Great Class B Towns

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Great Class B Towns

Postby heimer » Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:34 am

Bismarck
Minot
Dickinson

Three privates and Grafton.

When I hear, "first state since 2013," I know it's broken.

But for Gods sake, don't fix it.

Too bad Northern Cass won.
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Re: Great Class B Towns

Postby leroybla » Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:42 am

heimer wrote:Bismarck
Minot
Dickinson

Three privates and Grafton.

When I hear, "first state since 2013," I know it's broken.

But for Gods sake, don't fix it.

Too bad Northern Cass won.


It was reported that Oak Grove has been in the Region 1 final for the last 7 years in a row.
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Re: Great Class B Towns

Postby lions700 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:08 am

I knew it! Tonight we would hear about ORCS, Trinity, and Shiloh and all the recruiting nonsense. How did I know?
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Re: Great Class B Towns

Postby ndlionsfan » Fri Mar 11, 2016 9:41 am

Northern Cass has never qualified along with ORCS. SZ only been there a couple times in the history of the school and not since 2002. Kenmare has 1 other appearance (1988) in the last 50 years. I think we have a pretty good make up of class B in this tourney.

Complain all you want about Trinity and Shiloh, but FWM has been there just as much in the last decade. Where's your argument against them? There were just as many reservation schools in region championships last night as there were private schools. Do they have an unfair advantage, too? I understand these private schools do have advantages being in the big cities, but its really no different than Thompson, Kindred, Central Cass, Wilton, South Heart, Surrey, DLB, etc.
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Re: Great Class B Towns

Postby heimer » Fri Mar 11, 2016 9:48 am

You're a joke if you think being in Thompson and being in Bismarck are the same thing.

And not your theory. You.

Thompson plays football and baseball on a grass field with a tiny little grandstand, with the school itself being the home run fence. Then you drive by Shilohs palace and tell me the schools have the same advantages.

There is little more I need to say. Take the status quo to the grave. That's where it will be most useful.
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Re: Great Class B Towns

Postby ndlionsfan » Fri Mar 11, 2016 9:58 am

No, an athlete not getting time at Red River can just as easily transfer to Thompson as someone from BHS transferring to Shiloh. Thompson has the same easy access to summer leagues and YMCAs, etc. that Shiloh, Oak Grove, etc. have.

Yes, Shiloh has probably the nicest facilities in the state. Good for them and that is an advantage. So let's put all private schools in A because of it. Doesn't matter what facilities Ryan, ORCS, Oak Grove, Williston Trinity have. That's your typical narrow minded argument.

I'm all for three classes. I think we've reached a point in ND again where's there's a big enough difference between the middle and smaller schools. I hate co-ops.

Make an argument that is valid and sensible, though. Don't just spew garbage and try to prove a point.
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Re: Great Class B Towns

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 10:10 am

scc wrote:
heimer wrote:You're a joke if you think being in Thompson and being in Bismarck are the same thing.

And not your theory. You.

Thompson plays football and baseball on a grass field with a tiny little grandstand, with the school itself being the home run fence. Then you drive by Shilohs palace and tell me the schools have the same advantages.

There is little more I need to say. Take the status quo to the grave. That's where it will be most useful.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree with you, heimer. I've also warmed up to the 16/16/remainder three-class idea.


I won't lie...your last listing of 16/16/rest wasn't bad...and in the near future I do see a 3 class system forming...I just still think we are a minimum of 3 years away from that.
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Re: Great Class B Towns

Postby heimer » Fri Mar 11, 2016 10:18 am

Well, I've made several sensible arguments in the past, none of which survived because of the garbage you spew, namely the fact that Thompson can attract athletes from Red River.

Right now, I know of one case of cross-connecting between the schools: Thompson LOSES a tremendous athlete, Malek Larimer, TO RED RIVERS WRESTLING TEAM.

Thompson also LOSES two basketball players THAT WOULD HAVE HELPED THEM (one a 6 footer, both girls) TO EAST GRAND FORKS SACRED HEART. Oh by the way Sacred Heart plays for a section championship tonight in Thief River Falls. Their top scorer is from Thompson.

You mention Central Cass. Ever hear the name Tanner Kretchman? How did that work out for Central Cass? Wait, I remember now, he won a state title.......at Fargo Davies. And, if I'm not mistaken, that team also included a kid from North and a kid from Fargo.

Tell me again how those small towns are just outright snatching kids from big cities. You have zero knowledge base to even make an argument. Comparing Thompson to Shiloh was just a$$inine.
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Re: Great Class B Towns

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 10:22 am

heimer wrote:Well, I've made several sensible arguments in the past, none of which survived because of the garbage you spew, namely the fact that Thompson can attract athletes from Red River.

Right now, I know of one case of cross-connecting between the schools: Thompson LOSES a tremendous athlete, Malek Larimer, TO RED RIVERS WRESTLING TEAM.

Thompson also LOSES two basketball players THAT WOULD HAVE HELPED THEM (one a 6 footer, both girls) TO EAST GRAND FORKS SACRED HEART. Oh by the way Sacred Heart plays for a section championship tonight in Thief River Falls. Their top scorer is from Thompson.

You mention Central Cass. Ever hear the name Tanner Kretchman? How did that work out for Central Cass? Wait, I remember now, he won a state title.......at Fargo Davies. And, if I'm not mistaken, that team also included a kid from North and a kid from Fargo.

Tell me again how those small towns are just outright snatching kids from big cities. You have zero knowledge base to even make an argument. Comparing Thompson to Shiloh was just a$$inine.


Thompson doesn't have their own wrestling team...they COOP with GF Red River. So, Thompson didn't lose him...so that argument is squashed.

I believe ndlionsfan wasn't saying small towns are snatching athletes...he was stating that some smaller towns that live close to the large cities have some of the same advantages that the private schools benefit from (summer leagues, etc.). Read some of the posts before you go off on your arguments...
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Re: Great Class B Towns

Postby heimer » Fri Mar 11, 2016 10:34 am

They co-op so they can lose kids, period. And way to ignore the two other kids they lost to a different girls basketball team. Maybe you should read the posts.

I heard the argument. All of it. It's bull. There is no flow of talent from Grand Forks to Thompson. There is considerable flow of talent to Shiloh, and Trinity, and all the rest. You can't ignore it or justify it, so you five-knuckle-shuffle away from it with, "look at what this hand is holding up."

There is a bias among the mods on this board that needs to be addressed. Too many of you are Class-B apologists. It slants this board in that direction. It's time to find some mods with my point of view. Maybe then the "this board is dead" thread wouldn't pop up every year.
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Re: Great Class B Towns

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 10:41 am

heimer wrote:They co-op so they can lose kids, period. And way to ignore the two other kids they lost to a different girls basketball team. Maybe you should read the posts.

I heard the argument. All of it. It's bull. There is no flow of talent from Grand Forks to Thompson. There is considerable flow of talent to Shiloh, and Trinity, and all the rest. You can't ignore it or justify it, so you five-knuckle-shuffle away from it with, "look at what this hand is holding up."

There is a bias among the mods on this board that needs to be addressed. Too many of you are Class-B apologists. It slants this board in that direction. It's time to find some mods with my point of view. Maybe then the "this board is dead" thread wouldn't pop up every year.


I'm sick of it...I'm not anti-3 class or anti-the issues...I'm ANTI-YOU! There's no way anyone can base an argument with you because...well...we will ALWAYS be wrong...and you are NEVER wrong!

I didn't ignore it, why would I go around discussing something I don't have the facts on with the Thompson/Sacred Heart subject. I wait until I have some facts to go off of before I try to enter an argument...and I don't trust you!

There you go heimer...rip this post to shreds with your negativity and anti-everything!
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Re: Great Class B Towns

Postby The Schwab » Fri Mar 11, 2016 10:49 am

Heimer, I agree with you that there needs to be change when it comes to Class A/B, I have agreed with you for a long time that our system is broken. The only change I would make to your plan would be to have AA, A and B. Have AA and A at the same venue. I also am in favor of just dropping the enrollment cutoff number for class A to 200 and if you don't have a defined school district you also have to play class A (aka privates). Now I will hear the "you can't do that to all the privates, just because some have success doesn't mean they all do". Guess what? I DON'T CARE. They have a multiplier for football based on free and reduced meal percentage to drop a team a class, how come we can't have a multiplier that raises a team a class? And please, don't get me started on playing regionals on your home court. If you honestly think that it isn't a big deal, you've probably never played or coached or watched a tournament in a region that does. And if you have played/coached/watched a tournament that holds its tournament in the same place year after year and don't think it's a big deal, then you probably have ties to Dickinson Trinity.
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Re: Great Class B Towns

Postby heimer » Fri Mar 11, 2016 10:51 am

You have the facts. Michele and Jessica Remer are both from Thompson. Thompson lost two good girls players to a private school in a big city.

