Zone defense in Junior High

[BasketballMind]

What is everyone's opinion on this? Personally, I'm 100% against it at all in Junior High. It allows you to train bad defenders to think they're good defenders. It also allows average-to-good defenders, become lazy. They believe they're good at defense because it worked in 7th and 8th grade.

More often than not, you're not going to run into many JH teams that have players who can shoot you out of a zone, much less find the gaps and attack it at the right time. There are obvious exceptions such as being short on players (I'm talking 5-6 total), but if you've got enough players to sub new guys in and out, and you're sitting in a zone to collect wins to your Junior High coaching mantle, you're doing your players a disservice. Any basketball coach could teach a 2-3 zone in 15 minutes at one practice. If that's your base defense, it will give most teams fits.

Some of the good teams will figure it out because they may have a few talented players that can do it on their own. But when your 8th grade 2-3 zone is successful, most of the time it isn't because you're running it like Syracuse. It's because at that age, it's more important to develop individual skills, basic offensive strategy, showing them what good man-to-man defense looks like, and to get them on the floor and let them learn.

Thoughts?

[The Schwab]

I firmly believe that the Junior High should be a reflection of the High School program. Concepts taught and schemes focused on should reflect that of the high school program. That being said, I don't feel zone defense should be focused on at that level.

[maddog1971]

I also think you should run what your High School Runs. With Travel ball being so popular these days, most kids have been working on man to man for 4 years already. That is the nature of sports currently. If your first year is 7th grade then you are way behind.
If your team is a pressure full court team then let them press, let them trap.
I personally never let the kids play a 2-3 zone but I let them play a 1-3-1 half court trap into man to man. That is what our high school program does so that is what I coached.

[B-oldtimer]

I may think differently than a lot of people on this site but kids need to play all types defenses and offenses if they are going to develop into team. I agree that to point that lower grades should reflect what higher grades are playing so they are prepared to compete at that level. My experience this attitude that zone defense is lazy defense was not what I was taught when we played it high school. It required quick lateral movement and was thinking mans defense you had to know your responsibilities and required 5 players playing together to not get beat by over shifting or being out of position. Also by time we were in high school zones we played it where it was match up man to man in your zone. This is why like idea kids being taught all types of defense when they are young because when they get older I have seen where players have struggled to learn zone defense to where a team couldn't play it because these kids couldn't learn and grasp was required to play these defenses. I may be in minority on this but zone defense is also part of the game you need to be able to play. That is why I hate see any restrictions put on the game for younger players its time for learning how to play the game.

[Flip]

What is everyone's opinion on this? Personally, I'm 100% against it at all in Junior High. It allows you to train bad defenders to think they're good defenders. It also allows average-to-good defenders, become lazy. They believe they're good at defense because it worked in 7th and 8th grade.

Do JH kids actually know who the good defenders are? and does it matter Johnny thinks he's good at defense, but he's actually average?

Any basketball coach could teach a 2-3 zone in 15 minutes at one practice. If that's your base defense, it will give most teams fits.

Really? Coaching HS kids to play zone for the first time doesn't go that easy for me. Can't imagine what it's like when they're 12 years old. Region 2 started to allow any defense 3-4 years ago at the JH level. Honestly, I can't think of 2 teams that have ran zone in that time frame.

Some of the good teams will figure it out because they may have a few talented players that can do it on their own. But when your 8th grade 2-3 zone is successful, most of the time it isn't because you're running it like Syracuse. It's because at that age, it's more important to develop individual skills, basic offensive strategy, showing them what good man-to-man defense looks like, and to get them on the floor and let them learn.

I read this stuff all the time on Twitter, but has there ever been a HS kid that you thought was underdeveloped because they played zone in JH? I prefer my JH teams to play man, but I think it is exaggerated how much it hurts development if they're playing zone.

[balla45]

I am not against playing zone in junior high. Players will likely see a zone at some point in high school so it is fine to expose teams and players to it. I have had teams hampered by an inability to operate against zone because we do not see it much. I have also coached a team with a very effective 1-2-2 switch up that gave some teams fits because they did not prepare for it. I think exposing players to many concepts at an early age is beneficial. I would never advocate that a team only plays a 2-3 or a 1-3-1, but think there is a benefit in at least having worked on it and worked against it so they are not shell shocked in a game.

