Randy Cranston's Plans

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Randy Cranston's Plans

Postby heimer » Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:05 am

These plans were emailed by Randy Cranston of Watford City to various ADs and officials around the state.

The highlights:

First, decide if we can screw Valley City. If we can, 330 can be the cutoff of A to B (what I would label AA and A). If we shouldn't, 425 can be the cutoff, and we can include Wahpeton. This shouldn't even be a consideration. If your next class will include everyone 150 and up, Valley City isn't going to kill them. But, you know, Valley City is fun to screw, so why not try it again.

Second, where should the cutoff be for B to C (what I would label A to B)? One set of plans call it 150, the other 170. This subject is actually worth the debate. 150 moves Rugby, Des Lacs, Velva-Sawyer, Hazen, Dunseith, Langdon, Park River-F-L, and Northern Cass to the middle, 170 would leave them bottom. More importantly, I'm just guessing on this, this line is a line that would get "flirted with" more often than the 330/425 scenario.

If we're going 3, 425 should be the first line, without question. The next line? Interesting.

Plan A
North Dakota 3 Class System

Classification Enrollment Boundaries
Class A = 425+

Class B = 150 – 424

Class C = 149 -1

Basic Rules for Reclassification
*Schools may opt up to a higher classification despite enrollment

*When a school moves into a classification, they will remain there for the next two years

*NDHSAA makes recommendations for change based on school’s average enrollment over past two years

*All parochial schools will be Class B

Class A Enrollment: 425+

East Region (8 teams)
Fargo Davies - 1210
Fargo North - 981
Fargo South - 1046
Grand Forks Central - 943
Grand Forks Red River - 1141
West Fargo - 1478
West Fargo Sheyenne – 1008
Devils Lake - 477

West Region (9 teams)
Bismarck Century - 1336
Bismarck High - 1315
Bismarck Legacy - 807
Dickinson - 925
Jamestown - 664
Mandan - 1026
Minot - 1943
Williston – 1083
Turtle Mountain - 495


17 Teams
East Region tournament (top four teams go to state tourney)
West Region tournament (top four teams go to state tourney)

Class B – 33 total teams
Enrollment 150-424

West Region (18 teams) OR May Have To Split This Into 4 Districts & then the 2 Regions
New Town – 212 4 Dist. Tournaments (NW Dist. Vs SW Dist., NE Dist. Vs. SE Dist)
Stanley – 192 - top 4 teams advance to regional tournament
Watford City – 320 2 Regional Tournaments (West Region, East Region)
Rugby – 167 - top 4 teams advance to state tournament
Dunseith - 156
*Bishop Ryan - 118
Velva/Sawyer - 151
Des Lacs Burlington - 163
Bottineau - 190
*Our Redeemers - 50
*Williston Trinity Christian - 50
*Dickinson Trinity - 165
*Shiloh Christian - 120
Heart River - 165
*Bismarck St. Mary’s - 310
Standing Rock - 189
Hazen - 163
Beulah - 228

East Region (15 teams)
Langdon Area/Munich - 153
Harvey/Wells Co. - 177
Carrington - 171
Four Winds/Minnewaukan - 220
Hillsboro/Central Valley - 188
Northern Cass - 168
Wahpeton - 358
Valley City - 334
Grafton - 266
*Oak Grove - 180
Central Cass - 215
Kindred – 181
*Fargo Shanley - 400
Park River F-L - 165
Lisbon - 200

33 Teams
East Super Region tournament (top four teams go to state tourney)
West Super Region tournament (top four teams go to state tourney)

ND Class C
Enrollment 149-1

Post Season: 8 District Tournaments (top four from each district advance to regional tournament)
4 Regional Tournaments (8 teams & top two advance to State C Tournament)
*Regional Tournament is double elimination tournament with possible challenge
*Thursday, Friday, Saturday morning, Saturday night
*Third place may challenge 2nd on Monday IF have NOT played in region tourney

Region 4 (21 teams)
District 8C (10 teams)
Trenton - 59
Ray - 80
Tioga - 127
Divide Co. - 79
Alexander - 42
Powers Lake - 48
White Shield - 44
Burke Co. - 63
Parshall - 86
Lewis & Clark North Shore - 34

District 7C (11 teams)
Drake/Anamoose - 63
Kenmare - 81
Mohall-Lansford-Sherwood - 91
Westhope/Newburg - 59
Glenburn - 94
Nedrose - 75
Sawyer - 40
TGU - 98
Berthold - 93
South Prairie - 67
Surrey - 109

Region 3 (20 teams)

District 4C (9 teams)
Hettinger/Scranton - 121
Mott/Regent - 75
Beach - 122
Richardton/Taylor - 82
Bowman Co. - 132
New England - 60
Killdeer - 142
Glen Ullin/Hebron - 101
Mandaree – 42

District 3C (11 teams)
Garrison – 116
Grant Co.- 58
Max – 52
New Salem/Almont - 101
Underwood - 68
Center/Stanton - 63
Turtle Lake/Mercer/McClusky - 90
Wilton/Wing - 110
Washburn - 84
Flasher - 90
Solen - 42

Region 2 (19 teams)
District 6C (9 teams)
Benson Co. - 93
Dakota Prairie - 68
Lakota/Edmore - 78
New Rockford/Sheyenne - 102
Warwick - 59
North Star - 87
Rolette/Wolford - 69
Rolla - 62
St. John - 122

