North Dakota Preps

Will be posted sometime after 7p CT on Mondays

FIRST POLL
Monday, December 12th

1. Four Winds-Minnewaukan (14) 0-0 166
2. Dickinson Trinity (3) 1-0 148
3. Northern Cass 1-0 140
4. Hillsboro-Central Valley 1-0 110
5. Parshall 0-0 85
6. Bishop Ryan 0-0 64
7. Shiloh Christian 0-1 60
8. Des Lacs-Burlington 0-0 33
9. Thompson 0-0 31
10. Ellendale 0-1 21
Others Receiving Votes: North Star (0-0), Central Cass (1-0), Oak Grove (0-0), Solen (0-0), Our Redeemer's (0-0), Beulah (0-0), Larimore (0-0), Grafton (0-0), Stanley (0-0), Linton-HMB (0-0), Midway-Minto (1-0).

SECOND POLL
Monday, December 19th

1. Four Winds-Minnewaukan (10) 0-0 153
2. Dickinson Trinity (6) 4-0 148
3. Northern Cass 2-0 122
4. Hillsboro-Central Valley 2-0 102
5. Des Lacs-Burlington 2-0 81
6. Bishop Ryan 1-0 69
7. Thompson 2-0 67
8. Shiloh Christian 0-1 47
9. North Star 2-0 25
10. Parshall 0-1 22
Others Receiving Votes: Ellendale (2-1), Oak Grove (1-0), Grafton (2-0), Central Cass (1-2), Larimore (1-0), Solen (0-0), Beulah (1-0), Linton-HMB (1-0), Carrington (3-0), Kenmare (4-0), Lisbon (4-0), St. John (3-0).

How little thought is put into voting for the Class B boys poll? I'm serious, how little? Opinions can differ, I'm fine with that. The area I'm most familiar with is eastern ND. So I'm going to pick on that voting. I think NC should be #2 but there is nothing wrong with 3. I think HCV is alright where they are. They are possibly a bit overrated based on being fron region 2. Region 2 isn't what it was years ago. Thompson is a little high , but I wouldn't slide them down much. Ellendale IMO is the best team in their region and as such should be on the list somewhere. High in the receiving votes is probably right after their loss in game one to Cenreal Cass. Oak Grove is probably ranked a bit to high. After their playoff run last year they finished 11-13. They return basically everyone, but the region is better than last year. I think they are a little over hyped based on 2 games at the end of last season. Grafton could be higher. I'd probably flip flop them and Thompson. Grafton was a bit of a surprise at state last year, but they are well coached and defense always shows up for them. Central Cass.... they are about the seventh best team in the region. How can they be getting votes in the state poll? I know they weren't 1-3 when the poll votes were taken, but they are now and I don't think anyone is surprised. If there is a surprise, it's that they are not 0-4, they did have a nice home win in the first game vs Ellendale. Larimore may belong on the list, but in a region that isn't very strong, four teams in the poll may be to many. With Linton's tradition they are probably ok where they are. Lisbon..... they are bottom 4 team in the region. They are 4-0, but they may be the underdog in every game left on their schedule. That is not an exaggeration. St. John probably isn't getting enough credit, but they are pretty good, and it will probably come if they earn it.

So after all that, in looking it over, I guess my serious issue with Central Cass and Lisbon. Those two in particular, I don't think anyone who likes or follows Class B ball can argue with.

d_fense wrote:How little thought is put into voting for the Class B boys poll? I'm serious, how little? Opinions can differ, I'm fine with that. The area I'm most familiar with is eastern ND. So I'm going to pick on that voting. I think NC should be #2 but there is nothing wrong with 3. I think HCV is alright where they are. They are possibly a bit overrated based on being fron region 2. Region 2 isn't what it was years ago. Thompson is a little high , but I wouldn't slide them down much. Ellendale IMO is the best team in their region and as such should be on the list somewhere. High in the receiving votes is probably right after their loss in game one to Cenreal Cass. Oak Grove is probably ranked a bit to high. After their playoff run last year they finished 11-13. They return basically everyone, but the region is better than last year. I think they are a little over hyped based on 2 games at the end of last season. Grafton could be higher. I'd probably flip flop them and Thompson. Grafton was a bit of a surprise at state last year, but they are well coached and defense always shows up for them. Central Cass.... they are about the seventh best team in the region. How can they be getting votes in the state poll? I know they weren't 1-3 when the poll votes were taken, but they are now and I don't think anyone is surprised. If there is a surprise, it's that they are not 0-4, they did have a nice home win in the first game vs Ellendale. Larimore may belong on the list, but in a region that isn't very strong, four teams in the poll may be to many. With Linton's tradition they are probably ok where they are. Lisbon..... they are bottom 4 team in the region. They are 4-0, but they may be the underdog in every game left on their schedule. That is not an exaggeration. St. John probably isn't getting enough credit, but they are pretty good, and it will probably come if they earn it.

So after all that, in looking it over, I guess my serious issue with Central Cass and Lisbon. Those two in particular, I don't think anyone who likes or follows Class B ball can argue with.

Early Polls are always a crap-shoot...same with football. When more games are played the media polls will start looking more 'normal'. Polls don't mean anything...just a label.

I agree Run. But why would someone vote if they don't care enough to know something about the teams?

d_fense you and Run4Fun are both spot on. Why vote if your un"inforum"ed? (like the play on words?) So many voters and the like don't look at the quality of the wins or losses just that they won. Lisbon, while I have heard from many they are out preforming expectations, expectations were not very high. They are 4-0 against teams with a combined 1-10 record and the one win was against another team from the group. Their big win was a 10point win in "the goat game" with Enderlin in which Enderlin shot 26% as a team. I expect Central Cass to compete in many games this year but I would expect them to finish the year about .500. Top to bottom I would say Region 1 is one of the toughest in the state but I need more info before I set my own top ten.

Also to note...it seems for the first 3 or 4 weeks the polls resemble the Hoopster's ranking a bit too much. The Hoopster's ranking is the 8 region #1's ranked 1 through 8; 8 region #2's ranked 9-16; etc. for Top 40.

Not a very accurate ranking as one region may have 3 or 4 teams ahead of another regions #1 or #2.

d_fense wrote:I agree Run. But why would someone vote if they don't care enough to know something about the teams?

Not every media member has seen every team (at least definitely not this early in the year...some will see most Top teams play at some point this year)...so early polls are basically looking at records and such. Some media voters don't utilize the websites that are out there to show SOS (Strength of Schedule, etc.) to help in voting. BUT AGAIN, the poll is meaningless to a team...the poll doesn't automatically win you a game OR get you to State! It is a subjective ranking...nothing more.

Shiloh had a rough start to their season, but has made significant progress between the Dickinson Trinity and Minot Ryan game. I think we will continue to see Ogbu and Young thrive as posts and Fagerland become a solid floor general. With some help in shooting from Pfaff and Mitzel this team will have a tournament quality offense to add to an already impressive defense.

Oak Grove has a lot of experience and shooting they could be a dark horse in that region. Anyone else see that happening?

I totally agree with the assessment of the Polls . Dickinson Trinity is not worthy of #2 in the Polls just because they beat Shiloh. My reasoning I was very disturbed with the way that game was refereed . The refs controlled the tempo of the game ( meaning one team could do anything it wanted no foul, the other team got called for everything) which I attended at Dickinson Trinity. Shiloh had 4 players with 4 fouls with one fouling out. The other 5 players had 2 .If you go and look at the Bismarck Tribune or Dickinson Press they only show Shiloh had 15 fouls and no one fouled out and Dickinson Trinity had 13 fouls. With those stats clearly the outcome of the game would have been different. Having said that Shiloh should not even be in the polls. They definitely have talent and they are deep .But I see no teamwork , they do not run a offense, it appears it's all about "ME" and how many points I have at the end of the game in the paper. There is a major rift in the Team when a player is to come off the floor and will not acknowledge his own teammate that subs for him very unsportmanship like he should of been sat on the bench the rest of the game. If this is not corrected they will not win their district. So these Polls are not correct.

I am referring to the Bishop Ryan Game on Thursday night. Which they barely won.