[BasketballMind]

What is everyone's opinion on this? Personally, I'm 100% against it at all in Junior High. It allows you to train bad defenders to think they're good defenders. It also allows average-to-good defenders, become lazy. They believe they're good at defense because it worked in 7th and 8th grade.

Do JH kids actually know who the good defenders are? and does it matter Johnny thinks he's good at defense, but he's actually average?

Any basketball coach could teach a 2-3 zone in 15 minutes at one practice. If that's your base defense, it will give most teams fits.

Really? Coaching HS kids to play zone for the first time doesn't go that easy for me. Can't imagine what it's like when they're 12 years old. Region 2 started to allow any defense 3-4 years ago at the JH level. Honestly, I can't think of 2 teams that have ran zone in that time frame.

Some of the good teams will figure it out because they may have a few talented players that can do it on their own. But when your 8th grade 2-3 zone is successful, most of the time it isn't because you're running it like Syracuse. It's because at that age, it's more important to develop individual skills, basic offensive strategy, showing them what good man-to-man defense looks like, and to get them on the floor and let them learn.

I read this stuff all the time on Twitter, but has there ever been a HS kid that you thought was underdeveloped because they played zone in JH? I prefer my JH teams to play man, but I think it is exaggerated how much it hurts development if they're playing zone.

To your points:

1. Yes, some kids do know what being good at defense means because they're disciplined enough to get to the right position in help, not gamble for a steal and get burned backdoor, and they closeout/boxout well. In my opinion, it's not something they're going to develop if they sit in a 2-3 zone that isn't active. Most JH teams don't have enough kids that understand the game well enough to play a good zone defense. I played plenty of 2-3 zone in high school, so I'm not anti-zone defense. But in JH it feels like a lazy man/woman's defense because you can allow them to be pretty stationary in it and be successful. If a 7th grade team doesn't have shooters, they're probably screwed from the opening tip.

2. What I meant was, you could teach a JH team the basic lay-out of a 2-3 zone in a short amount of time. I don't mean a good 2-3 where there are actual defensive rotations and specific wrinkles to it based on your team. I mean a plain Jane, white bread, rec league 2-3 zone where the two guys on the top and three on the bottom don't move too far from their starting position. It's something that doesn't teach those kids anything about playing good zone defense, and they won't be any good at playing man defense against good players if that's all they do in JH.

3. I don't have a specific example of it, but if your JH team plays the type of zone I've been describing here, not because it's a reflection of your varsity, but because you use it as a white flag of not being able to stop anyone, it will 100% affect them in high school. We'll never know about those teams because they won't be making any noise around the state.

Again, I'm not against zone defense. Played plenty of it in my life, but JH teams don't have enough time to install a man and zone offense, learn to play man and zone defense, nor the personnel serious enough about basketball to buy-in.

It's harder to prepare for, because with the amount of turnover in coaching at the Junior High level, there's really no way to prepare for when you might see it. You could play 10 games in a row against teams that play straight man and only press if the games on the line late, and they need the ball back. Then you run into a coach you haven't seen before, and he sits in a 2-3 zone the entire game because he's not willing to make them play straight up. It's one thing when you play against "Coach ______" who everyone knows plays a 2-3 zone, or 1-3-1 halfcourt trap, or something that you can at least prepare for. There's no scouting in JH basketball, you just kinda assume most people play man and when they don't, a 12-14 year old brain isn't ready to process and adjust that quickly.

To me, it hinders their development more than helps it, and that's ultimately what JH basketball is about. I'm not crazy about pressing at that level either, but it at least makes sense because the kids have to be active and fly around the court to the ball. I personally think learning how to play half-court offense and defense is more helpful to their development in 7th and 8th grade over taking a group that is faster than everyone, slapping on a press, and shooting lay-ups against bad teams.

[balla45]

I understand that this is a Class B thread and I watch a lot of Class A. To your last paragraph, I can both agree and disagree at the same time. For the way that I coach basketball and a lot of teams do, I think there is a definite benefit in spending most time operating in the half court. A friend who coaches a team in Class A has implemented a system with frequent subbing and constant pressing and trapping all game, and has his 7th and 8th grade teams doing it as well. 5 in 5 out every minute or so. Their thought process being that we want players to adjust to playing fast and having to make quick decisions. In their scenario they play a zone type of full court trap and pressure man defense in the half court, and while it may not develop traditional slow it down and run a set type of basketball players, I think there is something to be said for developing players who are used to playing with a high pace. I kind of think with basketball, the philosophy of the varsity basketball coach should almost completely trickle down in to the subvarsity and junior high teams.