District 5C (10 teams)
Drayton/Valley-Edinburg - 116
Griggs Co. Central - 63
Hatton/Northwood - 103
Midway/Minto - 123
North Border - 78
Larimore – 145
May-Port-CG – 142
Thompson – 131
Cavalier – 116
Finley Sharon Hope Page - 85

Region 1 (20 teams)
District 2C (12 teams)
Barnes Co. North - 84
Edgeley/Kulm/Montpelier - 127
Ellendale - 99
Oakes - 132
LaMoure-Litchville/Marion - 110
Midkota - 50
Kidder Co. - 112
Medina-Pingree/Buchanon - 96
Napoleon/G-S - 111
South Border - 97
Strasburg/Zeeland - 55
Linton HMB - 120

District 1C (8 teams)
Enderlin - 96
Fairmount-Campbell-Tintah - 50
Hankinson - 82
Maple Valley - 79
Richland - 92
Sargent Central - 63
Wyndmere/Lidgerwood – 121
Milnor/North Sargent - 135


Plan B
North Dakota 3 Class System

Classification Enrollment Boundaries
Class A = 425+

Class B = 170 – 424

Class C = 169 -1

Basic Rules for Reclassification
*Schools may opt up to a higher classification despite enrollment

*When a school moves into a classification, they will remain there for the next two years

*NDHSA makes recommendations for change based on school’s average enrollment over past two years

*All parochial schools will be Class B

Class A Enrollment: 425+

East Region (8 teams)
Fargo Davies - 1210
Fargo North - 981
Fargo South - 1046
Grand Forks Central - 943
Grand Forks Red River - 1141
West Fargo - 1478
West Fargo Sheyenne – 1008
Devils Lake - 477

West Region (9 teams)
Bismarck Century - 1336
Bismarck High - 1315
Bismarck Legacy - 807
Dickinson - 925
Jamestown - 664
Mandan - 1026
Minot - 1943
Williston – 1083
Turtle Mountain - 495


17 Teams
East Region tournament (top four teams go to state tourney)
West Region tournament (top four teams go to state tourney)

Class B (24 total teams)
Enrollment 170-424

West Region – (12 teams)
New Town - 212
Stanley - 192
Watford City - 320
*Bishop Ryan - 118
Bottineau - 190
*Our Redeemers - 50
*Williston Trinity Christian - 50
*Dickinson Trinity - 165
*Shiloh Christian - 120
*Bismarck St. Mary’s - 310
Beulah – 228
Standing Rock - 189

East Region - (12 teams)
Harvey/Wells Co. - 177
Carrington - 171
Four Winds/Minnewaukan - 220
Hillsboro/Central Valley - 188
Wahpeton - 358
Valley City - 334
Grafton - 266
*Oak Grove - 180
Central Cass - 215
Kindred – 181
*Fargo Shanley - 400
Lisbon - 200

24 Teams
East Region tournament (top four teams go to state tourney)
West Region tournament (top four teams go to state tourney)

ND Class C
Enrollment 169-1
(87 teams)
Post Season: 8 District Tournaments (top four from each district advance to regional tournament)
4 Regional Tournaments (8 teams & top two advance to State C Tournament)
*Regional Tournament is double elimination tournament with possible challenge
*Thursday, Friday, Saturday morning, Saturday night
*Third place may challenge 2nd on Monday IF have NOT played in region tourney

Region 4 (24 teams)
District 8C (11 teams)
Trenton - 59
Ray - 80
Tioga - 127
Divide Co. - 79
Alexander - 42
Powers Lake - 48
White Shield - 44
Burke Co. - 63
Parshall - 86
Lewis & Clark North Shore – 34
Mandaree – 42

District 7C (13 teams)
Drake/Anamoose - 63
Kenmare - 81
Mohall-Lansford-Sherwood - 91
Westhope/Newburg - 59
Glenburn - 94
Nedrose - 75
TGU - 98
Berthold - 93
South Prairie - 67
Surry – 109
Rugby – 165
Des Lacs/Burlington – 163
Velva/Sawyer - 151

Region 3 (20 teams)

District 4C (9 teams)
Hettinger/Scranton - 121
Mott/Regent - 75
Beach - 122
Richardton/Taylor - 82
Bowman Co. - 132
New England - 60
Killdeer - 142
Glen Ullin/Hebron – 101
Hazen - 163

District 3C (11 teams)
Garrison – 116
Grant Co.- 58
Max – 52
New Salem/Almont - 101
Underwood - 68
Center/Stanton - 63
Turtle Lake/Mercer/McClusky - 90
Wilton/Wing - 110
Washburn - 84
Flasher - 90
Solen - 42

Region 2 (22 teams)
District 6C (11 teams)
Benson Co. - 93
Dakota Prairie - 68
Lakota/Edmore - 78
New Rockford/Sheyenne - 102
Warwick - 59
North Star - 87
Rolette/Wolford - 69
Rolla - 62
St. John – 122
Dunseith – 156
Langdon Area - 153

District 5C (11 teams)
Drayton/Valley-Edinburg - 116
Griggs Co. Central - 63
Hatton/Northwood - 103
Midway/Minto - 123
North Border - 78
Larimore – 145
May-Port-CG – 142
Thompson – 131
Cavalier – 116
Finley Sharon Hope Page – 85
Park River/F-L - 165

Region 1 (21 teams)
District 2C (12 teams)
Barnes Co. North - 84
Edgeley/Kulm/Montpelier - 127
Ellendale - 99
Oakes - 132
LaMoure-Litchville/Marion - 110
Midkota - 50
Kidder Co. - 112
Medina-Pingree/Buchanon - 96
Napoleon/G-S - 111
South Border - 97
Strasburg/Zeeland - 55
Linton HMB - 120


District 1C (9 teams)
Enderlin - 96
Fairmount-Campbell-Tintah - 50
Hankinson - 82
Maple Valley - 79
Richland - 92
Sargent Central - 63
Wyndmere/Lidgerwood – 121
Milnor/North Sargent – 135
Northern Cass - 168


Plan C
North Dakota 3 Class System

Classification Enrollment Boundaries
Class A = 330+

Class B = 150 – 329

Class C = 149 -1

Basic Rules for Reclassification
*Schools may opt up to a higher classification despite enrollment

*When a school moves into a classification, they will remain there for the next two years

*Schools whose enrollment changes significantly in a 2 year period (i.e. 25%) will be placed into proper class by the NDHSA Executive Board

*NDHSA makes recommendations for change based on school’s average enrollment over past two years

*All parochial schools (except Bismarck St. Mary’s & Fargo Shanley) will be Class B

Class A Enrollment: 330+
(21 teams)

East Region (11 teams)
Fargo Davies - 1210
Fargo North - 981
Fargo South - 1046
Grand Forks Central - 943
Grand Forks Red River - 1141
West Fargo - 1478
West Fargo Sheyenne – 1008
Devils Lake – 477
*Fargo Shanley – 400
Wahpeton - 358
Valley City - 334

West Region (10 teams)
Bismarck Century - 1336
Bismarck High - 1315
Bismarck Legacy - 807
Dickinson - 925
Jamestown - 664
Mandan - 1026
Minot - 1943
Williston – 1083
Turtle Mountain – 495
*Bismarck St. Mary’s - 310



21 Teams
East Region tournament (top four teams go to state tourney)
West Region tournament (top four teams go to state tourney)

Class B – 29 total teams
Enrollment 150-424

West Region (16 teams)
New Town - 212
Stanley - 192
Watford City - 320
Dunseith - 156
*Bishop Ryan - 118
Velva/Sawyer - 151
Des Lacs Burlington - 163
Bottineau - 190
*Our Redeemers - 50
*Williston Trinity Christian - 50
*Dickinson Trinity - 165
*Shiloh Christian - 120
Heart River - 165
Standing Rock - 189
Hazen - 163
Beulah - 228

East Region (13 teams)
Langdon Area/Munich - 153
Harvey/Wells Co. - 177
Carrington - 171
Four Winds/Minnewaukan - 220
Hillsboro/Central Valley - 188
Northern Cass - 168
Grafton - 266
*Oak Grove - 180
Central Cass - 215
Kindred – 181
Park River F-L - 165
Lisbon - 200
Rugby - 167

29 Teams
East Super Region tournament (top four teams go to state tourney)
West Super Region tournament (top four teams go to state tourney)

ND Class C
Enrollment 149-1
80 teams

Post Season: 8 District Tournaments (top four from each district advance to regional tournament)
4 Regional Tournaments (8 teams & top two advance to State C Tournament)
*Regional Tournament is double elimination tournament with possible challenge
*Thursday, Friday, Saturday morning, Saturday night
*Third place may challenge 2nd on Monday IF have NOT played in region tourney

Region 4 (22 teams)
District 8C (11 teams)
Trenton - 59
Ray - 80
Tioga - 127
Divide Co. - 79
Alexander - 42
Powers Lake - 48
White Shield - 44
Burke Co. - 63
Parshall - 86
Lewis & Clark North Shore – 34
Mandaree – 42

District 7C (11 teams)
Drake/Anamoose - 63
Kenmare - 81
Mohall-Lansford-Sherwood - 91
Westhope/Newburg - 59
Glenburn - 94
Nedrose - 75
Sawyer - 40
TGU - 98
Berthold - 93
South Prairie - 67
Surry - 109

Region 3 (19 teams)

District 4C (8 teams)
Hettinger/Scranton - 121
Mott/Regent - 75
Beach - 122
Richardton/Taylor - 82
Bowman Co. - 132
New England - 60
Killdeer - 142
Glen Ullin/Hebron - 101

District 3C (11 teams)
Garrison – 116
Grant Co.- 58
Max – 52
New Salem/Almont - 101
Underwood - 68
Center/Stanton - 63
Turtle Lake/Mercer/McClusky - 90
Wilton/Wing - 110
Washburn - 84
Flasher - 90
Solen - 42

Region 2 (19 teams)
District 6C (9 teams)
Benson Co. - 93
Dakota Prairie - 68
Lakota/Edmore - 78
New Rockford/Sheyenne - 102
Warwick - 59
North Star - 87
Rolette/Wolford - 69
Rolla - 62
St. John - 122

District 5C (10 teams)
Drayton/Valley-Edinburg - 116
Griggs Co. Central - 63
Hatton/Northwood - 103
Midway/Minto - 123
North Border - 78
Larimore – 145
May-Port-CG – 142
Thompson – 131
Cavalier – 116
Finley Sharon Hope Page - 85

