2020-21 Pre-Season Talk

[maddog1971]

I am a region 1 guy...

Enderlin is the Favorite. We all know about the Twins and the size and skill level. They don't just have those two players but at least 2 others that are extremely talented players as well.
CC brings lots back and they can win on any given night.
Kindred is Big and the most athletic team in the region. They don't have a ton of experience back but they can guard, run and rip down some rims this year ( 6"10, 6"5, 6"5,6"4, 6"4,6"3)
Oak Grove seems to always be one of the Top teams in the region no matter who they have on the team.
NC... You never know... Talent but how does it get used.

CC bring back alot? And man NC must of done something wrong to you in the past bc you are a hater

You are right Packers21.... Still mad about the coaching staff yelling into the crowd last year. BUt NC always seems to have some really talented couple players that are really fun to watch and they just can not get it done. I don't know why....

[packers21]

I am a region 1 guy...

Enderlin is the Favorite. We all know about the Twins and the size and skill level. They don't just have those two players but at least 2 others that are extremely talented players as well.
CC brings lots back and they can win on any given night.
Kindred is Big and the most athletic team in the region. They don't have a ton of experience back but they can guard, run and rip down some rims this year ( 6"10, 6"5, 6"5,6"4, 6"4,6"3)
Oak Grove seems to always be one of the Top teams in the region no matter who they have on the team.
NC... You never know... Talent but how does it get used.

CC bring back alot? And man NC must of done something wrong to you in the past bc you are a hater

You are right Packers21.... Still mad about the coaching staff yelling into the crowd last year. BUt NC always seems to have some really talented couple players that are really fun to watch and they just can not get it done. I don't know why....

“Never get it done” Who has a more recent Region Crown? Pretty easy to make the argument Kindred has not been able to “get it done” the past few seasons not NC.

[The Schwab]

Very difficult to say what teams have underachieved. As far as the "yelling into the crowd" I believe that was discussed last year on this board. In every region there are always teams that do more with the talent than expected, less than expected and about the same. I wouldn't put NC in the less than expected category, but I don't follow a ton of region 1 action.

[BasketballMind]

I don't know enough about H-N, but after Azure and Konschak, who else can score for them? Their JV was a pretty average, middle of the pack team last year, maybe I'm forgetting someone for them, but I don't see them being deep enough to be considered the #2 team in the region in what seems to be a pretty unanimous opinion on the boards here and in the polls.

Those are two very good players to build around. They return their 6th man from last year (the Myron kid) and he did some really nice stuff. Assuming Azure and Konschak improve like they should and they can find a primary ball handler I think they will be a very good team again. I would have put them number 2 in the region as well but for me the question becomes who do you put ahead of them? HCV and Thompson lose almost everything from last year. To put either of those teams ahead of Hatton is just going based on previous success not what returns. Probably two of the two more complete teams bringing back all or most of their core are DVE and Midway. Would you put them ahead of Hatton? North Border returns a good core and had some interesting JV/Bench pieces but would you put them ahead of them? Every pre-season ranking has to make predictions based on what returns and Hatton returns two of the top 15 players (maybe top 10) in the region. In class B basketball that seems like enough to be a number 2 team in the region. Taking a region championship team returning very good players and putting them at 2 makes sense.

Personally I would put HCV in over them. I know they lost a ton from last year, but they have a ton of untapped talent that hasn't had their opportunity in varsity games yet and they've been practicing against Henningsgard, Reed, Limke, etc. the last few years. They may not come out of the chutes firing on all cylinders, but they're typically a team that is playing very well late in the year, especially lately. Even last year people counted them out because of their January stretch. So, maybe I'm thinking about the finish to the season rather than pre-season rankings and have just successfully talked myself out of my original opinion, haha!

[ND Sports Fan]

I am a region 1 guy...

Enderlin is the Favorite. We all know about the Twins and the size and skill level. They don't just have those two players but at least 2 others that are extremely talented players as well.
CC brings lots back and they can win on any given night.
Kindred is Big and the most athletic team in the region. They don't have a ton of experience back but they can guard, run and rip down some rims this year ( 6"10, 6"5, 6"5,6"4, 6"4,6"3)
Oak Grove seems to always be one of the Top teams in the region no matter who they have on the team.
NC... You never know... Talent but how does it get used.

