North Dakota Preps

I think it shows that the gap from A to B isn't quite as big as most people think. If the 7-8th best team in a Class B region can knock of a middle of the pack team in a Class A region I think more Class B teams could contend as well. Would most of a one class state tournament be comprised of Class A teams? Of course. But quite a few B teams could get in there as well. Would the bottom of the pack Class B teams ever compete? no.

I just can't see a huge benefit. Look what the Bishop Ryan girls are doing in Class B right now, when they are a team that is obviously strong enough to compete in Class A. At this point, Bismarck Century and Saint Mary's Central have basically blown everyone out, with Minot beating Saint Mary's Central at home. What would a game between either of this teams against a Sawyer, Flasher, Garrison, etc., be like? I can't think of a way this is beneficial.

In my opinion, the WDA is incredibly top heavy this season, while the EDC is much more balanced, but I think the top 3 teams in the WDA are the three best teams in North Dakota. It isn't really a shocker to see a Dunseith beat a Turtle Mountain, when that Turtle Mountain team has been very inconsistent this season.

I mean, yes, Dunseith did beat Turtle Mountain, however, Turtle Mountain is averaging a 25.3 point loss against the top 3 WDA teams, so Turtle Mountain's chance of actually competing for a state tournament berth is very slim, as they have to beat one of those teams plus Bismarck, who they also lost to by 25.

This is not to say that a team like a Rugby would not have a chance of making a state tournament, because I think they would have a chance. Again though, games are a bit different when you are playing in a conference and teams prepare for you and know what you do, as prepared to non conference games where you are not playing for anything.

balla45 wrote:What would a one class system accomplish? It would just eliminate current Class B teams an opportunity to play in a state tournament.

IMO, I don't think one class will ever be the answer. balla45, you brought up something that I have argued for years. The opportunity to play in a state tournament. The question is, "Is it more important to make it to state or to win the state tournament." For me it has always been for a team to get there. Then, let the chips fall in 3 days of bb.
Another point that has been discussed in great length is the advantages of a private/parochial school and their location. Honestly, these schools will always be a problem in trying to move forward with any changes to our current 2 class system.
Here is an idea for some fun banter for a modified 3 class system. What if (in class b) the district lines were eliminated and players were allowed to create a team and/or move within these region lines without having to sit out the 180 days. Basically, each year, players were allowed to form an "all-region" team or play with another team. If this happens, they automatically play in the middle class. All parochial/private schools also play in the middle class. Might even be able to move the enrollment numbers around to have a few more teams in this class. All 3 classes have their regional tourneys and then play in the modified state tournament that heimer created a while ago. Each class crowns their state champion on Friday night and the final night, a winner take all state championship. This is just a "what if" post and would like to hear the "why it won't" work" posts.

District 11 #4 seed - Dunsieth defeated WDA #5 seed - Belcourt by 11 points tonight. Anyone wanna bring back the one class system discussion? haha

I can see all the Davies fan buses heading to Milnor right now.

Just saying that if you threw Belcourt and Devils Lake in Region 4; GF Central and GFRR in Region 2; Jamestown and Valley city in Region 3; Minot in Region 6; Williston in Region 8; Dickinson in Region 7; and Wahpeton in Region 1. Would those teams goto state every year? No. These would make for some great Region tourneys.

Yes I agree that just shear volume of Fargo and Bismarck teams would make it hard for the teams like Flasher, Kindred, Enderlin, or Turtle Lake to compete for a Region Title and State tournament berth. But in these other areas it would and could work.

I do like the two Class system we have now. I think more A's and B's should play during the regular season. But if you're asking me about having a three class system, I would take a one class over three every day.

I like this idea, the bigs would go to state 98% of the time so the smalls would coop 3, 4 ,5 schools together to compete so less kids get to play. Hey!!!!!!! Well maybe that would help wrestling fill their weight classes with less boys playing basketball.

I'll take one also over 3 but I would go further and say that instead of co-ops or super co-ops that we do full consolidation like North Border did years back....but now Cavalier is co-oping with NB and picking and choosing what sport to do it in, and that is something I dont totally agree with either...Consolidate, get the numbers up, then Both Academics (most important) and the sports are enhanced

North Border isn't what I would call a true consolidation by your standards winner. Yes they are one district now, but there are still school in each of those towns so in reality its nothing more than a co-op. It's not your "build a new school out in the middle of nowhere" true consolidation. I mean, do students in Pembina get any more educational opportunities (or even extra curricular for that matter) since they share the same name with Walhalla and Neche? No.

ndlionsfan wrote:North Border isn't what I would call a true consolidation by your standards winner. Yes they are one district now, but there are still school in each of those towns so in reality its nothing more than a co-op. It's not your "build a new school out in the middle of nowhere" true consolidation. I mean, do students in Pembina get any more educational opportunities (or even extra curricular for that matter) since they share the same name with Walhalla and Neche? No.