CLASSB123 wrote:Oak Grove has a lot of experience and shooting they could be a dark horse in that region. Anyone else see that happening?

Not sure how anyone who watches Region 1 would ever call Oak Grove a "darkhorse". I would cosider them one of the favorites. I would say Northern Cass, Oak Grove, Kindred, Hankinson and M-NS. In no particular order at this point. I also think if you plugged these five into Region 2 that 4 of them would be in the top five there. Just my two cents.

I will first address the comments made about Shiloh. They did show a lot better teamwork in the bishop Ryan game. I 100% agree they did not play as a team in that first game but showed a huge difference in the bishop Ryan game. Their offense is run through the posts and they got it in to the posts which allowed Pfaff along with their other 2 young guards to have open shots. I do however think this team needs a person to take control and have everyone else know what they're roll is. From watching them I would say Ogbu needs to drive to the basket his speed allows him to blow past almost anyone in the state but he seems to like the pull up jumper too much, Young needs to demand the ball in the post with him being 6'9 he could score on most guys in the post, Fagerland needs to become a floor general he is replacing Zac Martin and needs to direct the floor like Martin did (this may be Shiloh's biggest need), Mitzel needs to be a cutter he can't expect to get the ball and drive to the basket with as many guys as Shiloh has but he does have the ability to hit open shots so if he can find a way to be a smart cutter in the offense and find a way to lose his man with those cuts and out on the three point line, Pfaff needs to hve more confidence and knock some shots the kid has shot so well the past 2 years but doesn't seem to have the same spark this season so he needs to find it. This has a solid bench defensively but lacks a lot of scoring from the bench. As I said before this has shown a very impressive defense already but needs to figure out and offense that works as a team.

wan2bqb wrote:

CLASSB123 wrote:Oak Grove has a lot of experience and shooting they could be a dark horse in that region. Anyone else see that happening?

Not sure how anyone who watches Region 1 would ever call Oak Grove a "darkhorse". I would cosider them one of the favorites. I would say Northern Cass, Oak Grove, Kindred, Hankinson and M-NS. In no particular order at this point. I also think if you plugged these five into Region 2 that 4 of them would be in the top five there. Just my two cents.

I guess the words dark horse wasn't the correct term to use. What I meant by that was they could be the team to possibly upset the favorite Northern Cass.

THIRD POLL
Monday, December 26th

1. Four Winds-Minnewaukan (10) 2-0 117
2. Dickinson Trinity (2) 4-0 108
3. Northern Cass 3-0 94
4. Thompson 3-0 76
5. Hillsboro-Central Valley 3-0 72
6. Shiloh Christian 1-1 48
7. North Star 2-0 34
8. Beulah 2-0 30
9. Bishop Ryan 2-1 28
10. Des Lacs-Burlington 2-1 19
Others Receiving Votes: Carrington (4-0), Oak Grove (1-0), Grafton (4-1), Larimore (2-0), Parshall (1-1), St. John (4-0), Ellendale (2-1).

Region 2 is probably getting more love than it should. Oak Grove isn't ranked, by the way. I agree with you on Central Cass, but remember, others receiving votes can mean as few as one person voted for them. That's why you want more opinions in a poll; it helps cancel things out a bit. It's still early, and as is the case every year, it takes awhile for the poll to work itself out.

Oak Grove is ranked. They are receiving votes. They are just outside the top ten. If a team is receiving votes, they are being ranked.

I'm not so sure if more people voting in the poll would be a good thing. With more people voting you would more likely get more teams getting votes that would have no business getting votes.

The team that I think is most conspicuously absent from the top 10 is Milnor-North Sargent. If that isn't a top ten team (at a minimum), I don't know what is. They have an elite Class B PG, athleticism, perimeter shooting and size. I don't think they are playing great D yet but if they get that figured out, they could be a strong challenge to Northern Cass in Region 1. Region 1 feels like the deepest region in the state.

I do think that the voters are starting to sort things out. For example, North Star wasn't even getting votes last week and now they are #7, which I absolutely agree with as I thought it was an oversight that they weren't in the top 10.