[BasketballMind]

I understand that this is a Class B thread and I watch a lot of Class A. To your last paragraph, I can both agree and disagree at the same time. For the way that I coach basketball and a lot of teams do, I think there is a definite benefit in spending most time operating in the half court. A friend who coaches a team in Class A has implemented a system with frequent subbing and constant pressing and trapping all game, and has his 7th and 8th grade teams doing it as well. 5 in 5 out every minute or so. Their thought process being that we want players to adjust to playing fast and having to make quick decisions. In their scenario they play a zone type of full court trap and pressure man defense in the half court, and while it may not develop traditional slow it down and run a set type of basketball players, I think there is something to be said for developing players who are used to playing with a high pace. I kind of think with basketball, the philosophy of the varsity basketball coach should almost completely trickle down in to the subvarsity and junior high teams.

I think there is something to that for sure. And when you have higher level players at the JH level, you can definitely do that. Playing in the half-court for me doesn't mean you can't push the pace and play fast, it just means you're forcing your players to guard in a half-court setting, locate the ball and their man, rather than putting them on the wing in a 2-3 and tell them not to move. I've seen plenty of teams that sat in a 2-3 and they just left the 3-point line wide open all game over the years. So not only does that prevent you from running any type of offense, but now you've got to convince 12-14 year old boys not to chuck up a three when it's literally wide open every time they touch the ball. There's nothing available in the paint, and at that age you don't have a lot of players that shoot it that well to get them out of that type of defense. You get nothing out of any half-court possession for either team. I'm all about players developing in JH and I really don't see how playing zone defense all game, every game prepares them very well for high school basketball. You've gotta be able to play man-to-man defense if you're going to play zone.

[maddog1971]

Basketball is a game that is ever changing. 30 years ago if you came down the floor and shot a 3 you were on the bench. Now statics show that a 3 shot off an offensive rebound on a kick out is the highest percentage shot when taking a 3. Running, fast pace, aggressive in your face D is how the game is now played. My dad told me to never dribble between my legs or back because that is just showing off... Well no... i

The game changes..... trapping double teams and shooting the 3 ball is the way the game is played. Like it or not.

I will agree that it is ugly basketball to watch and I don't like it. But having kids just stand in a 2 - 3 zone and not move is just a bad coach. And if you kids can not hit wide open shots then they need to work on the jumper.... shooting layups all game in the half court is not really teaching them anything either.

[BasketballMind]

Basketball is a game that is ever changing. 30 years ago if you came down the floor and shot a 3 you were on the bench. Now statics show that a 3 shot off an offensive rebound on a kick out is the highest percentage shot when taking a 3. Running, fast pace, aggressive in your face D is how the game is now played. My dad told me to never dribble between my legs or back because that is just showing off... Well no... i

The game changes..... trapping double teams and shooting the 3 ball is the way the game is played. Like it or not.

I will agree that it is ugly basketball to watch and I don't like it. But having kids just stand in a 2 - 3 zone and not move is just a bad coach. And if you kids can not hit wide open shots then they need to work on the jumper.... shooting layups all game in the half court is not really teaching them anything either.

I think teaching how to read screens, back cut, make good passes, and make lay-ups from every angle is much better for them than jacking up a bunch of three's to get ready for a zone. I also think working on zig-zag drills, close-out drills, defensive shell, and how to rotate and see the ball and your man is better than installing a zone defense that allows them to stand still and be successful because the basketball IQ of the average Junior High kid isn't ready to break down a zone defense.

Most kids don't develop their outside shot until they're in high school. If they can shoot it in Junior High it's pretty rare. Maybe one or two kids at most should be shooting three's. Problem is now, they all think they should because that's what they see on TV. They don't see the hours those guys put in to develop the shot. They just think that's how basketball is played. If you put the work in and can knock them down at the right time, fire away. Most don't do that, but still think they're 3-point shooters.

Most kids in Junior High need work on their shot mechanics and footwork. Most shouldn't be shooting 3's at all. Everyone wants to be a 3-point shooter and think all you gotta do is jack up a bunch of them and it'll get better. It might improve as you get older, but if you don't constantly work on mechanics and footwork in the youth days, they'll be wildly inconsistent.

What's more important: Working on shooting progression, perfect form, basic footwork and shots from 2-15 feet every practice or installing a 2-3 zone and a press? If your answer isn't the first option, I feel pity for your players.