I dont set standards, I confer on a Forum (exactly what its here for).... I would never want it built in the "middle of nowhere" (so dont try and make my idea sound lame please) but they could certainly use my tax dollars to build it in a sensible place, and yes its (NB) a consolidation

I said not one thing about "educational opportunities"

winner-within wrote:I'll take one also over 3 but I would go further and say that instead of co-ops or super co-ops that we do full consolidation like North Border did years back....but now Cavalier is co-oping with NB and picking and choosing what sport to do it in, and that is something I dont totally agree with either...Consolidate, get the numbers up, then Both Academics (most important) and the sports are enhanced

Numbers would not really be up. You take 3 schools with an A and a B squad. lets say 20 kids 8 - 12, that's 60 kids. You would go to one with an A, B, C squad with about 30 - 35 kids. Minot has how many kids in High school 10 - 12 and only has A and B squads from what I here. That's less kids I do believe. Academics better maybe, my cousins in Bismarck had to take summer classes because they where in Music and Band, the only way they could get the classes they needed to graduate. that does not happen in a smaller school.

lovwatchingsports wrote:

winner-within wrote:I'll take one also over 3 but I would go further and say that instead of co-ops or super co-ops that we do full consolidation like North Border did years back....but now Cavalier is co-oping with NB and picking and choosing what sport to do it in, and that is something I dont totally agree with either...Consolidate, get the numbers up, then Both Academics (most important) and the sports are enhanced

Numbers would not really be up. You take 3 schools with an A and a B squad. lets say 20 kids 8 - 12, that's 60 kids. You would go to one with an A, B, C squad with about 30 - 35 kids. Minot has how many kids in High school 10 - 12 and only has A and B squads from what I here. That's less kids I do believe. Academics better maybe, my cousins in Bismarck had to take summer classes because they where in Music and Band, the only way they could get the classes they needed to graduate. that does not happen in a smaller school.

and you are correct, in most cases the numbers go up only for the first couple of years ....then they plain off, hence the true reason for the consolidation, which is just not enough to make that many schools

winner-within wrote:

ndlionsfan wrote:North Border isn't what I would call a true consolidation by your standards winner. Yes they are one district now, but there are still school in each of those towns so in reality its nothing more than a co-op. It's not your "build a new school out in the middle of nowhere" true consolidation. I mean, do students in Pembina get any more educational opportunities (or even extra curricular for that matter) since they share the same name with Walhalla and Neche? No.

I dont set standards, I confer on a Forum (exactly what its here for).... I would never want it built in the "middle of nowhere" (so dont try and make my idea sound lame please) but they could certainly use my tax dollars to build it in a sensible place, and yes its (NB) a consolidation

I said not one thing about "educational opportunities"

I just wish you were able to stick with one stance. the comments I made were from previous arguments in other forums you have made. That's when you have always argued that "true" consolidation shouldn't be done for sports but for academic opportunities. That's where you have said get 4-5 towns together and build a school in the middle. That's why I made that point as NB doesn't fit your educational consolidation model. That's why I'm surprised you used that example. Your ideas before have always been getting the students under one roof.

ndlionsfan wrote:

winner-within wrote:

ndlionsfan wrote:North Border isn't what I would call a true consolidation by your standards winner. Yes they are one district now, but there are still school in each of those towns so in reality its nothing more than a co-op. It's not your "build a new school out in the middle of nowhere" true consolidation. I mean, do students in Pembina get any more educational opportunities (or even extra curricular for that matter) since they share the same name with Walhalla and Neche? No.

I dont set standards, I confer on a Forum (exactly what its here for).... I would never want it built in the "middle of nowhere" (so dont try and make my idea sound lame please) but they could certainly use my tax dollars to build it in a sensible place, and yes its (NB) a consolidation

I said not one thing about "educational opportunities"

I just wish you were able to stick with one stance. the comments I made were from previous arguments in other forums you have made. That's when you have always argued that "true" consolidation shouldn't be done for sports but for academic opportunities. That's where you have said get 4-5 towns together and build a school in the middle. That's why I made that point as NB doesn't fit your educational consolidation model. That's why I'm surprised you used that example. Your ideas before have always been getting the students under one roof.

what I wish, is people would express their thoughts on consolidating, it happens on a basis of total dissolve and enforcement and then folks complain about it.....in reality the sports co-ops should draw the picture of the future but they dont because one school pulls and is now going somewhere else, which is a fierce merry-go-round....this affect kids and familys....

my stance hasn't changed, has it compromised and lets say evolved because of some of the input on here and outside of this forum? yes.....but the bottom line is just a new facility in itself is an opportunity and an enhancement in itself...the rest follows...should there only be new schools by Fargo and the oil field (which you know is coming) ? not IMO ....nothing is overnight in the Public system...but the Public system has to be governed by the Public, and not just a chosen few of them ...

woodchuck10 wrote:Just saying that if you threw Belcourt and Devils Lake in Region 4; GF Central and GFRR in Region 2; Jamestown and Valley city in Region 3; Minot in Region 6; Williston in Region 8; Dickinson in Region 7; and Wahpeton in Region 1. Would those teams goto state every year? No. These would make for some great Region tourneys.

Yes I agree that just shear volume of Fargo and Bismarck teams would make it hard for the teams like Flasher, Kindred, Enderlin, or Turtle Lake to compete for a Region Title and State tournament berth. But in these other areas it would and could work.

I do like the two Class system we have now. I think more A's and B's should play during the regular season. But if you're asking me about having a three class system, I would take a one class over three every day.

Hate this idea. Right now, talent is heavily concentrated in
Bismarck and Fargo. There is no reason a Jamestown plays in a state tournament and a Century, