North Dakota Preps

Region 1, with arguably the toughest competition overall, has no one ranked in the top ten.

leroybla wrote:Region 1, with arguably the toughest competition overall, has no one ranked in the top ten.

IMO, no one deserves to be Top 10 right now. They are all beating up on one another...

I just looked at LHMB’s schedule. They played 4 Strasburg-Zeeland, as well as Central Cass, Dickinson Trinity, Hettinger-Scranton and EKM, who are all receiving votes. They also played a very good South Dakota team in Herreid-Selby, and have 2 Shiloh and 6 Ellendale left on their schedule. Linton-HMB more than likely won’t be ranked in the final regular season poll, but for now, you can argue either way if they deserve to be there. The tough schedule will help them, as they always seem to be in the thick of things in the end. Right now, SZ appears to be the frontrunner in Region 3, and they should be favored, especially if they beat Ellendale and EKM in the final week. As far as the polls go, lets always remember what a poll is. It is operated by human beings, and human beings are by no means perfect. That’s the glory of the poll—it is open to opinion. Region 1 might not have any team in the top 10, but you know the winner of that region will be battle-tested, and like Milnor in 2013, don’t be surprised if the Region 1 champion can make some noise in the State Tourney. There are going to be some thrilling region tournaments this year, and the State Tournament should be no different.

The #4 spot in the poll is cursed!

I was just noticing that for the past 4 polls there has been a different team ranked #4 each week. Also, each week since Jan. 18, the team that moves up to the #4 spot loses.

1/18 Poll - Central Cass moves up to #4 and then loses on 1/19.
1/25 Poll - Milnor/NS moves up to #4 and then loses on 1/25.
2/1 Poll - Ellendale moves up to #4 and then loses on 2/2.
2/8 Poll - Strasburg-Zeeland moves up to #4 and then loses on 2/11.

Who will be the unfortunate team to make the #4 slot in next week's poll? Probably Hillsboro-CV.

TENTH POLL
February 15th

1. Four Winds-Minnewaukan (14) 16-1 149
2. Shiloh Christian (1) 16-1 135
3. Our Redeemer's 17-1 121
4. Hillsboro-Central Valley 16-1 91
5. Strasburg/Zeeland 14-3 78
6. Linton-HMB 14-3 60
7. Beulah 14-3 47
8. Larimore 16-2 39
9. Ellendale 15-2 33
10. St. John 14-2 25
Others Receiving Votes: Dickinson Trinity (13-4), Parshall (15-2), Milnor-North Sargent (15-2), Thompson (13-5), Hettinger-Scranton (13-5), Park River-FL (16-2), Bishop Ryan (15-3).

The #4 spot curse is alive and well!!!!

2/15 Poll - Hillsboro-CV moves up to #4 and then loses on 2/16!

Wonder who next weeks victim will be? We will have to see how the rest of the week's games play out.

Run4Fun2009 wrote:

leroybla wrote:Region 1, with arguably the toughest competition overall, has no one ranked in the top ten.

IMO, no one deserves to be Top 10 right now. They are all beating up on one another...

There is no question that Region 1 teams are beating up on one another. But, that is to be expected in regions that have a number of good teams. In regions such as 5, that has a good top team, but their second best team has a QRF ranking of 30, likely will not face much competition or experience top teams "beating up on one another".

I have done some playing with numbers. I converted the RPI strength of each region to a 10 point scale (I think it is easier for most to relate to numbers in this way). So Region 1's RPI of .5272 is converted to 10.0. Here is each region's RPI strength on the 10 point scale. I'm also putting the QRF computer ranking of the 11th ranked team in each region to show the depth of regions.
Region 1- 10.0 11th ranked team's rank 57
Region 7- 9.66 11th ranked team's rank 70
Region 6- 9.62 11th ranked team's rank 65
Region 2- 9.54 11th ranked team's rank 71
Region 4- 9.47 11th ranked team's rank 89
Region 3- 9.36 11th ranked team's rank 90
Region 5- 8.76 11th ranked team's rank 100
Region 8- 8.74 11th ranked team's rank 80

The largest numerical difference between regions is between the 6th ranked Region 3 and 7th ranked Region 5 with a difference of 0.60. The next largest difference is between the top ranked Region 1 and the second ranked Region 7, with a difference of 0.34.

