Mr. Basketball 07

[baller01]

i have not played in class b so i dont know how hard it is to make state there that is true but you guys dont play class a and see some of the really good teams that dont make state devil's lake for example it mite be HARDER in b but it is still hard to make state in class a

It is hard to make a state tournament in any division. They aren't just handed out. But 18 teams compared to 126 teams. I'd consider just making it to a state tournament in class B a great achievement.

[ndbb]

this argument is stupid.  Class A basketball as a whole is a higher level than class B. Class A has what 18 teams, and class B has what like 110 or something?  Big deal there are more teams, I bet over 95% of those Class B teams could not beat the bottom 9 of Class A.  People's numbers are high in Class B because only the state competitors in Class B have 5 or more people who can put up consistent numbers day in day out. In Class A, everyone on the court can be a weapon.  I predict that 80%, if not more,  of the starters in Class A could score 10 points a game in Class B.  Can that be said the same of starters in class B teams in a class A game? 

[cdub1]

That's my point exactly..Devils Lake was the best team in class A last year and lost two games.....and didnt make it....and that ment that a team below average got in.....I can only think of 2 instances where teams from class B have had a losing record....Berthold in 2002 or 2003 when they had all of those players kicked out for 6 weeks..came back and made it...they were a really good team...the were under .500...and central cass 2 years ago was at .500 and came out of Region 1...after Maple Valley was upset.....

that is a good point i will kinda agree with you there but i dont know if you see what im saying in that it cant be easy to make state a if you are the best team and you dont

[baller01]

That's my point exactly..Devils Lake was the best team in class A last year and lost two games.....and didnt make it....and that ment that a team below average got in.....I can only think of 2 instances where teams from class B have had a losing record....Berthold in 2002 or 2003 when they had all of those players kicked out for 6 weeks..came back and made it...they were a really good team...the were under .500...and central cass 2 years ago was at .500 and came out of Region 1...after Maple Valley was upset.....

I don't think it was all their players. I think it was just Adam Grant, who was an AMAZING player. I believe they took 2nd in state that year. They probably would have gone undefeated in the regular season had he played all year.

[The Schwab]

Craig Nelson Graduated in 2003......lost the Mr. Bball by one vote to Tyler Koenig.....Nelson is one of the top 5 players i've personally seen play the game.....he was amazing....one of those kids who could score at will...but chose to get his team involved......The other that i was going to mention was Travis Kraft...a player who could do EVERYTHING....lost to Jeff Brandt of Minot.....Now i know ur gunna say that Brandt and Koenig were good players.....But they werent even close to Nelson and Kraft...PERIOD

[The Schwab]

I'm almost positive that it was there top 6 players that got kicked off...but i could be wrong....

[cdub1]

Craig Nelson Graduated in 2003......lost the Mr. Bball by one vote to Tyler Koenig.....Nelson is one of the top 5 players i've personally seen play the game.....he was amazing....one of those kids who could score at will...but chose to get his team involved......The other that i was going to mention was Travis Kraft...a player who could do EVERYTHING....lost to Jeff Brandt of Minot.....Now i know ur gunna say that Brandt and Koenig were good players.....But they werent even close to Nelson and Kraft...PERIOD

i'm not going to argue with you on this because i dint see any of the b players play so there is no way i would know

[baller01]

this argument is stupid.  Class A basketball as a whole is a higher level than class B. Class A has what 18 teams, and class B has what like 110 or something?  Big deal there are more teams, I bet over 95% of those Class B teams could not beat the bottom 9 of Class A.  People's numbers are high in Class B because only the state competitors in Class B have 5 or more people who can put up consistent numbers day in day out. In Class A, everyone on the court can be a weapon.  I predict that 80%, if not more,  of the starters in Class A could score 10 points a game in Class B.  Can that be said the same of starters in class B teams in a class A game? 

I'd sure hope they would be at a higher level. They have 300+ males to choose from to field a varsity team. We aren't comparing class B teams to class A. We are arguing what state tournament it is harder to make it to. You have to be top 4 out of 9 to make it to state in class A. You have to be THEE top one out of a region that consists of atleast 15 teams. Some have more, and some have less.

[baller01]

I'm almost positive that it was there top 6 players that got kicked off...but i could be wrong....

You could be correct. There might have been 6 players kicked off. If I remember correctly they BARELY won the disctrict play in game. At that time they got there team back. Went into districts as the #8 seed. Won districts going away. Won regionals. Took 2nd in state. I believe they lost to, Craig Nelson and MPCG.