Short shots around the basket, Mikans from both angles, jumpers to force stepping with each foot first should be a high priority at this age. Just my opinion. I'm sure some reading this will scoff at that idea and continue to let their 5 best athletes press a bunch of teams they know can't break it.

"Well then, teach 'em how to break it!" (There, I just saved you a response)

When those kids get to high school and can't win in the post-season, because those other teams have players who can now break a press, remember this thread.

[The Schwab]

I think this topic has two vastly different angles that you can view it from.

I think the first would be what IMO started this topic: Teams in JH that install a zone press and employ it the whole game and get steals/layups the whole game. IMO that is not an effective use of game situations, but I don't coach other peoples programs, so they can do what they see fit.

The second take on this would be to install different types of defenses and work on them in practice (which I feel is a far, far better option). I also wouldn't have a problem with playing them in a game (switching things up would make your players more court aware and could also improve communication).

I do agree with BasketballMind in the fact that I would much rather use my practice time at younger ages to work on skill development and footwork (such a huge, huge teaching point in an era where fundamentals are being lost)

[classB4ever]

Many good points brought up. One other point to add: When taught properly, IMHO zone defenses are more physically demanding than man to man. Much more territory to cover, especially in odd man front/base line where those defenders are traveling long distances. Have always felt people calling zone defense the "lazy defense" haven't played under a coach who has taught them properly. 2 cents.

[Sniper]

Many good points brought up. One other point to add: When taught properly, IMHO zone defenses are more physically demanding than man to man. Much more territory to cover, especially in odd man front/base line configurations where those defenders are traveling long distances while ball is in the air. Have always felt people calling zone defense the "lazy defense" haven't played under a coach who has taught them properly. 2 cents.

I agree with this. I will add that zoning can allow you to hide a big post who cannot move much. In a 2-3 you can put a big in the paint as a rim protector and rebounder and they will not move as much as if they were playing man to man and having to cover ball screens. If your top two guards are quick enough you can have them cover some of the high post area responsibilities that the middle man would normally have which allows him to sit deeper in the paint.

[maddog1971]

I just believe in today's game if a kid in 7th grade has not been playing for 2 or 3 years by now they are way behind. Parents need to work with the kids in the driveway.... take what the coaches teach and work at home. You never have enough time in practice to work on shooting form the whole practice. Kids in 7th grade can shoot 3's but breaking a zone is not about hoisting up deep shots. Teach your kids to penetrate and kick or finish at the rim. Ball movement... passing the ball... Zone defense (which I hate and never coached kids in a 2-3 zone... ever) but half court traps, corner traps.... i am all for and I do teach.
I was coached with nothing but fundamentals... all practice.... very little on how the game was to be played. Now I coach the kids on how to be successful but they need to put work in on their own to build their skill set up. Also If you coach a team and don't let you big kid dribble or shoot the 3's if he has one... You need to get out of the 70's 80's 90's.

[defensewinsgames]

I just believe in today's game if a kid in 7th grade has not been playing for 2 or 3 years by now they are way behind. Parents need to work with the kids in the driveway.... take what the coaches teach and work at home. You never have enough time in practice to work on shooting form the whole practice. Kids in 7th grade can shoot 3's but breaking a zone is not about hoisting up deep shots. Teach your kids to penetrate and kick or finish at the rim. Ball movement... passing the ball... Zone defense (which I hate and never coached kids in a 2-3 zone... ever) but half court traps, corner traps.... i am all for and I do teach.
I was coached with nothing but fundamentals... all practice.... very little on how the game was to be played. Now I coach the kids on how to be successful but they need to put work in on their own to build their skill set up. Also If you coach a team and don't let you big kid dribble or shoot the 3's if he has one... You need to get out of the 70's 80's 90's.

I would agree with the portion of this on fundamentals. I think most (not all) kids are lacking in fundamentals when they get to jr. high/high school basketball. AAU/travel ball/etc all teach them to "play games" not to play basketball (this is just my opinion obviously others will disagree). Young kids play too many games and don't spend enough working on skills like shooting, ball handling, footwork, etc. On another topic...I don't disagree that man defense should be taught in Jr. High but hate and strongly disagree with zone defense being a lazy man's d and that it is easy to teach. It is not easy to teach well and is just as much work as man if done correctly. I understand it isn't always done correctly and that is why it gets the reputation it does but I hate hearing people say it is lazy.