Those are facts.

And that is why this board is dead. Denial of facts by the moderators.

Denial of fact is also why we don't have 3 classes. Coincidence? I think not.

And why 3 years? We could have it in two. Too late for next year. But 17-18 should happen. You want that one more year hoping Epping and Rhame rise from the ashes so you can "see, I told you so" and keep us from progress?

Or is it to get a better handle on enrollment at Watford before deciding to bail them out?

That's Class B. We pick our favorites and defend the 1950s at all costs. You are a main part of the narrative. Pardon me for blowing it up.
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Re: Great Class B Towns

Postby winner-within » Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:00 am

Run4Fun2009 wrote:
heimer wrote:They co-op so they can lose kids, period. And way to ignore the two other kids they lost to a different girls basketball team. Maybe you should read the posts.

I heard the argument. All of it. It's bull. There is no flow of talent from Grand Forks to Thompson. There is considerable flow of talent to Shiloh, and Trinity, and all the rest. You can't ignore it or justify it, so you five-knuckle-shuffle away from it with, "look at what this hand is holding up."

There is a bias among the mods on this board that needs to be addressed. Too many of you are Class-B apologists. It slants this board in that direction. It's time to find some mods with my point of view. Maybe then the "this board is dead" thread wouldn't pop up every year.


I'm sick of it...I'm not anti-3 class or anti-the issues...I'm ANTI-YOU! There's no way anyone can base an argument with you because...well...we will ALWAYS be wrong...and you are NEVER wrong!

I didn't ignore it, why would I go around discussing something I don't have the facts on with the Thompson/Sacred Heart subject. I wait until I have some facts to go off of before I try to enter an argument.

There you go heimer...rip this post to shreds with your negativity and anti-everything!


very few from Thompson are from Thompson so one moves from Thompson isn't taking from Thompson.....very few from Thompson work in Thompson so deciding where to live when you dont work in Thompson takes you around a radius that circles 2 citys with a few schools.....same thing!

but I hear your argument with the other 2 scenarios
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Re: Great Class B Towns

Postby Flying Wallenda » Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:06 am

Heimer literally makes me want to drink - i'm talking go out and pound a 12 pack - arguing with him is asinine! THAT BEING SAID - no one will EVER convince me that the privates don't have a decided advantage over the publics. As a side note, Thompson cleary has an advantage over say a Strasburg, obviously based on location.
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Re: Great Class B Towns

Postby Sticks11 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:09 am

Before I say anything, I will say that I went to a Class B school 70 miles from the nearest Class A school. I competed against private schools in three sports in high school. I've coached against them. I also agree with the fact that there is valid arguments for 3 classes. One thing I know for certain, however, is that unless I know for sure the reason some of these kids are going to these schools, I'm not about to try and speak in an educated manner about it. I also agree 100% with the fact that schools like DLB and Kindred have the a lot of the same advantages when it comes to facilities and resources. What I don't get is as soon as one of them have success, we'll just talk all the crap we can about them. Nobody said a word about ORCS until now when they're heading to state. Before this year, they hadn't even played in a District Title game. Now they're just ridiculous because they made it to state. It was mentioned that this was the 7th year in a row that Oak Grove has played in a region title game. Wow!!!! How long of a stretch has Four Winds or North Star had? How many has Beulah been to over the last 10 years. To me, this is what makes Class B awesome. When an "underdog" can go and win it all. Is it a level playing field for everyone? NO!! It never will be! Throw them all in A, every school in a class A town, I hear. That makes sense. Nedrose and South Prairie belong in A. Ridiculous. It's also funny that if they were in class A, everyone would just forget about it. So then everyone must think that Devil's Lake has the same successful program as Minot High. Valley City should never lose to West Fargo because they're both Class A so they're the same. Everyone has valid points in arguments, but it sounds like to me we're more mad that they're successful and it's tiring to hear. Ya know what's really insane, some of the kids that play athletics for these privates actually just go to the school for the simple fact of going to that school. I know, right? Absolutely crazy.
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Re: Great Class B Towns