How do you determine that CC "brings lots back"? They graduated 3 starters (including their leading offensive player) and 2 that came off the bench. They do return 2 starters, each of which have been All-Region players at one point or another. Their only other player who saw meaningful varsity action last year is recovering from a major knee injury. This team has 2 proven varsity level players. There is some young talent from their JV/C-squad ranks, but unproven at the varsity level.

[maddog1971]

[packers21]

I am a region 1 guy...

Enderlin is the Favorite. We all know about the Twins and the size and skill level. They don't just have those two players but at least 2 others that are extremely talented players as well.
CC brings lots back and they can win on any given night.
Kindred is Big and the most athletic team in the region. They don't have a ton of experience back but they can guard, run and rip down some rims this year ( 6"10, 6"5, 6"5,6"4, 6"4,6"3)
Oak Grove seems to always be one of the Top teams in the region no matter who they have on the team.
NC... You never know... Talent but how does it get used.

CC bring back alot? And man NC must of done something wrong to you in the past bc you are a hater

You are right Packers21.... Still mad about the coaching staff yelling into the crowd last year. BUt NC always seems to have some really talented couple players that are really fun to watch and they just can not get it done. I don't know why....

“Never get it done” Who has a more recent Region Crown? Pretty easy to make the argument Kindred has not been able to “get it done” the past few seasons not NC.

Packers21 If you making that Judgement on making it to State then your completely correct. Yes with Kindred rated last year as one of the top teams in state, not making it to state can be considered a failure.. I personally think being considered one of the top teams in state all year is not a failure but that is just me. I think winning the regular season region is not a failure. I think on any given night a team can play above their level and beat a much better team.... it happens all the time. Ask Kansas, Duke or any other blue blood program. That is what makes this sport so great.

You can spin your narrative however you want on Kindred. You Still didn't answer the questions that has been asked twice of you on your views of CC, you can at least be subjective there you dont have a personal attachment.

[Run4Fun2009]

I’m also interested on who all these names CC is bringing back. Thought it was Dixon and Kobbervig (May as well say both)

[maddog1971]

Ok... I have admitted that I have a bias against NC coaching staff.... Not their players. Sorry if you don't like that but .... I don't care.
I also just said CC brings back good players... if Dixon and Kobbervig are not enough of a talent for you ...
NC has Crockett.... and well maybe I an wrong and maybe they will be better than I think. Just my Opinion.
It is like Shiloh ... I see they are in some preseason rankings... I don't see it.
Enderline is unstoppable if they play an inside out game... they have the talent and size. If those boys never leave the paint... nobody will beat them. They have talent to step out and shoot but anybody 5 feet tall can do that.

I am just happy they will play this year... and let the games speak for themselves. Let's watch and enjoy the boys and girls playing.

[The Schwab]

Region 1 Enrollments: I wanted to do this for myself, because I'm not as familiar with the numbers on the east side of the state anymore.

Central Cass 279 (Hoopster has 246)
Kindred 232 (Hoopster has 200)
Lisbon 189 (Hoopster has 190)
Northern Cass 183 (Hoopster has 300)
Fargo Oak Grove 175 (Hoopster number)
Sargent County 168 (Hoopster has 178)
Tri-State 149 (I took this from the hoopster because I don't want to search for SD or MN enrollment data)
WL 125 (Hoopster has 110)
Enderlin 87 (Hoopster has 100)
Hankinson 82 (Hoopster has 90)
Maple Valley 82 (Hoopster has 60
Richland 64 (Hoopster has 85)

My takeaways from doing this:

1. Some of the larger schools try to make themselves sound smaller IMO
2. Some schools must put 7-12 numbers in there (I took 9-12 from fall enrollment off of DPI when possible)
3. Kindred or Central Cass or both of them should be in the region semi finals every year simply based on enrollment.

[RockNRoll]

My Top 10 (after viewing the Hoopster Book & Rankings)
1. Four Winds-Minnewaukan
2. Enderlin
3. Grafton
4. Rugby
5. Beulah
6. Dickinson Trinity
7. Shiloh Christian
8. Oakes
9. Linton-HMB
10. Langdon/Edmore/Munich

There are a lot of interesting matchups slated for this season

I have Four Winds number 1

[defensewinsgames]

Region 1 Enrollments: I wanted to do this for myself, because I'm not as familiar with the numbers on the east side of the state anymore.

Central Cass 279 (Hoopster has 246)
Kindred 232 (Hoopster has 200)
Lisbon 189 (Hoopster has 190)
Northern Cass 183 (Hoopster has 300)
Fargo Oak Grove 175 (Hoopster number)
Sargent County 168 (Hoopster has 178)
Tri-State 149 (I took this from the hoopster because I don't want to search for SD or MN enrollment data)
WL 125 (Hoopster has 110)
Enderlin 87 (Hoopster has 100)
Hankinson 82 (Hoopster has 90)
Maple Valley 82 (Hoopster has 60
Richland 64 (Hoopster has 85)

My takeaways from doing this:

1. Some of the larger schools try to make themselves sound smaller IMO
2. Some schools must put 7-12 numbers in there (I took 9-12 from fall enrollment off of DPI when possible)
3. Kindred or Central Cass or both of them should be in the region semi finals every year simply based on enrollment.

They often are. If you remember back to the old district days...District 1 always struggled to compete with District 2 because Kindred, Central Cass, Oak Grove would destroy those schools with tiny enrollments (thinking of small teams like Wyndmere, Lidgerwood, Sargent Central, FCT, Hankinson, even Milnor and Gwinner although they had some good years). Those biggest class B schools always seem to have a pretty significant advantage that just about guarantees they finish in the top 1/2 of the region every single year just by showing up because of enrollment alone. I would be curious when the last time schools like Kindred, Central Cass, Beulah, Hillsboro (then a few other schools that aren't quite as big like the privates, Thompson, Grafton, etc.) didn't finish in the top 6 or 7 teams in their regions. It gets even worse when those teams are dumped in with the smaller towns for football when numbers, physicality, size, and strength are more central to success (like under our new plan). The whales feast on the krill/shrimp, always have always will.

[Run4Fun2009]

Region 1 Enrollments: I wanted to do this for myself, because I'm not as familiar with the numbers on the east side of the state anymore.

Central Cass 279 (Hoopster has 246)
Kindred 232 (Hoopster has 200)
Lisbon 189 (Hoopster has 190)
Northern Cass 183 (Hoopster has 300)
Fargo Oak Grove 175 (Hoopster number)
Sargent County 168 (Hoopster has 178)
Tri-State 149 (I took this from the hoopster because I don't want to search for SD or MN enrollment data)
WL 125 (Hoopster has 110)
Enderlin 87 (Hoopster has 100)
Hankinson 82 (Hoopster has 90)
Maple Valley 82 (Hoopster has 60
Richland 64 (Hoopster has 85)

My takeaways from doing this:

1. Some of the larger schools try to make themselves sound smaller IMO
2. Some schools must put 7-12 numbers in there (I took 9-12 from fall enrollment off of DPI when possible)
3. Kindred or Central Cass or both of them should be in the region semi finals every year simply based on enrollment.

They often are. If you remember back to the old district days...District 1 always struggled to compete with District 2 because Kindred, Central Cass, Oak Grove would destroy those schools with tiny enrollments (thinking of small teams like Wyndmere, Lidgerwood, Sargent Central, FCT, Hankinson, even Milnor and Gwinner although they had some good years). Those biggest class B schools always seem to have a pretty significant advantage that just about guarantees they finish in the top 1/2 of the region every single year just by showing up because of enrollment alone. I would be curious when the last time schools like Kindred, Central Cass, Beulah, Hillsboro (then a few other schools that aren't quite as big like the privates, Thompson, Grafton, etc.) didn't finish in the top 6 or 7 teams in their regions. It gets even worse when those teams are dumped in with the smaller towns for football when numbers, physicality, size, and strength are more central to success (like under our new plan). The whales feast on the krill/shrimp, always have always will.

Oak Grove was the 10 seed in R1 one year (2016) but other than that not many actually come to mind from the schools you listed.

Some of your large schools still struggle in FB though...next year's plan will be interesting to see how it shakes out.

[Flip]

Going down some thread drift here, but now that the Griggs County Central era is over how many wins in their history do you think they had vs Grafton, boys and girls combined?