Region 1 (20 teams)
District 2C (12 teams)
Barnes Co. North - 84
Edgeley/Kulm/Montpelier - 127
Ellendale - 99
Oakes - 132
LaMoure-Litchville/Marion - 110
Midkota - 50
Kidder Co. - 112
Medina-Pingree/Buchanon - 96
Napoleon/G-S - 111
South Border - 97
Strasburg/Zeeland - 55
Linton HMB - 120

District 1C (8 teams)
Enderlin - 96
Fairmount-Campbell-Tintah - 50
Hankinson - 82
Maple Valley - 79
Richland - 92
Sargent Central - 63
Wyndmere/Lidgerwood – 121
Milnor/North Sargent - 135


Plan D
North Dakota 3 Class System

Classification Enrollment Boundaries
Class A = 330+

Class B = 170 – 424

Class C = 169 -1

Basic Rules for Reclassification
*Schools may opt up to a higher classification despite enrollment

*When a school moves into a classification, they will remain there for the next two years

*Schools whose enrollment changes significantly in a 2 year period (i.e. 25%) will be placed into proper class by the NDHSA Executive Board

*NDHSA makes recommendations for change based on school’s average enrollment over past two years

*All parochial schools (exception of Bismarck St. Mary’s & Fargo Shanley) will be Class B


Class A Enrollment: 330+
(21 teams)

East Region (11 teams)
Fargo Davies - 1210
Fargo North - 981
Fargo South - 1046
Grand Forks Central - 943
Grand Forks Red River - 1141
West Fargo - 1478
West Fargo Sheyenne – 1008
Devils Lake – 477
*Fargo Shanley – 400
Wahpeton - 358
Valley City - 334

West Region (10 teams)
Bismarck Century - 1336
Bismarck High - 1315
Bismarck Legacy - 807
Dickinson - 925
Jamestown - 664
Mandan - 1026
Minot - 1943
Williston – 1083
Turtle Mountain – 495
*Bismarck St. Mary’s - 310

21 Teams
East Region tournament (top four teams go to state tourney)
West Region tournament (top four teams go to state tourney)

Class B (20 total teams)
Enrollment 170-424

West Region – (11 teams)
New Town - 212
Stanley - 192
Watford City - 320
*Bishop Ryan - 118
Bottineau - 190
*Our Redeemers - 50
*Williston Trinity Christian - 50
*Dickinson Trinity - 165
*Shiloh Christian - 120
Beulah – 228
Standing Rock - 189

East Region - (9 teams)
Harvey/Wells Co. - 177
Carrington - 171
Four Winds/Minnewaukan - 220
Hillsboro/Central Valley - 188
Grafton - 266
*Oak Grove - 180
Central Cass - 215
Kindred – 181
Lisbon - 200

20 Teams
East Region tournament (top four teams go to state tourney)
West Region tournament (top four teams go to state tourney)

ND Class C
Enrollment 169-1
(87 teams)
Post Season: 8 District Tournaments (top four from each district advance to regional tournament)
4 Regional Tournaments (8 teams & top two advance to State C Tournament)
*Regional Tournament is double elimination tournament with possible challenge
*Thursday, Friday, Saturday morning, Saturday night
*Third place may challenge 2nd on Monday IF have NOT played in region tourney

Region 4 (24 teams)
District 8C (11 teams)
Trenton - 59
Ray - 80
Tioga - 127
Divide Co. - 79
Alexander - 42
Powers Lake - 48
White Shield - 44
Burke Co. - 63
Parshall - 86
Lewis & Clark North Shore – 34
Mandaree – 42

District 7C (13 teams)
Drake/Anamoose - 63
Kenmare - 81
Mohall-Lansford-Sherwood - 91
Westhope/Newburg - 59
Glenburn - 94
Nedrose - 75
TGU - 98
Berthold - 93
South Prairie - 67
Surry – 109
Rugby – 165
Des Lacs/Burlington – 163
Velva/Sawyer - 151


Region 3 (20 teams)

District 4C (9 teams)
Hettinger/Scranton - 121
Mott/Regent - 75
Beach - 122
Richardton/Taylor - 82
Bowman Co. - 132
New England - 60
Killdeer - 142
Glen Ullin/Hebron – 101
Hazen - 163

District 3C (11 teams)
Garrison – 116
Grant Co.- 58
Max – 52
New Salem/Almont - 101
Underwood - 68
Center/Stanton - 63
Turtle Lake/Mercer/McClusky - 90
Wilton/Wing - 110
Washburn - 84
Flasher - 90
Solen - 42

Region 2 (22 teams)
District 6C (11 teams)
Benson Co. - 93
Dakota Prairie - 68
Lakota/Edmore - 78
New Rockford/Sheyenne - 102
Warwick - 59
North Star - 87
Rolette/Wolford - 69
Rolla - 62
St. John – 122
Dunseith – 156
Langdon Area - 153

District 5C (11 teams)
Drayton/Valley-Edinburg - 116
Griggs Co. Central - 63
Hatton/Northwood - 103
Midway/Minto - 123
North Border - 78
Larimore – 145
May-Port-CG – 142
Thompson – 131
Cavalier – 116
Finley Sharon Hope Page – 85
Park River/F-L - 165

Region 1 (21 teams)
District 2C (12 teams)
Barnes Co. North - 84
Edgeley/Kulm/Montpelier - 127
Ellendale - 99
Oakes - 132
LaMoure-Litchville/Marion - 110
Midkota - 50
Kidder Co. - 112
Medina-Pingree/Buchanon - 96
Napoleon/G-S - 111
South Border - 97
Strasburg/Zeeland - 55
Linton HMB - 120


District 1C (9 teams)
Enderlin - 96
Fairmount-Campbell-Tintah - 50
Hankinson - 82
Maple Valley - 79
Richland - 92
Sargent Central - 63
Wyndmere/Lidgerwood – 121
Milnor/North Sargent – 135
Northern Cass - 168
God is bigger than football.
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Re: Randy Cranston's Plans

Postby vikingman » Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:30 am

If this system had been in place earlier, North Star would have very probably won 5 or more straight titles.
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Re: Randy Cranston's Plans

Postby ndlionsfan » Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:55 am

There are some things I like about the tournament formats, but I'm in agreement with you heimer. What's the point of going to a 425 cutoff when that was argued so much against a few years back? Why the 330 and not the 325 its been for years? I think the 150 and 170 cutoffs are going to cause issues with schools moving back and forth all the time, especially if they redo the classes every 2 years as proposed.

I don't really like it, but if there ever is a year for it to pass it would be now. I think it would have a much better chance going through if there were just a set number of schools per division in the top two. Also, I really don't agree with the two smaller private schools being shoved to the middle class. I don't think they will have much of a say, though.
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Re: Randy Cranston's Plans

Postby leroybla » Wed Mar 23, 2016 1:06 pm

"I think the 150 and 170 cutoffs are going to cause issues with schools moving back and forth all the time, especially if they redo the classes every 2 years as proposed."

I agree. Schools near the 170 enrollment number that accept open enrollees can easily manipulate their numbers if they wish.
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Re: Randy Cranston's Plans

Postby Flip » Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:58 pm

Lowest class:

when they say double elimination are they talking true double elimination? If so I think you need more than 4 days to get that tournament done.

There could be some weird situations with the challenge game too. Where maybe you lose the region championship game to the keep the 3rd place team out of the state tournament. I don't think this would happen often, but say you're the 2nd best team in the state and beat the best team in the state in the region semi-finals. Don't tell you don't think about losing the region championship to keep the best team out.

Would the state be seeded? I'd hate to play a team maybe in your own district for the 4th time in the first round of state.
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Re: Randy Cranston's Plans

Postby Sniper » Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:46 am

Personally, I do not like the region set ups for the class C. I would go 8 smaller regions instead of 4. Winner of each region advances to state. I do not like the double elimination tournament because there is a chance that a team enters the state tournament after a loss. I think you should have to win to get in.

Also I agree that the classes should be labeled AA, A, and B.
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Re: Randy Cranston's Plans

Postby B-oldtimer » Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:56 am

I think it should not be based on fix enrollment number if your in one class or another I believe it should be like football so many schools in say double A, So many school in A and remainder in B based on enrollment. Also the Parochial schools to be put in the Middle class unless they want to play up a class. Also if schools want to play up class they should be allowed to but just adding them to mandatory number of schools in that class. I also don't think they need to adjust enrollments like they do for football as basketball is different sport requiring smaller nucleus of players to be competitive than football. I also agree that smallest class should remain being called b with other two being call A and double AA. Another aspect would be that the two lower classes continue to play each other if possible and it should be encouraged to do so I don't know how to do this but there has to be some idea's out there to do this. Some of the problems I for see is schools that are on cut line where they are cooping now may want to drop the coop leaving schools without a place for there kids. If this happens the Activities association will need to look at each one of these situations give students widest possible latitude in finding place to play if they so choose. Hopefully this doesn't occur. Its too bad it taken school administrators and activity people to come to this realization something had to be done. This would have been much easier 10 years ago when we had more schools and less cooping done but it seems nobody wanted to see where we were heading on enrollments how divide was growing ever more each year. I know this effected my children and there participation in the sport and how they feel about basketball. I also believe it effected more than we realize and that these kids are going to effect future of highschool sports when they are parents. At least for my kids basketball is not the king of sports it was for my generation and I wonder how many more this is true of. The major difference is I see from when I was in school the smallest schools felt they had equal chance if they put a team together they could maybe go to state or regional final with the larger schools in their districts and regions. Today kids from smaller schools just feel they have very little chance if any to compete with these larger schools because of numbers, resources like traveling teams and off season coaching, and being able to play together even in off season compared to these larger schools. Enough of this but I hope they can put together good plan that is good for the kids.
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Re: Randy Cranston's Plans

Postby Flip » Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:18 pm

B-oldtimer wrote: Another aspect would be that the two lower classes continue to play each other if possible and it should be encouraged to do so I don't know how to do this but there has to be some idea's out there to do this.

This will happen naturally. Grafton, HCV, OG, etc. won't be able to find 21 games vs strictly middle class teams. Same with the lowest class.
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Re: Randy Cranston's Plans

Postby scruffy » Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:15 pm

They can not make smaller private schools play up a division and allow larger reservation schools to play down a division. It is called discrimination and would never hold up. If there is any reason to believe that they want to "prevent" certain schools from advancing to state or if they favor any larger school to prevent them from moving up to "A" the plan will fail. If it would pass it certainly will be shot down in court.
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Re: Randy Cranston's Plans

Postby Kwoods » Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:02 am

scruffy wrote:They can not make smaller private schools play up a division and allow larger reservation schools to play down a division. It is called discrimination and would never hold up. If there is any reason to believe that they want to "prevent" certain schools from advancing to state or if they favor any larger school to prevent them from moving up to "A" the plan will fail. If it would pass it certainly will be shot down in court.



What larger reservations schools are playing down a division? (Dunseith???)There are schools that are not reservation schools with higher enrollments than the private schools because these public schools can't reject kids from enrolling. Private schools can take or turn away whoever they like there is where part of their advantage is. They will never go above the Class B cut off because of the control they have.
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Re: Randy Cranston's Plans

Postby packers21 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:24 am

Kwoods wrote:
scruffy wrote:They can not make smaller private schools play up a division and allow larger reservation schools to play down a division. It is called discrimination and would never hold up. If there is any reason to believe that they want to "prevent" certain schools from advancing to state or if they favor any larger school to prevent them from moving up to "A" the plan will fail. If it would pass it certainly will be shot down in court.



What larger reservations schools are playing down a division? (Dunseith???)There are schools that are not reservation schools with higher enrollments than the private schools because these public schools can't reject kids from enrolling. Private schools can take or turn away whoever they like there is where part of their advantage is. They will never go above the Class B cut off because of the control they have.


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Re: Randy Cranston's Plans

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:32 am

Kwoods wrote:
scruffy wrote:They can not make smaller private schools play up a division and allow larger reservation schools to play down a division. It is called discrimination and would never hold up. If there is any reason to believe that they want to "prevent" certain schools from advancing to state or if they favor any larger school to prevent them from moving up to "A" the plan will fail. If it would pass it certainly will be shot down in court.



What larger reservations schools are playing down a division? (Dunseith???)There are schools that are not reservation schools with higher enrollments than the private schools because these public schools can't reject kids from enrolling. Private schools can take or turn away whoever they like there is where part of their advantage is. They will never go above the Class B cut off because of the control they have.


Private schools need $$ to function...$$ means tuition. Why would a school turn away families who are willing to pay to educate their child(ren). Maybe some do turn away students...but here's the thing people: 325 is the cutoff...NONE of the private schools are even CLOSE to that number so saying they turn kids down to stay under enrollment is a 'croc'. If a family is willing to pay the tuition for their child(ren) the school WILL NOT reject the child (Behavioral issues after enrollment may change my previous statement).

I can tell you, I know for a fact that at least ONE private school is NOT turning away students that are willing to pay for their schooling...and in their elementary school they are near capacity and yet still growing...plus their HS enrollment includes many 1-year international students who want an American education (Students who affect the enrollment numbers even though they cannot participate in HS Varsity sports).
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Re: Randy Cranston's Plans

Postby Bigbrew22 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:34 am

scruffy wrote:They can not make smaller private schools play up a division and allow larger reservation schools to play down a division. It is called discrimination and would never hold up. If there is any reason to believe that they want to "prevent" certain schools from advancing to state or if they favor any larger school to prevent them from moving up to "A" the plan will fail. If it would pass it certainly will be shot down in court.



Private and reservation doesn't mean the same thing scruffy reservation schools are just public schools that go by enrollment. If your intent is to complain about the adjusted enrollment deal then why just label reservation schools. We could do away with the adjusted enrollment. Does anyone know if that would push any "reservation" schools up a class and if not then wth are u even talking about. Anyway if it were to go to a lawsuit like scruffy suggested then my suggestion is for public schools to stop scheduling games with private schools!
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Re: Randy Cranston's Plans

Postby Kwoods » Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:48 am

Run4Fun2009 wrote:
Kwoods wrote:
scruffy wrote:They can not make smaller private schools play up a division and allow larger reservation schools to play down a division. It is called discrimination and would never hold up. If there is any reason to believe that they want to "prevent" certain schools from advancing to state or if they favor any larger school to prevent them from moving up to "A" the plan will fail. If it would pass it certainly will be shot down in court.



What larger reservations schools are playing down a division? (Dunseith???)There are schools that are not reservation schools with higher enrollments than the private schools because these public schools can't reject kids from enrolling. Private schools can take or turn away whoever they like there is where part of their advantage is. They will never go above the Class B cut off because of the control they have.


Private schools need $$ to function...$$ means tuition. Why would a school turn away families who are willing to pay to educate their child(ren). Maybe some do turn away students...but here's the thing people: 325 is the cutoff...NONE of the private schools are even CLOSE to that number so saying they turn kids down to stay under enrollment is a 'croc'. If a family is willing to pay the tuition for their child(ren) the school WILL NOT reject the child (Behavioral issues after enrollment may change my previous statement).

I can tell you, I know for a fact that at least ONE private school is NOT turning away students that are willing to pay for their schooling...and in their elementary school they are near capacity and yet still growing...plus their HS enrollment includes many 1-year international students who want an American education (Students who affect the enrollment numbers even though they cannot participate in HS Varsity sports).




Are you talking about elementary kids affecting enrollment numbers or international students? Why can't international students participate in high school sports?
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Re: Randy Cranston's Plans

Postby Bigbrew22 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:56 am

Run4Fun2009 wrote:
Kwoods wrote:
scruffy wrote:They can not make smaller private schools play up a division and allow larger reservation schools to play down a division. It is called discrimination and would never hold up. If there is any reason to believe that they want to "prevent" certain schools from advancing to state or if they favor any larger school to prevent them from moving up to "A" the plan will fail. If it would pass it certainly will be shot down in court.



