3 Class System for Basketball

[Flip]

I think you have to go back 19 years to find a region 1 championship that didn't have CC or Kindred.

[WalkingStick]

I think you have to go back 19 years to find a region 1 championship that didn't have CC or Kindred.

2005: Northern Cass def. Enderlin 40-25...interestingly enough the last time that Northern Cass was in the Title game

[Sorenson23]

Not to mention this is the 4th year in a row LEM beat FWM in the region championship. How many times in a row have Kindred and CC played in their region championship? When was the last time Shiloh wasn't in the championship game in their region?

They ain’t playing this year either

Prior to last year when it was Wilton-Wing vs Center-Stanton, it was 2011 opening round when Washburn defeated Shiloh 69-28, en route to defeating Grant County for the region title. My complaint is if you have to recruit to keep your program in the region championship game year after year that shows you have no confidence in the kids you have. These other schools put in the hard work year after year, and it ends with them losing to a recruited team year after year. I've talked to people in Bismarck that don't go to that school, and said they do recruit players. You recruit players at the college ranks or the pros, and you make the National Title or Super Bowl year after year then you yes are a dyansty. But you aren't a dynasty if you have to recruit players at the high school level to make your program better. Remember their wouldn't be a Bismarck, Minot, Fargo, etc. if it wasn't for the small towns. Why are we destroying these small towns? I am a small town supporter, and always will be. I have good sportsmanship towards the teams that put in the hard work that don't recruit. But, how can I have good sportsmanship, for a team that recruits, and the outcome is always the same. All in all, I stand by my comment if my account gets deleted then it does.

[Sportsrube]

Not to mention this is the 4th year in a row LEM beat FWM in the region championship. How many times in a row have Kindred and CC played in their region championship? When was the last time Shiloh wasn't in the championship game in their region?

Central Cass beat Kindred last two seasons; otherwise they hadn't met in title since 2012.

Shiloh wasn't in Girls Title last year (Wilton-Wing over Center-Stanton); before that 2011 when they lost in QF.

Shiloh Boys missed title game in 2017.

And then WIlton's best player suddenly transferred to Shiloh, what a coincidence! (A coincidence that has happened way too many times for it to actually be a coincidence.)

[maddog1971]

If all privates are not at least in the middle class.... I hope we never see a 3rd class. The only reason to do this is to get privates out of B.
I would have less problem with ND going to a single class where everyone plays each other.

[Sportsrube]

If all privates are not at least in the middle class.... I hope we never see a 3rd class. The only reason to do this is to get privates out of B.
I would have less problem with ND going to a single class where everyone plays each other.

I agree. Any school without a defined District boundary needs to be in the middle division or higher.

[The Schwab]

If you have a plan that mandates certain schools move up to a higher class without any other reason besides they are a private school, you set yourself up for lawsuits.

Having a multiplier based on free and reduced lunch percentage is the best opportunity to get the schools that should be in the middle class, to that class.

Williston Trinity Christian is not the problem

[classB4ever]

If you have a plan that mandates certain schools move up to a higher class without any other reason besides they are a private school, you set yourself up for lawsuits.

There are many states that have done this and won the lawsuits when brought. With that said,,,,,,,,,,

Having a multiplier based on free and reduced lunch percentage is the best opportunity to get the schools that should be in the middle class, to that class.

You're latest proposal solves all that and there really can't be an argument against it since they have been using FRLP for quite some time. IMHO, it draws division lines based on solid grounds. Kind of the missing piece of the puzzle (formula which backs up conversation) we have discussed for years. 2 cents.

[WalkingStick]

Schwab - your plan is so much closer to being the right plan then Sheyenne's plan. Sheyenne's plan is self-serving for the A schools and that's what is driving his plan...he has ZERO Class B knowledge (he's kind of like the media...lol!).

Some tweaks needed and maybe utilizing Sheyenne's tournament structure. Rumor has it the state is looking at 3-classes closely, but it won't happen in the next 2 years; but a plan like this is likely to be closer to the answer.

Side Note: ND isn't other states...ND won't do something that will be an opportunity for lawsuits.

[classB4ever]

Side Note: ND isn't other states...ND won't do something that will be an opportunity for lawsuits.

Shazam!!!

[Big Blue]

I live in a state with six classes. Traditionally, around 2 or 3 teams in every single class is a private school. More classes doesn't necessarily mean ridding lower classes of private schools.

[classB4ever]

I live in a state with six classes. Traditionally, around 2 or 3 teams in every single class is a private school. More classes doesn't necessarily mean ridding lower classes of private schools.

Agreed. May I ask how the private/parochial schools do in your state in each of the classes? Meaning are they yearly contenders, average, below average. In the proposed plan on this thread, it doesn't move all private/parochial schools up.

[WalkingStick]

Trinity Christian has less than 100 kids in their whole HS...they don't belong up. ORCS is borderline...all the others should be middle class or Upper (Shanley/BSM). Schwab's plan is exactly this and doesn't say 'Opt Up' like Sheyenne's plan. Schwab has a legitimate reasoning to have them in the division they are in...Sheyenne's does not.

Sheyenne's plan is a Class A coach that wants more non-conference games and doesn't want to play Wahp, DL or VC anymore...it is not to better Class B basketball...it's self-serving (packers21 has stated this before) for the Large Schools to get their way.

[hoophoophoop]

They need to do some very shortly, girls are dropping left and right out of basketball, I know for sure Hankinson will not have a team next year, look at the 3rd place game in Region 1, CC beats Richland by 60, kept there starters in til the end, (and was pressing by the way) I hope there is a payback someday, but probably not!!!!

[vikingman]

I don't see how you can say CC was pressing to the end -- they weren't pressing at all in the second half, even in the 2nd quarter there was nothing more than an occasional, half-hearted, man-to-man press. (and I just went back to check the webcast to be sure). Starters were rotating in and out during the second half -- probably wanted to reward a good senior class with a more positive feeling than what they had on Friday night. What a difference it makes when you shoot 50% on 3s as compared to 20%.

[Thundersnow]

Do the people who want to keep a 2-class system enjoy the fact that there are new co-ops every year? At the rate we're going, we're going to be down to about 80 Class B teams by 2030.
Do they like seeing Turtle Mountain, Valley City, and Wahpeton never making it to a State A Tournament?
Is it that interesting to see some combo of Grafton, Shiloh, Four Winds or Langdon, Dickinson Trinity or Beulah in every single State B Tournament?
Would Central Cass vs. Kindred suddenly not be a good rivalry because it occurs in a middle class instead of the smallest class?
I've lived in North Dakota my whole life, and I don't like change just for the sake of change. But the 2-class system is broken. It is in the process of ruining high school basketball in the state. A 3-class system wouldn't be perfect or solve every problem, but it would be 500% better.

[maddog1971]

The problem is the PRIVATE Schools. The only way to solve this problem is to create a 3rd class. Privates need to play someone because there is not enough private schools in this state to play each other. SO the big B's and little A's creating a new class is the answer. Shiloh bringing in new kids every year and going to state in both Boys and girls has ruined it for everyone else.
I don't see the problem because the really good teams this year and most are big b's and privates.... So it will give small town's a chance to play and compete. Small towns can not compete with Big B's and privates. They don't build the programs and competition at small town B's.

[packers21]

Do the people who want to keep a 2-class system enjoy the fact that there are new co-ops every year? At the rate we're going, we're going to be down to about 80 Class B teams by 2030.
Do they like seeing Turtle Mountain, Valley City, and Wahpeton never making it to a State A Tournament?
Is it that interesting to see some combo of Grafton, Shiloh, Four Winds or Langdon, Dickinson Trinity or Beulah in every single State B Tournament?
Would Central Cass vs. Kindred suddenly not be a good rivalry because it occurs in a middle class instead of the smallest class?
I've lived in North Dakota my whole life, and I don't like change just for the sake of change. But the 2-class system is broken. It is in the process of ruining high school basketball in the state. A 3-class system wouldn't be perfect or solve every problem, but it would be 500% better.

Wahpeton has made state recently in bigs and girls. I think most ppl are in favor of change just not the Sheyenne plan.

[WalkingStick]

The problem is the PRIVATE Schools. The only way to solve this problem is to create a 3rd class. Privates need to play someone because there is not enough private schools in this state to play each other. SO the big B's and little A's creating a new class is the answer. Shiloh bringing in new kids every year and going to state in both Boys and girls has ruined it for everyone else.
I don't see the problem because the really good teams this year and most are big b's and privates.... So it will give small town's a chance to play and compete. Small towns can not compete with Big B's and privates. They don't build the programs and competition at small town B's.

Not all Private schools are the problem...Trinity Christian is NOT the problem. Their 37 students are NOT the problem. Their girls have to coop with Alexander just to be able to play basketball. Dakota Adventist Academy is NOT the problem...the new Capstone Classical in Fargo will NOT be the problem in 5 years. These private schools belong in Class B because their enrollment numbers are low...really low.

Yes, all others could probably be up but it's hard to say Our Redeemer's with 55 students will get moved up with any legitimate plan (which is why Schwab's plan has them down).

Shanley & BSM in Class AA...Legit; Oak Grove, Dickinson Trinity, Shiloh Christian, Bishop Ryan in Class A...Legit.

I'd rather we get a plan voted on by someone who knows Class B and it's dynamics...not by someone who just wants things better for the LARGEST schools in the State. 3 class creation is for the B Schools...NOT the A schools.

[maddog1971]

Make it all privates and get rid of the transfer rule. No sitting out if you transfer schools.

[Flip]

Make it all privates and get rid of the transfer rule. No sitting out if you transfer schools.

What is the transfer rule?

[The Schwab]

There are problems with the system. The competitive balance is gone from the current system. Most private schools and big class B schools cause most of the problems with the lack of competitive balance. Those schools generally do not go through the peaks and valleys of your traditional small class b schools. As much as some on this board don't want to admit, basketball isn't about the x's and the o's it's about the billy's and the joe's.

[WalkingStick]

Make it all privates and get rid of the transfer rule. No sitting out if you transfer schools.

So, you want it to open the door for kids to transfer to public schools in the lower class and be able to play right away. That will become a problem and you (and others) will be complaining about it 2 years in.

Also great...Good Luck Dakota Adventist against the likes of Turtle Mountain...35 kids vs. 500 kids...that's fair? You are delusional if you think that's right...even if you hate the private schools.

[Flip]

Make it all privates and get rid of the transfer rule. No sitting out if you transfer schools.

There is a private school in Niche. They have 14 students K-12. If they create a coop with North Border should they be in the middle class?

[chief45]

Make it all privates and get rid of the transfer rule. No sitting out if you transfer schools.

There is a private school in Niche. They have 14 students K-12. If they create a coop with North Border should they be in the middle class?

According to Maddog1971 yes.