All this said, I agree with the comments that while fun to discuss, in the overall scheme of things, polls are meaningless. An example, the Class 11A State Champs in football never cracked the top 10 this past season.

All this said, I agree with the comments that while fun to discuss, in the overall scheme of things, polls are meaningless. An example, the Class 11A State Champs in football never cracked the top 10 this past season.

they're meaningless in FB. Since they started seeded the state tournament I think they have some meaning in BB.

Flip wrote:

All this said, I agree with the comments that while fun to discuss, in the overall scheme of things, polls are meaningless. An example, the Class 11A State Champs in football never cracked the top 10 this past season.

they're meaningless in FB. Since they started seeded the state tournament I think they have some meaning in BB.

I hope seeds at state are not driven by these polls in any way.

EHS1998 wrote:

Flip wrote:

All this said, I agree with the comments that while fun to discuss, in the overall scheme of things, polls are meaningless. An example, the Class 11A State Champs in football never cracked the top 10 this past season.

they're meaningless in FB. Since they started seeded the state tournament I think they have some meaning in BB.

I hope seeds at state are not driven by these polls in any way.

I don't see how the seedings at state aren't directly affected by the polls

packers21 wrote:

EHS1998 wrote:

Flip wrote:

All this said, I agree with the comments that while fun to discuss, in the overall scheme of things, polls are meaningless. An example, the Class 11A State Champs in football never cracked the top 10 this past season.

they're meaningless in FB. Since they started seeded the state tournament I think they have some meaning in BB.

I hope seeds at state are not driven by these polls in any way.

I don't see how the seedings at state aren't directly affected by the polls

Polls will have some affect...use of several sites now available also have an affect...but personal opinions tend to hold more weight when the coaches vote

scc wrote:

EHS1998 wrote:The team I think is most conspicuously absent from the top 10, in my opinion, is Milnor-North Sargent. If that isn't a top ten team (at a minimum), I don't know what is. The have an elite Class B PG, athleticism, perimeter shooting and size. I don't think they are playing great D yet but if they get that figured out, they could be a strong challenge to Northern Cass in Region 1. Region 1 feels like the deepest region in the state. All this said, I agree with the comments that polls are meaningless.

You may be right. It may be hard to gauge right now because the tougher part of their schedule is still a ways down the road. It's still early, so we'll see how things shake out as the season progresses.

I'm with both of you on this, I think it's still too early to tell because they (M-NS) have yet to play the top tier teams in Region 1. And I also think athletically they may be one of the deepest in the region. Led by the best PG in Class B Hanson. They have height and length with good athleticism and I don't think they have had to play a ton of defense yet to get where their at because they are averaging in the upper 70's in scoring. Will be interesting later in the season as I think Northern Cass, Hankinson, Milnor-North Sargent, Oak Grove, and Kindred all have a shot at the region title and any one of them would represent the region well at state.

I think its safe to say also, that after FWM, come March, there will be some wide openness to the entire field of Class B

Its early (and a small sample size of games) but here is my ranking formula's Top 20 (similar to SD's power points system)

*Thru 12/27/16*
**Numbers change daily when games are played**
***Includes Out-of-State Games...SD/MN opp. updated daily...MT and others on Wed & Sun***

1. Northern Cass (3-0) 49.67
2. St. John (4-0) 48.50
3. Dickinson Trinity (4-0) 47.00
4. L&C-Berthold (3-0) 47.00
5. Four Winds-Minnewaukan (2-0) 47.00
6. Oak Grove (1-0) 46.00
7. Milnor-North Sargent (4-0) 45.50
8. Linton-HMB (2-0) 45.50
9. Hillsboro-Central Valley (3-0) 45.00
10. Mott-Regent (4-1) 44.80
11. Carrington (4-0) 44.75
12. Stanley (3-1) 44.25
13. Rugby (4-1) 44.20
14. Thompson (3-0) 44.00
15. Flasher (2-0) 44.00
16. Beulah (2-0) 44.00
17. Garrison (3-0) 44.00
18. Kenmare (4-1) 43.60
19. Powers Lake (4-1) 43.60
20. Velva/Sawyer (3-1) 43.50
20. Heart River (3-1) 43.50