The Polls don't mean much, but I would think that the strongest region would have a team or two in the top 10, when the Poll has 3 teams in the top 7 with at least 3 losses.

Breaking down the top 20 (according to KMAV.com as of 2/17/16)

Region 1- 2 (#'s 16 and 20)
Region 2- 2 (#'s 12 and 19)
Region 3- 2 (#'s 8 and 10)
Region 4- 4 (#'s 2, 7, 15 and 17)
Region 5- 1 (# 3)
Region 6- 4 (#1, 6, 13 and 18)
Region 7- 3 (#'s 4, 5 and 14)
Region 8- 2 (#'s 9 and 11)

Teams in the top 50:

Region 1- 8
Region 2- 5
Region 3- 7
Region 4- 5
Region 5- 5
Region 6- 8
Region 7- 6
Region 8- 6

Based on these numbers I see a lot of parity in class B basketball. I don't see a region who is head a shoulders above anyone. D_fense I like the work you went through. I'm sure that took a lot of time. Having a better 11th ranked team is good, but in how many regions does the 11th best team have a realistic shot to get to win the region?

The Schwab wrote:Breaking down the top 20 (according to KMAV.com as of 2/17/16)

Region 1- 2 (#'s 16 and 20)
Region 2- 2 (#'s 12 and 19)
Region 3- 2 (#'s 8 and 10)
Region 4- 4 (#'s 2, 7, 15 and 17)
Region 5- 1 (# 3)
Region 6- 4 (#1, 6, 13 and 18)
Region 7- 3 (#'s 4, 5 and 14)
Region 8- 2 (#'s 9 and 11)

Teams in the top 50:

Region 1- 8
Region 2- 5
Region 3- 7
Region 4- 5
Region 5- 5
Region 6- 8
Region 7- 6
Region 8- 6

Based on these numbers I see a lot of parity in class B basketball. I don't see a region who is head a shoulders above anyone. D_fense I like the work you went through. I'm sure that took a lot of time. Having a better 11th ranked team is good, but in how many regions does the 11th best team have a realistic shot to get to win the region?

Both of you did a lot of work. Thank you. Always good to get info. BTW Region 1's #10 Oak Grove has the 4th strongest SOS in the state and owns wins over Dickenson Trinity and Central Cass while they were in the polls. I don't think it would be a stretch to say they could pull off a win if they can even make the tournament. And I think something is a little wonky in the RPI because if you highlight the Region 1 teams you will see somehow they have M-NS ranked 20th but show their SOS as the 12th easiest in their region, along with Enderlin, and Northern Cass joining them in the bottom five of the region. Why you ask? Because they don't have to play themselves. Computer rankings only work if all things are equal.
Here is the overall RPI of each region as a whole per your website.

Boys Region Strength Based on RPI http://classbbasketball.com/?s=rpi&y=20 ... xplanation

Region 1 .5284
Region 2 .5067
Region 3 .4959
Region 4 .4981
Region 5 .4632
Region 6 .5071
Region 7 .5103
Region 8 .4601

They may be 10th in the standings, but they are 6th in the RPI, which is how I would actually rank teams. Just my two cents.

Thanks, but it didn't take long, I'm a numbers person. If you would have asked your question Monday, I could have replied, "Region 1's current 11th place team has beat a pretty stout Dickenson Trinity team, so ya, I think they have a chance." I think they are now the region's 10 sead.

Not necessarily disagreeing but they have to win a play in game to even get into the tournament. That tells me just how strong the region is. My $.02.

wan2bqb wrote:Not necessarily disagreeing but they have to win a play in game to even get into the tournament. That tells me just how strong the region is. My $.02.

Looking at the weak schedules among high ranked teams indicates many can "fatten" their records playing some opponents more than once. Not in Region 1.

I absolutely agree that Region 1 is very, very good from top to bottom. I also didn't say that there wasn't an eleventh best team in a region that could win the region, I did say there aren't many. Oak Groves win against Trinity is very very impressive, but some may say that Trinity could have ran out of gas after playing 2 games that same week that were decided on the final possession, but I certainly won't take anything away from the Grovers. The 10th best team in Region 7 (Killdeer) pushed one of Region 1's top teams (Enderlin) into double overtime on the road. I think all of these examples speak to the parity of class B basketball this season. There are at least 3 teams in every region (minus Region 5 in my opinion) that could make the state tournament and win a first round game. A very exciting final month for class b fans!