[cdub1]

this argument is stupid.  Class A basketball as a whole is a higher level than class B. Class A has what 18 teams, and class B has what like 110 or something?  Big deal there are more teams, I bet over 95% of those Class B teams could not beat the bottom 9 of Class A.  People's numbers are high in Class B because only the state competitors in Class B have 5 or more people who can put up consistent numbers day in day out. In Class A, everyone on the court can be a weapon.  I predict that 80%, if not more,  of the starters in Class A could score 10 points a game in Class B.  Can that be said the same of starters in class B teams in a class A game? 

I'd sure hope they would be at a higher level. They have 300+ males to choose from to field a varsity team. We aren't comparing class B teams to class A. We are arguing what state tournament it is harder to make it to. You have to be top 4 out of 9 to make it to state in class A. You have to be THEE top one out of a region that consists of atleast 15 teams. Some have more, and some have less.

i am not sayin it is easier to make it to state in class b all i said was it is hard to make it in a i even said it prolly was harder to make it in a there is no way  you should say it is ever easy to make state it takes a good team a good coach good everything or you wont make state

[The Schwab]

You would be correct in saying that...they lost by two points....35-33 i believe....

[baller01]

Exactly, but there are way more teams to go through. You can say well some of those teams are weaker. In districts they might be, because almost everyone makes districts. But in regionals you have the top 4 out of each district. Kinda like class A does for state. But in class B you still have to WIN in your region to go to state. It would be like having to win the WDA or EDA to go to state. Then it wouldn't be to easy.

[baseball]

just to clear it up i never once said it was EASY to make state a.....all i said was it takes more to get to state b which in return makes it harder.

look at it this way if there was a national tournament for class a.  take top 4 in the region and win state.  that is the equivilent to taking top 4 in districts and winning a region in class B.  that would be the best way i coudl sum it up.

[cdub1]

now look at all the arguments we can come up with and then try to find a way to vote for a mr. basketball winner when no matter what way you look at it you cant prove one player is better than another when it comes to the best players in the state in my opinion i think kick is the best many others say lorenz others say qvale on and on and on you cant prove it becuz they play against different competition on different teams even in b i think it would be easier to score in some districts than other but enough of the argument cause we cant get anywhere

[The Schwab]

Exactly...which is why i'm in favor of them getting rid of the Award

[baseball]

now look at all the arguments we can come up with and then try to find a way to vote for a mr. basketball winner when no matter what way you look at it you cant prove one player is better than another when it comes to the best players in the state in my opinion i think kick is the best many others say lorenz others say qvale on and on and on you cant prove it becuz they play against different competition on different teams even in b i think it would be easier to score in some districts than other but enough of the argument cause we cant get anywhere

People are going to vote Kick in the dickinson area, Qvale in the williston area, Lorenz in the Mayport and, Ironheart in the four winds area, etc.....thats is why class A always wins all the people who vote are in the class a towns like dickinson and williston where mayport and fourwinds dont have voters.

[baller01]

now look at all the arguments we can come up with and then try to find a way to vote for a mr. basketball winner when no matter what way you look at it you cant prove one player is better than another when it comes to the best players in the state in my opinion i think kick is the best many others say lorenz others say qvale on and on and on you cant prove it becuz they play against different competition on different teams even in b i think it would be easier to score in some districts than other but enough of the argument cause we cant get anywhere

Very good post Cdub. You will never find a Mr. Basketball winner that everyone thinks deserves it. Except Jeff Boschee, he by far and away was the best that year. But I think it just goes to show that if it isn't a clear choice, class A gets it. You can't tell me that over the past 11 years. There hasn't been 1 class B athlete that didn't deserve Mr. Basketball. Craig Nelson and Kyle Carr both got hosed IMO. Them two are just two that I can think of right away. I'm sure there have been other over the past 11 years.

[baller01]

Exactly...which is why i'm in favor of them getting rid of the Award

Why get rid of it though. It doesn't hurt anyone. It might not always go to the deserving winner but its still an honor to say you were up for the award. Don't get rid of it. It's nice to argue about, haha.