What larger reservations schools are playing down a division? (Dunseith???)There are schools that are not reservation schools with higher enrollments than the private schools because these public schools can't reject kids from enrolling. Private schools can take or turn away whoever they like there is where part of their advantage is. They will never go above the Class B cut off because of the control they have.


Private schools need $$ to function...$$ means tuition. Why would a school turn away families who are willing to pay to educate their child(ren). Maybe some do turn away students...but here's the thing people: 325 is the cutoff...NONE of the private schools are even CLOSE to that number so saying they turn kids down to stay under enrollment is a 'croc'. If a family is willing to pay the tuition for their child(ren) the school WILL NOT reject the child (Behavioral issues after enrollment may change my previous statement).

I can tell you, I know for a fact that at least ONE private school is NOT turning away students that are willing to pay for their schooling...and in their elementary school they are near capacity and yet still growing...plus their HS enrollment includes many 1-year international students who want an American education (Students who affect the enrollment numbers even though they cannot participate in HS Varsity sports).



Well I just ran some numbers on one private school and to send my 5 kids there from k-12 would cost half a million dollars in just tuitions. So that's pretty much out of the question for most people with even 1 or 2 kids so to answer your questions about restricting enrollment is that the cost is what restricts enrollment.
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Re: Randy Cranston's Plans

Postby Kwoods » Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:01 am

I know a few athletes that moved from schools in our area whose tuition is paid for so they can attend. All were great basketball players that were stand outs at the private school they attended.
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Re: Randy Cranston's Plans

Postby Bigbrew22 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:09 am

Kwoods wrote:I know a few athletes that moved from schools in our area whose tuition is paid for so they can attend. All were great basketball players that were stand outs at the private school they attended.


Tuitions are high to keep most out and the ones they want in can get reduced or paid tuitions. And with the high tuitions you don't need high enrollment to to make a lot of money so it is by design and if it wasn't you would hear and see advertising for that school just like any business....if it were in fact strictly business
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Re: Randy Cranston's Plans

Postby Edger » Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:19 am

Kwoods wrote:I know a few athletes that moved from schools in our area whose tuition is paid for so they can attend. All were great basketball players that were stand outs at the private school they attended.


This is true. I know some as well. I also know parents of a couple of kids that attend Minot. They told me face to face that both of their boys received letters from Bishop Ryan to attend and play basketball at one time. The parents declined, and don't care enough about the recruiting controversy to get involved. Now I know some of you will say prove it, but I believe them, for the simple reason that. Why would they lie?

I don't think that manipulating the enrollment no's will solve anything because most complaints are about the privates. If the three class system is not going to address ALL the issues then I'd prefer they just leave it alone. This plan is clearly Watford City self-serving.
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Re: Randy Cranston's Plans

Postby Kwoods » Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:03 am

Edger wrote:
Kwoods wrote:I know a few athletes that moved from schools in our area whose tuition is paid for so they can attend. All were great basketball players that were stand outs at the private school they attended.


This is true. I know some as well. I also know parents of a couple of kids that attend Minot. They told me face to face that both of their boys received letters from Bishop Ryan to attend and play basketball at one time. The parents declined, and don't care enough about the recruiting controversy to get involved. Now I know some of you will say prove it, but I believe them, for the simple reason that. Why would they lie?

I don't think that manipulating the enrollment no's will solve anything because most complaints are about the privates. If the three class system is not going to address ALL the issues then I'd prefer they just leave it alone. This plan is clearly Watford City self-serving.



I feel the same way. Watford City doesn't want to go be the little guy in Class A, so they put together this plan. They are already playing all these schools on their regular schedule that will be class B so it won't change their schedule a lot. Then they moved the private schools into that class to try and get some more votes since they know how others feel about the private schools to hopefully ensure some more votes to get their plan to pass.
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Re: Randy Cranston's Plans

Postby Flip » Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:43 am

Run4Fun2009 wrote:Private schools need $$ to function...$$ means tuition. Why would a school turn away families who are willing to pay to educate their child(ren). Maybe some do turn away students...but here's the thing people: 325 is the cutoff...NONE of the private schools are even CLOSE to that number so saying they turn kids down to stay under enrollment is a 'croc'. If a family is willing to pay the tuition for their child(ren) the school WILL NOT reject the child (Behavioral issues after enrollment may change my previous statement).

I can tell you, I know for a fact that at least ONE private school is NOT turning away students that are willing to pay for their schooling...and in their elementary school they are near capacity and yet still growing...plus their HS enrollment includes many 1-year international students who want an American education (Students who affect the enrollment numbers even though they cannot participate in HS Varsity sports).

I'm definitely not pro-private school, but I agree with pretty much everything that was said here. If you're willing to pay tuition the school isn't going to turn you away. To say they control their enrollment to stay class B is one of the most ignorant statements that can be made in this argument.
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Re: Randy Cranston's Plans

Postby ndlionsfan » Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:44 am

In regards to the reservation schools and the reduced enrollment numbers, that is only for the football plan. Has nothing to do for the basketball classes. No reservation school is near 325. And the reduced enrollment is not just for reservation schools, it's based on a percentage of students receiving free/reduced meals. There are quite of few other schools that get their enrollment a reduced for the football plan, too. The next football plan is going on a reduced enrollment for every school based on the percentage free/reduced meals
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Re: Randy Cranston's Plans

Postby Kwoods » Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:58 pm

Flip wrote:
Run4Fun2009 wrote:Private schools need $$ to function...$$ means tuition. Why would a school turn away families who are willing to pay to educate their child(ren). Maybe some do turn away students...but here's the thing people: 325 is the cutoff...NONE of the private schools are even CLOSE to that number so saying they turn kids down to stay under enrollment is a 'croc'. If a family is willing to pay the tuition for their child(ren) the school WILL NOT reject the child (Behavioral issues after enrollment may change my previous statement).