Some good points. I don't think running out of gas is one however. They played Tuesday, Friday, and Saturday. I will never except running out of gas as an excuse for high school kids. Time to prepare can be a problem, but having 2 days to practice before playing 2 games should be enough. Monday games cAn be rough in fri, sat, mon situations but they don't happen often. I would guess the OG win was more a case of being overlooked a bit and probably good shooting from 3.

There is no question that Enderlin has one of the better players in Region 1 in Hurlburt. However, I don't think they are one of the regions top teams. They could finish as high 3rd if they win tonight, which I think would be an upset. I think if the teams all played each other a number of times it would be pretty evident that they are the regions 5th best team. Now, watch them make it to State

The Schwab wrote:I absolutely agree that Region 1 is very, very good from top to bottom. I also didn't say that there wasn't an eleventh best team in a region that could win the region, I did say there aren't many. Oak Groves win against Trinity is very very impressive, but some may say that Trinity could have ran out of gas after playing 2 games that same week that were decided on the final possession, but I certainly won't take anything away from the Grovers. The 10th best team in Region 7 (Killdeer) pushed one of Region 1's top teams (Enderlin) into double overtime on the road. I think all of these examples speak to the parity of class B basketball this season. There are at least 3 teams in every region (minus Region 5 in my opinion) that could make the state tournament and win a first round game. A very exciting final month for class b fans!

Agree with you, but Kildeer also lost on the same trip to Lisbon in Enderlin so it was a neutral court. Any team any given day.

d_fense wrote:Some good points. I don't think running out of gas is one however. They played Tuesday, Friday, and Saturday. I will never except running out of gas as an excuse for high school kids. Time to prepare can be a problem, but having 2 days to practice before playing 2 games should be enough. Monday games cAn be rough in fri, sat, mon situations but they don't happen often. I would guess the OG win was more a case of being overlooked a bit and probably good shooting from 3.

There is no question that Enderlin has one of the better players in Region 1 in Hurlburt. However, I don't think they are one of the regions top teams. They could finish as high 3rd if they win tonight, which I think would be an upset. I think if the teams all played each other a number of times it would be pretty evident that they are the regions 5th best team. Now, watch them make it to State

Spot on. I don't think running out of gas should be an excuse in High school ball. They all play multiple games in a week, they all travel long distances, They all have to ride the bus home late then play again sometimes even the next day. Ill give an example I know of. M-NS lost to Central Cass after playing a Friday night game, a Saturday afternoon game, then lost on Monday night. 3 games in 4 nights, no excuses its a fact of life. Besides when they go to the regionals its 3 games in 4 nights. No time for excuses.

FINAL POLL
February 22nd

1. Four Winds-Minnewaukan (14) 18-1 140
2. Our Redeemer's 18-1 117
3. Shiloh Christian 17-2 114
4. Beulah 17-3 85
5. Larimore 18-2 64
6. Hillsboro-Central Valley 18-2 62
7. St. John 17-2 46
8. Strasburg/Zeeland 15-4 41
9. Dickinson Trinity 16-4 28
10. Parshall 17-2 26
Others Receiving Votes: Thompson (15-5), Ellendale (16-3), Linton-HMB (14-5), Bishop Ryan (16-3), Milnor-North Sargent (16-4), Drake-Anamoose (17-2), Edgeley-Kulm-Montpelier (16-3).

Run4Fun2009 wrote:FINAL POLL
February 22nd

1. Four Winds-Minnewaukan (14) 18-1 140
2. Our Redeemer's 18-1 117
3. Shiloh Christian 17-2 114
4. Beulah 17-3 85
5. Larimore 18-2 64
6. Hillsboro-Central Valley 18-2 62
7. St. John 17-2 46
8. Strasburg/Zeeland 15-4 41
9. Dickinson Trinity 16-4 28
10. Parshall 17-2 26
Others Receiving Votes: Thompson (15-5), Ellendale (16-3), Linton-HMB (14-5), Bishop Ryan (16-3), Milnor-North Sargent (16-4), Drake-Anamoose (17-2), Edgeley-Kulm-Montpelier (16-3).

Good teams but ones gotta remember there are some that have the bad luck to be in the same district/region as ranked teams. Dunseith comes to mind along with Berthold, Trinity Christian, Dl-B...how about in other regions?

