The Dreaded Three Pointer

[winner-within]

Talking with an 81 year old Grandma, that loves watching these Games, that are now being more frequently Streamed.....and she bought up the 3 point shot, she said they are doing way to much of it!

for the last few years I have had this feeling myself
if they Did away with the 3 pointer from the NBA down starting today, I personally believe Basketball would become more fun to watch and here is why...

lets say a real good Shooter in Class B can shoot 40% from behind the Arc, I would be willing to bet the same player could only shoot 30% on a 12-15 ft Jumper and only shoots about 60% from the free-throw line
why? because they spend an outrageous amount of their time practicing 3's

they say if you have an hour to practice Golf
10 mins Driver, 10 mins mid irons, and 40 mins putting
same should go for Basketball...practice the the High percentage game winning score multiplying shots!

how many times, have you seen, a team that needs only 2 to win the game, with less than 5 seconds left in the game come out of a time out, or come down the floor and fire up a 3? many many many...

I think of the Hillsboro FW's game a few years back (state final) when FW's is in the lead and one of the most prolific shooters (Fox) fires up a 3, with seconds left, to ice it and it doesn't fall...
down the court come the Boros and they knock down (ironically a 3) to win...
that happens way less than "it doesn't happen"

kick the ball back from in the lane to fire up a 3
dribble down the floor, the zone sags, fire up a 3 before one pass
one pass to the wing, fire up a 3

a 3 is the hardest shot to rebound, defensively and or offensively
and 1 out of 20 the shooter gets his own rebound off of shooting a 3

I was done with Ball the year before the 3 and it literally took at least 5 years after that before it was incorporated into the game...
even the (now 4th) leading scorer of all time, didn't shoot many threes, even though 4 years of his Career there was a 3 point line.....
the now 3rd leading scorer goes to the hole or shoots a nice jumper more than he sits out and strokes....
the rest of the top ten scorers were not 3 point specialists and many of the top ten didn't have the 3 available, including the far out front runner S.B.

its ruining a good Basketball game IMO
and talking about a Dunk or a Nice Post Move, or give and Go/Screen and Roll, the 3 is way less exciting
unless of course its to win the Game.......

Kurt Keplin, Perry WhiteOwl, many shooters throughout the State shot the long ball way before the 3
they called it "top of the key" or "corner shot" they took it when it was given but it still was a 2 pointer and you still had to play your Butt off to win the game, with more strategy and more hustle....
I think thats what the lady in her 80's was getting at.....just my 2 cent

[maddog1971]

The 3 pointer is the great equalizer. It allows for the game to be higher scoring and faster pace. Teams that have 6'10 players can get beat by a 5'11 shooting guard. Also the game is quite a bit more physical then it was back with no 3 pointers. Kids push and bang away on post players and that was not ok back then. Kids would drive and get bumped they would go to the line. Now... that is a play on most of the time.

[winner-within]

The 3 pointer is the great equalizer. It allows for the game to be higher scoring and faster pace. Teams that have 6'10 players can get beat by a 5'11 shooting guard. Also the game is quite a bit more physical then it was back with no 3 pointers. Kids push and bang away on post players and that was not ok back then. Kids would drive and get bumped they would go to the line. Now... that is a play on most of the time.

I definitely disagree with each point.....

a Higher scoring game? the best ones I've ever watched with or without a 3 are 52 to 50, even in College
that means someone is playing D
and there is no such thing as faster pace because of a 3 point arc, I beg to differ and say it has slowed the game...

if you are saying the 3 has brought a more physical game or lets say you mean because of the 3 the game has gotten or needs to be more physical...I disagree

Equalizer? is that like a Double Barrel vs a single shot?....you still have to hit the target

why is this board so full of 6'10" talk..(is there actually more than 1 in the State? if I'm 6'10" there isn't anyone shorter than me getting to many 3 shots or 2 shots over me....

and don't kid yourself a foul is still a foul if called correctly

[Run4Fun2009]

Yes there is more than 1 6'10" kid in the state...both in Region 1...oh and also 6'9" & 6'8 also in Region 1; not sure what's outside of R1 in this regard but yes...more than just 1.

you can still play D and have the 3 in play; there are teams out there that are successful at good inside & outside play.

It's an interesting argument but being from a school that likes the outside shot and does it well (most of the time); it does open up for better inside play as well if used correctly.

Faster Play is attributed to the shot clock more than the 3 point shot.

[The Schwab]

If you get rid of the "3" games would be a lot lower scoring. You would see so many teams pack in a zone and not extend out to many shooters.

[winner-within]

If you get rid of the "3" games would be a lot lower scoring. You would see so many teams pack in a zone and not extend out to many shooters.