[cdub1]

now look at all the arguments we can come up with and then try to find a way to vote for a mr. basketball winner when no matter what way you look at it you cant prove one player is better than another when it comes to the best players in the state in my opinion i think kick is the best many others say lorenz others say qvale on and on and on you cant prove it becuz they play against different competition on different teams even in b i think it would be easier to score in some districts than other but enough of the argument cause we cant get anywhere

Very good post Cdub. You will never find a Mr. Basketball winner that everyone thinks deserves it. Except Jeff Boschee, he by far and away was the best that year. But I think it just goes to show that if it isn't a clear choice, class A gets it. You can't tell me that over the past 11 years. There hasn't been 1 class B athlete that didn't deserve Mr. Basketball. Craig Nelson and Kyle Carr both got hosed IMO. Them two are just two that I can think of right away. I'm sure there have been other over the past 11 years.

ill agree with that a gets the benefit of the doubt and i think carr should have got it over hennessey i think it was that year i could be wrong

[baller01]

now look at all the arguments we can come up with and then try to find a way to vote for a mr. basketball winner when no matter what way you look at it you cant prove one player is better than another when it comes to the best players in the state in my opinion i think kick is the best many others say lorenz others say qvale on and on and on you cant prove it becuz they play against different competition on different teams even in b i think it would be easier to score in some districts than other but enough of the argument cause we cant get anywhere

Very good post Cdub. You will never find a Mr. Basketball winner that everyone thinks deserves it. Except Jeff Boschee, he by far and away was the best that year. But I think it just goes to show that if it isn't a clear choice, class A gets it. You can't tell me that over the past 11 years. There hasn't been 1 class B athlete that didn't deserve Mr. Basketball. Craig Nelson and Kyle Carr both got hosed IMO. Them two are just two that I can think of right away. I'm sure there have been other over the past 11 years.

ill agree with that a gets the benefit of the doubt and i think carr should have got it over hennessey i think it was that year i could be wrong

Yes, that would be the year. I think he was second in the voting. I thought Englahardt from BHS should have got it before Hennessey even. Whenever those to squared off Englahardt shut him down. Obviously if he could shut Hennessey down he was the better player, maybe not scorer, but Mr. Basketball is the best player, not the highest scorer.

[baseball]

this has aboslutely nothing to do with basketball but im just gonna throw it out there....why isnt there a mr baseball or mr football or anything like that?

[baller01]

this has aboslutely nothing to do with basketball but im just gonna throw it out there....why isnt there a mr baseball or mr football or anything like that?

haha, look at how much trouble we are having picking a Mr. Basketball winner out of 2 classes. Football has 4. Try comparing a 9-man player to a 3A player. We can't figure out a winner for class B and class A for basketball let alone try to figure out a winner for Mr. Football with 9-man, 1A, 2A, and 3A.

[baseball]

this has aboslutely nothing to do with basketball but im just gonna throw it out there....why isnt there a mr baseball or mr football or anything like that?

haha, look at how much trouble we are having picking a Mr. Basketball winner out of 2 classes. Football has 4. Try comparing a 9-man player to a 3A player. We can't figure out a winner for class B and class A for basketball let alone try to figure out a winner for Mr. Football with 9-man, 1A, 2A, and 3A.

haha like i said just throwing it out there.

[NATURAL TALENT]

I'm almost positive that it was there top 6 players that got kicked off...but i could be wrong....

2 starters. Adam Grant and another guy who made some clutch free throws in the semi's to make it to the 'ship. I cant seem to think of his name even though its at the tip of my tongue.

[rep]

don't mean to jump into a topic that has progressed beyond a certain point, but i think something should be added about beau sizer. he scored a ton of points against two teams that are struggling to win games this year (edgeley and tappen i believe), had about 30 vs. midkota (which i consider to be a legit accomplishment) and then was held to 10 against ellendale as bcn lost 42-40 on friday night. there might be another game in there that he played that i'm forgetting about, but those are the ones that come to mind.

if sizer was dropping 30 on some of the lower-tier teams and say, 20 against the starters of some of the top teams, i think he would get more consideration. but when i look at his stats, i see these 10-15 point games against the top teams and 30-40 points against the lower teams.

yes, he has an impressive scoring average for those that care about that. i'm personally impressed with his rebounding total more though. and i maintain that if you can't get your team into at least the regional tournament, you probably aren't an all-state player.

i think the argument could be made that you don't have to get your team to state in order to be mr. basketball. personally i don't buy it...i think it is an award for those that have made it to the highest stage and if you are the best player in the state, you should have gotten your team to the last tournament. but, then again, i've never faced a box and 1 defense either...