Adding to defensewinsgames if you look at girls basketball in region 2 Thompson and Grafton have finished the region tournament in the top 3 in the last 5 years. Thompson has been the region championship for I don't know how long. Don't get me wrong it isn't completely enrollment. They have a great system in place there.

[maddog1971]

Region 1 Enrollments: I wanted to do this for myself, because I'm not as familiar with the numbers on the east side of the state anymore.

Central Cass 279 (Hoopster has 246)
Kindred 232 (Hoopster has 200)
Lisbon 189 (Hoopster has 190)
Northern Cass 183 (Hoopster has 300)
Fargo Oak Grove 175 (Hoopster number)
Sargent County 168 (Hoopster has 178)
Tri-State 149 (I took this from the hoopster because I don't want to search for SD or MN enrollment data)
WL 125 (Hoopster has 110)
Enderlin 87 (Hoopster has 100)
Hankinson 82 (Hoopster has 90)
Maple Valley 82 (Hoopster has 60
Richland 64 (Hoopster has 85)

My takeaways from doing this:

1. Some of the larger schools try to make themselves sound smaller IMO
2. Some schools must put 7-12 numbers in there (I took 9-12 from fall enrollment off of DPI when possible)
3. Kindred or Central Cass or both of them should be in the region semi finals every year simply based on enrollment.

Class B State Appearance
Casselton 1954-55, 1965, 1968
Central Cass 1991, 1997, 2005, 2012
Enderlin 1937-38, 1951, 1956, 1959, 1977, 1990, 1996
Fargo Oak Grove 1949, 1954, 1957, 1969, 1986, 2000-01, 2010-11, 2014-15, 2017
Kindred 1962, 1974, 1983-84, 2002-03
Lisbon 1948-53, 1998-99, 2008
Milnor 1966, 1981, 2004, 2013
Northern Cass 2016
Richland 2006, 2019
Wyndmere/Lidgerwood 2018
Sargent Central 1960, 1964, 1978-79, 1993

[Run4Fun2009]

Class B State Appearance
Casselton 1954-55, 1965, 1968
Central Cass 1991, 1997, 2005, 2012
Enderlin 1937-38, 1951, 1956, 1959, 1977, 1990, 1996
Fargo Oak Grove 1949, 1954, 1957, 1969, 1986, 2000-01, 2010-11, 2014-15, 2017
Kindred 1962, 1974, 1983-84, 2002-03
Lisbon 1948-53, 1998-99, 2008
Milnor 1966, 1981, 2004, 2013
Northern Cass 2016
Richland 2006, 2019, 2020
Wyndmere/Lidgerwood 2018
Sargent Central 1960, 1964, 1978-79, 1993

May as well add Richland for 2020 even though tourney didn't happen.

North Sargent 2009
Hankinson 1988, 2007
Oakes 1970, 1972, 1980, 1994, 1995
Cass Valley North (NC) 1989
Fairmount 1973, 1982
Wyndmere 1971
Lidgerwood 1963

Side Note: 1976, 1992 was LaMoure when they were in R1

[defensewinsgames]

Going down some thread drift here, but now that the Griggs County Central era is over how many wins in their history do you think they had vs Grafton, boys and girls combined?

Adding to defensewinsgames if you look at girls basketball in region 2 Thompson and Grafton have finished the region tournament in the top 3 in the last 5 years. Thompson has been the region championship for I don't know how long. Don't get me wrong it isn't completely enrollment. They have a great system in place there.

But the enrollment sure doesn't hurt

[maddog1971]

Region 1 Enrollments: I wanted to do this for myself, because I'm not as familiar with the numbers on the east side of the state anymore.

Central Cass 279 (Hoopster has 246)
Kindred 232 (Hoopster has 200)
Lisbon 189 (Hoopster has 190)
Northern Cass 183 (Hoopster has 300)
Fargo Oak Grove 175 (Hoopster number)
Sargent County 168 (Hoopster has 178)
Tri-State 149 (I took this from the hoopster because I don't want to search for SD or MN enrollment data)
WL 125 (Hoopster has 110)
Enderlin 87 (Hoopster has 100)
Hankinson 82 (Hoopster has 90)
Maple Valley 82 (Hoopster has 60
Richland 64 (Hoopster has 85)

My takeaways from doing this:

1. Some of the larger schools try to make themselves sound smaller IMO
2. Some schools must put 7-12 numbers in there (I took 9-12 from fall enrollment off of DPI when possible)
3. Kindred or Central Cass or both of them should be in the region semi finals every year simply based on enrollment.