Interesting info if you take the last pool ,which would mean the top ten plus those receiving votes would be the top 17 teams in the state here is the breakdown by region, along with the computer generated RPI which denote strength of compition:

Boys Region Strength Based on RPI

Region 1 .5259 - M-NS=1 team in poll
Region 7 .5142 - Beulah, Dickenson Trinity= 2 teams
Region 2 .5085- Larimore, H/CV, Thompson= 3 teams
Region 6 .5080- Our Redeemers, Bishop Ryan, Drake Anamoose = 3 teams
Region 4 .5014 - FW/M, St. John= 2 teams
Region 3 .4920 - Strasburg/Zeeland, Ellendale, LHMB, Edgley/Kulm= 4 teams
Region 5 .4638 - Shiloh Cristian= 1 team
Region 8 .4559 - Parshall= 1 team

See a trend? The toughest region in the state gets one team that receives vote, Second toughest only receives two, two weakest receive 1 vote, the remaining in the middle get all the vote because they beat up on the teams they play inside their own region. Just thought it was interesting. Polls mean nothing of course because you have to beat everyone to be champs.

Run4Fun2009 wrote:FINAL POLL
February 22nd

1. Four Winds-Minnewaukan (14) 18-1 140
2. Our Redeemer's 18-1 117
3. Shiloh Christian 17-2 114
4. Beulah 17-3 85
5. Larimore 18-2 64
6. Hillsboro-Central Valley 18-2 62
7. St. John 17-2 46
8. Strasburg/Zeeland 15-4 41
9. Dickinson Trinity 16-4 28
10. Parshall 17-2 26
Others Receiving Votes: Thompson (15-5), Ellendale (16-3), Linton-HMB (14-5), Bishop Ryan (16-3), Milnor-North Sargent (16-4), Drake-Anamoose (17-2), Edgeley-Kulm-Montpelier (16-3).

How is Edgeley-Kulm-Montpelier not in the poll? They have only three losses the first to Ellendale who was ranked a good portion of the year and the loss was only by one then they beat Ellendale by 12 in district play. Then they lost to Linton who was also ranked most the year also by 1. They lost to a tough Lamoure team in over time. their last win was by 11 over Strasburg - Zeeland. I just dont get it.

This is why it's an impossible task to rank the top 20ish teams in the state. EKM probably isn't in the poll (but they are receiving votes) because of the loss to LaMoure (9-10 on the season). You have a lot of teams in the poll who have less than 3 losses, but who have they played? If you are a fan of basketball this years District/Region/State tournaments will be full of parity and upsets. 7 different regions make up the top 10 teams in state (Region 1 has one team receiving votes). I am sure there will be some upsets along the way and some teams will be in the state tournament that no one expects. Enjoy the parity!

I don't see why people get so upset about their teams not being in the polls. Newsflash.....POLLS MEAN NOTHING!!!

The Schwab wrote:This is why it's an impossible task to rank the top 20ish teams in the state. EKM probably isn't in the poll (but they are receiving votes) because of the loss to LaMoure (9-10 on the season). You have a lot of teams in the poll who have less than 3 losses, but who have they played? If you are a fan of basketball this years District/Region/State tournaments will be full of parity and upsets. 7 different regions make up the top 10 teams in state (Region 1 has one team receiving votes). I am sure there will be some upsets along the way and some teams will be in the state tournament that no one expects. Enjoy the parity!

Exactly This is high school ball, they are kids. Maybe dad said no to their plans for the weekend, maybe they bombed the biggest test of their life (of course there will be another one next week) or girlfriend/boyfriend broke up with them you never know. They don't get paid to play the game, they do it because its fun, for the love of the game, the camaraderie, we follow it because its fun and you never know what's going to happen. Is the all state guard going to come out and go 2 for 10 from the field? Is the big man inside going to get into foul trouble and ruin the whole flow of their offense? Is the reserve guard that nobody has seen all year going to come off the bench and go 5 for 6 from downtown and have everyone wondering why they haven't been playing all along? Every team can be beaten, some just are better than others, but I can't say there is a team in the state that I would say OMG these guys have it all nobody will touch them. They are so much better at all aspects. NO! It just doesn't happen. That's why we love it. That's why we watch, that's why we get so emotional about it.