I stated that there has always been long ball shooters that you had to guard but they'd still burn you because there are Pure shooters and there are the ones that practice them a lot
a pure shooter will up his 3 or longer 2 average much faster with practicing than an average shooter who wants to become a 3 or long 2 threat....
we scored 106 in a game and many in the 70's (run the floor) ...way less transition these days also partially because of the 3 I believe....more Zone? then shoot it! still counts on the score board....its only in a pick up game that you are racing to 15...in a real game its who is ahead at the Buzzer.....

[Sportsrube]

Talking with an 81 year old Grandma, that loves watching these Games, that are now being more frequently Streamed.....and she bought up the 3 point shot, she said they are doing way to much of it!

for the last few years I have had this feeling myself
if they Did away with the 3 pointer from the NBA down starting today, I personally believe Basketball would become more fun to watch and here is why...

lets say a real good Shooter in Class B can shoot 40% from behind the Arc, I would be willing to bet the same player could only shoot 30% on a 12-15 ft Jumper and only shoots about 60% from the free-throw line
why? because they spend an outrageous amount of their time practicing 3's

they say if you have an hour to practice Golf
10 mins Driver, 10 mins mid irons, and 40 mins putting
same should go for Basketball...practice the the High percentage game winning score multiplying shots!

how many times, have you seen, a team that needs only 2 to win the game, with less than 5 seconds left in the game come out of a time out, or come down the floor and fire up a 3? many many many...

I think of the Hillsboro FW's game a few years back (state final) when FW's is in the lead and one of the most prolific shooters (Fox) fires up a 3, with seconds left, to ice it and it doesn't fall...
down the court come the Boros and they knock down (ironically a 3) to win...
that happens way less than "it doesn't happen"

kick the ball back from in the lane to fire up a 3
dribble down the floor, the zone sags, fire up a 3 before one pass
one pass to the wing, fire up a 3

a 3 is the hardest shot to rebound, defensively and or offensively
and 1 out of 20 the shooter gets his own rebound off of shooting a 3

I was done with Ball the year before the 3 and it literally took at least 5 years after that before it was incorporated into the game...
even the (now 4th) leading scorer of all time, didn't shoot many threes, even though 4 years of his Career there was a 3 point line.....
the now 3rd leading scorer goes to the hole or shoots a nice jumper more than he sits out and strokes....
the rest of the top ten scorers were not 3 point specialists and many of the top ten didn't have the 3 available, including the far out front runner S.B.

its ruining a good Basketball game IMO
and talking about a Dunk or a Nice Post Move, or give and Go/Screen and Roll, the 3 is way less exciting
unless of course its to win the Game.......

Kurt Keplin, Perry WhiteOwl, many shooters throughout the State shot the long ball way before the 3
they called it "top of the key" or "corner shot" they took it when it was given but it still was a 2 pointer and you still had to play your Butt off to win the game, with more strategy and more hustle....
I think thats what the lady in her 80's was getting at.....just my 2 cent

A number of good points in this post and I agree with most of them. As a side bar - I played against Kurt Keplin from JH thru HS - dude was within range pretty much when he crossed half court! I have often wondered how many points he would have scored if the 3 pt line existed back then.

[winner-within]

Yes there is more than 1 6'10" kid in the state...both in Region 1...oh and also 6'9" & 6'8 also in Region 1; not sure what's outside of R1 in this regard but yes...more than just 1.

you can still play D and have the 3 in play; there are teams out there that are successful at good inside & outside play.

It's an interesting argument but being from a school that likes the outside shot and does it well (most of the time); it does open up for better inside play as well if used correctly.

Faster Play is attributed to the shot clock more than the 3 point shot.

what do you guys eat down there? ... but thats still only 2 Six Ten

I never did state that the 3 caused "less D" I said a good game with a lower score is usually the result of strong D...if its a game (low scoring) where both teams shoot 25% and no one played D? well than that can be a New thread....

and yes, I agree the shot clock helps some and way more than a 3 which I believe has nothing to do with the speed of the game
but with the shot clock most shots are put up with more than 10 secs left on it and many are 3's
in the days of outlet fast break (for some reason way less these days) there were very few possessions more than even 25 secs .....until the technicians (coaches) came up with the Stall Offense
which the clock now prevents

[maddog1971]

By most of the guys I see on this thread, most of us are old guys. I think way to many 3 pointers are takin. I will agree with you. I love nothing better than a good post game. But the fact that keep teams like Oak Grove in the game is the 3 ball.
Also back in the 80's or early 90's things were called quite a bit tighter. How many times a game was over the back called.... (I know not a real call) Now if you can jump and you go straight up and grab the ball or even reach over the top and not touch anybody... no fouls called. If someone put both hands in my back in the post... I was going to the line, If I jumped into someone and they jumped as well... I was going to the line. Now.. Play on..
I like the 3 ball.... and the shot clock... I say bring it down to 25 seconds....