I can tell you, I know for a fact that at least ONE private school is NOT turning away students that are willing to pay for their schooling...and in their elementary school they are near capacity and yet still growing...plus their HS enrollment includes many 1-year international students who want an American education (Students who affect the enrollment numbers even though they cannot participate in HS Varsity sports).

I'm definitely not pro-private school, but I agree with pretty much everything that was said here. If you're willing to pay tuition the school isn't going to turn you away. To say they control their enrollment to stay class B is one of the most ignorant statements that can be made in this argument.




I know of students as I am a teacher that were very intelligent that were not offered the same amount of scholarship money as the athletes were. Please don't call me ignorant when I work in the school system and have heard stories of students from their families (not going to publicly say their names) who are not athletes that have been turned away. Thanks
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Re: Randy Cranston's Plans

Postby Flip » Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:24 pm

Kwoods wrote:I know of students as I am a teacher that were very intelligent that were not offered the same amount of scholarship money as the athletes were.

Not sure where this came from. I said if you were willing to pay they would accept you. I never mentioned scholarships.

Please don't call me ignorant when I work in the school system and have heard stories of students from their families (not going to publicly say their names) who are not athletes that have been turned away.

I never called you ignorant. I said the belief that they control their enrollment to be class b is ignorant and if you believe that why don't these schools have 250+ students?
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Re: Randy Cranston's Plans

Postby d_fense » Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:15 pm

Bigbrew22 wrote...
Well I just ran some numbers on one private school and to send my 5 kids there from k-12 would cost half a million dollars in just tuitions. So that's pretty much out of the question for most people with even 1 or 2 kids so to answer your questions about restricting enrollment is that the cost is what restricts enrollment.[/quote]

I ran numbers on the private schools I know of in North Dakota for tuition for 5 students running 1st to 12th grade. (sorry I see you mentioned k-12) The first 7 I ran wouldn't touch half a million dollars, then I did Trinity Christian in Williston. Here is what I found....

Dickinson Trinity $180,500
Bishop Ryan $200,700
Minot Our Re. $204,000
Bismarck St. M. $212,750
Shanley $215,093
Shiloh Chr. $418,375
Oak Grove $429,580
Wil. Trin. Chr. $1,080,800

Catholic schools seem to have lower tuition. They all have a tuition rate, and offer something called cost of education. This is a higher tuition that reflects the true cost of education that they would appreciate receiving if you are able to pay it. Some schools offer lower tuition for multiple students. Wil. Trin. Christian is way out of the ballpark of most schools. They do offer some scholarships, but I couldn't find any numbers, other than over one million dollars awarded annually.

I also ran numbers for different preschools. Nearly all the Private Christian Schools cost less to send a student to than preschools. Preschool numbers if you adjust for an equal number of years ran from...
$404,000 to $579,600.
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Re: Randy Cranston's Plans

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:04 pm

d_fense wrote:Bigbrew22 wrote...
Well I just ran some numbers on one private school and to send my 5 kids there from k-12 would cost half a million dollars in just tuitions. So that's pretty much out of the question for most people with even 1 or 2 kids so to answer your questions about restricting enrollment is that the cost is what restricts enrollment.

I ran numbers on the private schools I know of in North Dakota for tuition for 5 students running 1st to 12th grade. (sorry I see you mentioned k-12) The first 7 I ran wouldn't touch half a million dollars, then I did Trinity Christian in Williston. Here is what I found....

Dickinson Trinity $180,500
Bishop Ryan $200,700
Minot Our Re. $204,000
Bismarck St. M. $212,750
Shanley $215,093
Shiloh Chr. $418,375
Oak Grove $429,580
Wil. Trin. Chr. $1,080,800

Catholic schools seem to have lower tuition. They all have a tuition rate, and offer something called cost of education. This is a higher tuition that reflects the true cost of education that they would appreciate receiving if you are able to pay it. Some schools offer lower tuition for multiple students. Wil. Trin. Christian is way out of the ballpark of most schools. They do offer some scholarships, but I couldn't find any numbers, other than over one million dollars awarded annually.

I also ran numbers for different preschools. Nearly all the Private Christian Schools cost less to send a student to than preschools. Preschool numbers if you adjust for an equal number of years ran from...
$404,000 to $579,600.


Financial Aid really cuts down some of those numbers though depending on how well you qualify for it. Most of the private schools in ND have students that qualify for this aid. If you want to send your child to a private school there are ways to do that through this process. Oak Grove is $8,740/yr for HS for example (around $7,000/yr for MS & $6,000/yr for Elementary...Pre-K has different rates for how many days a week they attend; 3 or 5)

Also...how many families have 5 kids now-a-days ;) I would have calculated with 3 students as a more realistic number but I do see your point...and, I guess, 5 was the process of BigBrew's numbers.
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