I am all aboard on saying that bigger schools do better but it does not mean they go to state every year. CC was there in 2012 and Kindred in 2003. Oak Grove is a private and I will not get into that.
But yes those two schools do not finish at the bottom of the region but always near the top.

[The Schwab]

Region 1 Enrollments: I wanted to do this for myself, because I'm not as familiar with the numbers on the east side of the state anymore.

Central Cass 279 (Hoopster has 246)
Kindred 232 (Hoopster has 200)
Lisbon 189 (Hoopster has 190)
Northern Cass 183 (Hoopster has 300)
Fargo Oak Grove 175 (Hoopster number)
Sargent County 168 (Hoopster has 178)
Tri-State 149 (I took this from the hoopster because I don't want to search for SD or MN enrollment data)
WL 125 (Hoopster has 110)
Enderlin 87 (Hoopster has 100)
Hankinson 82 (Hoopster has 90)
Maple Valley 82 (Hoopster has 60
Richland 64 (Hoopster has 85)

My takeaways from doing this:

1. Some of the larger schools try to make themselves sound smaller IMO
2. Some schools must put 7-12 numbers in there (I took 9-12 from fall enrollment off of DPI when possible)
3. Kindred or Central Cass or both of them should be in the region semi finals every year simply based on enrollment.

I am all aboard on saying that bigger schools do better but it does not mean they go to state every year. CC was there in 2012 and Kindred in 2003. Oak Grove is a private and I will not get into that.
But yes those two schools do not finish at the bottom of the region but always near the top.

So then you agree with my takeaways? Lol

[maddog1971]

Basically... except I think that Unlike Football.... smaller schools with a 5 good players beat bigger schools any day of the week. It only take 5.

[urserious]

Basically... except I think that Unlike Football.... smaller schools with a 5 good players beat bigger schools any day of the week. It only take 5.

Ok, now that we’re onto basketball and Kindred is a big school numbers don’t matter again. Gotcha!

[The Schwab]

Basically... except I think that Unlike Football.... smaller schools with a 5 good players beat bigger schools any day of the week. It only take 5.

Well, I disagree with your statement. A lot of times smaller school teams will get beat by bigger school teams because of depth. Your top 3 players on both teams may be comparable, but players 4-10 will usually be dominated by the larger schools. Are there exceptions? Absolutely.

[Run4Fun2009]

Basically... except I think that Unlike Football.... smaller schools with a 5 good players beat bigger schools any day of the week. It only take 5.

Well, I disagree with your statement. A lot of times smaller school teams will get beat by bigger school teams because of depth. Your top 3 players on both teams may be comparable, but players 4-10 will usually be dominated by the larger schools. Are there exceptions? Absolutely.

Maybe it only takes 5 good players in 9-man to make a difference; depth will always play a role in 11-man. However not all big schools have depth.

[The Schwab]

Basically... except I think that Unlike Football.... smaller schools with a 5 good players beat bigger schools any day of the week. It only take 5.

Well, I disagree with your statement. A lot of times smaller school teams will get beat by bigger school teams because of depth. Your top 3 players on both teams may be comparable, but players 4-10 will usually be dominated by the larger schools. Are there exceptions? Absolutely.

Maybe it only takes 5 good players in 9-man to make a difference; depth will always play a role in 11-man. However not all big schools have depth.

My response was my opinion on basketball only, not football.

[Run4Fun2009]

Basically... except I think that Unlike Football.... smaller schools with a 5 good players beat bigger schools any day of the week. It only take 5.

Well, I disagree with your statement. A lot of times smaller school teams will get beat by bigger school teams because of depth. Your top 3 players on both teams may be comparable, but players 4-10 will usually be dominated by the larger schools. Are there exceptions? Absolutely.

Maybe it only takes 5 good players in 9-man to make a difference; depth will always play a role in 11-man. However not all big schools have depth.

My response was my opinion on basketball only, not football.

My apologies...misinterpreted...typical long Monday