[winner-within]

By most of the guys I see on this thread, most of us are old guys. I think way to many 3 pointers are takin. I will agree with you. I love nothing better than a good post game. But the fact that keep teams like Oak Grove in the game is the 3 ball.
Also back in the 80's or early 90's things were called quite a bit tighter. How many times a game was over the back called.... (I know not a real call) Now if you can jump and you go straight up and grab the ball or even reach over the top and not touch anybody... no fouls called. If someone put both hands in my back in the post... I was going to the line, If I jumped into someone and they jumped as well... I was going to the line. Now.. Play on..
I like the 3 ball.... and the shot clock... I say bring it down to 25 seconds....

Golden State too!

I went to the extreme with my Post only because I know it will never happen....but lets say they did it, I don't think there would be every Coach and player out there heartbroken (side note: I think some players even alot of players today still play the game without the thought and the need to stroke threes all game and may even resent it) and now how the game has evolved with other things, I think even the ones that are heartbroken initially would adapt fast, due the fact it was once like that...but with that said there would be a bunch of "long ball shooters" in comparison to the long ball "pure" shooters of yesteryear but the shot still is only 2 points....

Interesting topic and thanks for the input, I may not have ever started this thread (even though it was in the back of my mind lately and even though I know a few that have had 9 and 10 of them in a game) but it was because of an older observer (a gal) that sparked my non-typing fingers to type...

[Run4Fun2009]

The Shot clock will not change to anything lower than 30 for HS...guaranteed (Class A is 30 right now; Class B is 35)

Heard the shot clock horn 4 times last night in a boys game...3 were two-point shots and 1 was a violation attributed to good D and poor awareness

[The Schwab]

If we're making rule changes:

1. Get rid of the no charge circle
2. Go to "freedom of movement"
3. 30 second shot clock
4. No 10 second back court
5. No 5 second closely guarded.

[winner-within]

If we're making rule changes:

1. Get rid of the no charge circle
2. Go to "freedom of movement"
3. 30 second shot clock
4. No 10 second back court
5. No 5 second closely guarded.

agree with all...
the 10 sec back court would take away from a good Press...but yet I think there would be some fouling issues if it was implemented...

[B Historian]

The volume of 3-point shots per game in the NBA has doubled in the last decade and that trend has trickled all the way down to the HS level.

The problem in ND Class B is that many teams don't have enough skilled shooters to execute the strategy of making the 3-point shot half of the offensive production. According to the numbers I have, this is the lowest scoring season in Class B since at least the 2004 season. Aesthetically many games are now painful to watch. Small school basketball used to be a great product but I feel the style of play is heading in the wrong direction.

[Baller]

If we're making rule changes:

1. Get rid of the no charge circle
2. Go to "freedom of movement"
3. 30 second shot clock
4. No 10 second back court
5. No 5 second closely guarded.

I really like the college rule of resetting the shot clock to 20 on an offensive rebound or foul in the front court too.

[The Schwab]

If we're making rule changes:

1. Get rid of the no charge circle
2. Go to "freedom of movement"
3. 30 second shot clock
4. No 10 second back court
5. No 5 second closely guarded.

I really like the college rule of resetting the shot clock to 20 on an offensive rebound or foul in the front court too.

I like that one too!

[sportsnut5]

The problem in ND Class B is that many teams don't have enough skilled shooters to execute the strategy of making the 3-point shot half of the offensive production. According to the numbers I have, this is the lowest scoring season in Class B since at least the 2004 season. Aesthetically many games are now painful to watch. Small school basketball used to be a great product but I feel the style of play is heading in the wrong direction.

The drop scoring can certainly be attributed to poor shot selection, but I personally feel it is a direct correlation between talent levels. How many 40 and 50 point blowouts are we going to continue to have until something is done with leveling the playing field. When there are Class A games with 80 point spreads, we know there is a problem. The competitive balance has made it to where strong teams can shoot the 3 point shot at a high percentage and struggling teams can only manage to get low percentage 3 point shots because they are overwhelmed by talented teams. The 3 point shot has widened the gap because great teams can generate good 3 point shot attempts and convert at a high rate, while poor teams cannot generate good shots and end up shooting a very low 3-point percentage.

[winner-within]

The volume of 3-point shots per game in the NBA has doubled in the last decade and that trend has trickled all the way down to the HS level.

The problem in ND Class B is that many teams don't have enough skilled shooters to execute the strategy of making the 3-point shot half of the offensive production. According to the numbers I have, this is the lowest scoring season in Class B since at least the 2004 season. Aesthetically many games are now painful to watch. Small school basketball used to be a great product but I feel the style of play is heading in the wrong direction.

Yep even LeBron wants to shoot'm now...remember when MJ had 6....was the biggest deal ever
why? because he rarely shot them and is up there pretty good in the all time scoring category if I remember right
never had a game like that again either, because it wasn't his game....

to the Youngens out there...attack the hoop, run the floor, follow your 10-12 foot shot
I'll touch on that "follow your shot" being yelled out constantly from the stands....
first off, there are only certain shots you look to follow...if you are past 12-13 ft out (IMO) you get back if it doesn't fall and prepare to guard...and only a heads'y (instinctive mind) player reacts to following because he also knows when he/she let go it may be off...

nothing in the history or the rules of Basketball has taken over a finely invented game like the 3-Pointer

[Run4Fun2009]

I love the 'follow your shot' yell to the boy/girl who shot it from the top of the key and then the yelling about who was supposed to be back to slow up the fast break that has now become 2-on-0; I even hear coaches yelling that lately...then berating the athlete for following their shot

[maddog1971]

I think the fact that drive and get to the basket and post players get beat up quite a bit with no fouls called. Trust me I like the physical play and as long as they call it both ways... I am fine with that. But i think that is why you see good post players popping out and shooting the 3. They just want to get a shot off with getting pushed or hit. I love the the circle thing for charges. I also like the fact they let kids jump straight up and no foul.

[Run4Fun2009]

I think the fact that drive and get to the basket and post players get beat up quite a bit with no fouls called. Trust me I like the physical play and as long as they call it both ways... I am fine with that. But i think that is why you see good post players popping out and shooting the 3. They just want to get a shot off with getting pushed or hit. I love the the circle thing for charges. I also like the fact they let kids jump straight up and no foul.

Semi-circle is fine if every official knew the rules to it; charges can still be taken inside the semi-circle ONLY IF you are the primary defender OR along the baseline by any defender...it's baffling to hear some of the arguments by officials on this one.

Semi-circle is to stop the secondary defenders from planting too close to the hoop, in many cases eliminating some dangerous undercutting plays.

Also like to leave this here as well: https://www.quickscores.com/downloads/j ... etball.pdf

[Sportsrube]

I think the fact that drive and get to the basket and post players get beat up quite a bit with no fouls called. Trust me I like the physical play and as long as they call it both ways... I am fine with that. But i think that is why you see good post players popping out and shooting the 3. They just want to get a shot off with getting pushed or hit. I love the the circle thing for charges. I also like the fact they let kids jump straight up and no foul.

Semi-circle is fine if every official knew the rules to it; charges can still be taken inside the semi-circle ONLY IF you are the primary defender OR along the baseline by any defender...it's baffling to hear some of the arguments by officials on this one.

Semi-circle is to stop the secondary defenders from planting too close to the hoop, in many cases eliminating some dangerous undercutting plays.

Also like to leave this here as well: https://www.quickscores.com/downloads/j ... etball.pdf

I think that link should be printed out and handed to every spectator as they walk in the door!

[RedDirtFan]

I don't mind how the game has evolved in regard to 3 point shooting--it's fun to watch when good teams are on the floor--but one thing that has remained the same is this:

The teams that win consistently have more kids who rarely miss layups or rarely miss within 5 feet of the basket. Those teams tend to make more threes too, because momentum and confidence are intertwined. More made bunnies will likely translate to more made threes.

The losing team--at all levels--now points to the poor 3 point percentage first. That logic is faulty--count the point blank misses first.

[The Schwab]

I think the fact that drive and get to the basket and post players get beat up quite a bit with no fouls called. Trust me I like the physical play and as long as they call it both ways... I am fine with that. But i think that is why you see good post players popping out and shooting the 3. They just want to get a shot off with getting pushed or hit. I love the the circle thing for charges. I also like the fact they let kids jump straight up and no foul.

Semi-circle is fine if every official knew the rules to it; charges can still be taken inside the semi-circle ONLY IF you are the primary defender OR along the baseline by any defender...it's baffling to hear some of the arguments by officials on this one.

Semi-circle is to stop the secondary defenders from planting too close to the hoop, in many cases eliminating some dangerous undercutting plays.

Also like to leave this here as well: https://www.quickscores.com/downloads/j ... etball.pdf

In my opinion, the no-charge circle is incorrectly called more often than anything and that's why I would like to see it removed.

[RedDirtFan]

They can't go back to freedom of movement in class B. There'd be so many foul-outs and so many complaints. It's not worth it for officials to not "let them play."

As physical as the game is allowed to be now, fouling out should be a thing of the past unless we're talking 5 egregious fouls.