Postby ndpreps09 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:25 am

ndlionsfan wrote:Northern Cass has never qualified along with ORCS. SZ only been there a couple times in the history of the school and not since 2002. Kenmare has 1 other appearance (1988) in the last 50 years. I think we have a pretty good make up of class B in this tourney.

Complain all you want about Trinity and Shiloh, but FWM has been there just as much in the last decade. Where's your argument against them? There were just as many reservation schools in region championships last night as there were private schools. Do they have an unfair advantage, too? I understand these private schools do have advantages being in the big cities, but its really no different than Thompson, Kindred, Central Cass, Wilton, South Heart, Surrey, DLB, etc.



I'm not trying to start something up where people will say "you're just picking on Four Winds, Dunseith, etc." BUT since you are asking, one could make an argument. Four Winds/Minnewaukan's total school enrollment is approximately 235 people, which is good sized. Also didn't Tronnis and Trayvon come to Four Winds from elsewhere around their junior high years? I know Tronnis wasn't playing with Woodlake traveling team when they were late elementary/early junior high. Koepplin from Dunseith was just playing for Belcourt last year.
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Re: Great Class B Towns

Postby Flip » Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:34 am

heimer wrote:You have the facts. Michele and Jessica Remer are both from Thompson. Thompson lost two good girls players to a private school in a big city.

Those are facts.

And that is why this board is dead. Denial of facts by the moderators.

Denial of fact is also why we don't have 3 classes. Coincidence? I think not.

And why 3 years? We could have it in two. Too late for next year. But 17-18 should happen. You want that one more year hoping Epping and Rhame rise from the ashes so you can "see, I told you so" and keep us from progress?

Or is it to get a better handle on enrollment at Watford before deciding to bail them out?

That's Class B. We pick our favorites and defend the 1950s at all costs. You are a main part of the narrative. Pardon me for blowing it up.



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Re: Great Class B Towns

Postby Sticks11 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:40 am

Flip wrote:
heimer wrote:You have the facts. Michele and Jessica Remer are both from Thompson. Thompson lost two good girls players to a private school in a big city.

Those are facts.

And that is why this board is dead. Denial of facts by the moderators.

Denial of fact is also why we don't have 3 classes. Coincidence? I think not.

And why 3 years? We could have it in two. Too late for next year. But 17-18 should happen. You want that one more year hoping Epping and Rhame rise from the ashes so you can "see, I told you so" and keep us from progress?

Or is it to get a better handle on enrollment at Watford before deciding to bail them out?

That's Class B. We pick our favorites and defend the 1950s at all costs. You are a main part of the narrative. Pardon me for blowing it up.



Image


That's awesome!
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Re: Great Class B Towns

Postby EHS1998 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:17 pm

Flying Wallenda wrote:Heimer literally makes me want to drink - i'm talking go out and pound a 12 pack - arguing with him is asinine! THAT BEING SAID - no one will EVER convince me that the privates don't have a decided advantage over the publics. As a side note, Thompson cleary has an advantage over say a Strasburg, obviously based on location.



It would seem that Northern Cass would share a similar advantage. I am pretty sure there are kids in that school/sports programs who used to be in the Fargo school system.
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Re: Great Class B Towns

Postby heimer » Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:28 pm

Oh yeah, the exact same advantage. Cause it's really easy to drive your kid 60 miles to school or move and commute the same distance to work in Fargo, you know, like just as easy as driving from the Expressway to the Interstate.

Give me a freakin break.

