this year's state tournament, and thought it was good. Here are my main takeaways:

Central Cass and Shiloh were the two best teams, and Central Cass deserved to win the way they played on Saturday night. Amazing accomplishment for them to finish undefeated and to win the boys and girls State Titles in the same season.

We have a lot of good talent and coaching in this state. Even the teams who finished 6-8 had some impressive individuals. Fassett from Warwick, Moser from Medina and Enget from Powers Lake were worth the price of admission alone.

The top 5 programs will fit in perfectly in the new middle class.

The attendance was good, especially considering the weather on Friday.

Because I was there in person, I didn't watch a second of it on TV. How was WDAY's coverage?

I would have liked more information on fouls. Who fouled and how many they had during the course of the game.

[WalkingStick]

I wish there was a live stats page like SD had…would be so much better for those of us who work during the day and cannot stream the games

[Thundersnow]

Because I was there in person, I didn't watch a second of it on TV. How was WDAY's coverage?

I watched it all on TV and thought the coverage was so so. Better than some other years, but could have been improved. It would be nice if announcers and reporters could at least pronounce the towns or names of people correctly. And like most years they get stuck on a story line of one team and don't give any other teams any publicity. But that's how it goes.

Curious to what it might look like for TV coverage next year. Does WDAY control it all still? How will they televise two tournaments in separate cities? Do they open up one of the other tournaments for a KVLY and BEK to bid on?

I believe WDAY gets one more year due to COVID. Between their main channel, subchannels, and stream, they will figure it out. My prediction is BEK gets the next contract, and they will do well.

"Main channel, subchannels, and stream" many of us can't even get their subchannels or stream without a subscription. NBC, KX, and BEK on TV, PSP Network, Your Live Event, and Magnitude Sports on YouTube could all provide easily accessible coverage without requiring a special subscription. The NDHSAA really needs to revisit their idea of "exclusive rights" for statewide postseason events. If they're married to the idea that only one outlet should be allowed to do a tournament (which seems quite archaic to me), I like the idea of having one of these outlets doing one or two of the now 6 state tournaments.

[WalkingStick]

BEK Sports does VB, which WDAY wants nothing to be a part of, they should be given something. If Girls B is in Jamestown like they suggest…BEK should take that one.