Keep defending that status quo. It's working really, really well.
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Re: Great Class B Towns

Postby Gunning4ya » Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:36 pm

I do see South Praire and Nedrose growing with Minot High students. They will not have to pay a tuition fee because they are not private but public. One day we will be talking about them as well.
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Re: Great Class B Towns

Postby ndlionsfan » Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:37 pm

Sticks11 wrote:Before I say anything, I will say that I went to a Class B school 70 miles from the nearest Class A school. I competed against private schools in three sports in high school. I've coached against them. I also agree with the fact that there is valid arguments for 3 classes. One thing I know for certain, however, is that unless I know for sure the reason some of these kids are going to these schools, I'm not about to try and speak in an educated manner about it. I also agree 100% with the fact that schools like DLB and Kindred have the a lot of the same advantages when it comes to facilities and resources. What I don't get is as soon as one of them have success, we'll just talk all the crap we can about them. Nobody said a word about ORCS until now when they're heading to state. Before this year, they hadn't even played in a District Title game. Now they're just ridiculous because they made it to state. It was mentioned that this was the 7th year in a row that Oak Grove has played in a region title game. Wow!!!! How long of a stretch has Four Winds or North Star had? How many has Beulah been to over the last 10 years. To me, this is what makes Class B awesome. When an "underdog" can go and win it all. Is it a level playing field for everyone? NO!! It never will be! Throw them all in A, every school in a class A town, I hear. That makes sense. Nedrose and South Prairie belong in A. Ridiculous. It's also funny that if they were in class A, everyone would just forget about it. So then everyone must think that Devil's Lake has the same successful program as Minot High. Valley City should never lose to West Fargo because they're both Class A so they're the same. Everyone has valid points in arguments, but it sounds like to me we're more mad that they're successful and it's tiring to hear. Ya know what's really insane, some of the kids that play athletics for these privates actually just go to the school for the simple fact of going to that school. I know, right? Absolutely crazy.


Spot on with everything you said. Put all the schools in a class A town into class A? Gotta add Nedrose and South Prairie too then. Exactly. No one will ever argue for that, but the private schools have to go. Like Wallenda said before. The class B schools in the big cities definitely have an advantage over your regular class B schools. But most of this whining just comes from the teams having success and not applied to all.
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Re: Great Class B Towns

Postby classB4ever » Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:38 pm

I am not going to get into the debate. As one of the "old" posters on this subject, we all know it has been discussed many, many times. Most old posters have seen the statistical data I have entered on this site over the years. If nothing else, the state tournament has become quite predictable. Whether that is good or bad, I don't know or care any more. According to 20 years of data, below are the teams who figured to be in the regional championships games. Also the predicted winner in bold. Now, as a yearly follower of class b, I knew some of these were not going to hold up due to some strong teams in each of the regions, but it was still pretty close:

Region 1 - Oak Grove vs. Central Cass - Actual winner - Northern Cass (175)
Region 2 - Grafton vs. Hillsboro/CV - Actual winner - Grafton (260)
Region 3 - Linton vs. Carrington - Actual winner - Strasburg/Zeeland (63)
Region 4 - Four Winds/Minn. vs. Dunseith - Actual winner - FW/M (217)
Region 5 - Shiloh vs. Standing Rock - Actual winner - Shiloh (120)
Region 6 - Bishop Ryan vs. Rugby - Actual winner - Our Redeemers (*46) adjusted 7-12 number
Region 7 - Dickinson Trinity vs. Beulah - Actual winner - Dickinson Trinity (165)
Region 8 - Watford City vs. New Town - Actual winner - Kenmare (87)

Also, following are the percentages of a big, parochial and small school winning each region for the past 20 years.

Region 1 - 40% Big, 30% Parochial, 30% Small
Region 2 - 55% Big, 45% Small
Region 3 - 15% Big, 85% Small
Region 4 - 12.5% Big, 87.5% Small
Region 5 - 5% Big, 50% Parochial, 45% Small
Region 6 - 20% Big, 35% Parochial, 45% Small
Region 7 - 30% Big, 50% Parochial, 20% Small
Region 8 - 20% Big, 10% Parochial, 70% Small

According to percentages of schools vs. category in each region, the biggest chance of upsets are in regions 3 & 8. *Note - added actual winner and enrollment per NDHSAA.
Last edited by classB4ever on Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Great Class B Towns

Postby ndlionsfan » Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:43 pm

Interesting and very true. My one question, how did your data show that Carrington and Dunseith figured to be in their regions championship games when they have only been in those respective regions for a couple seasons?
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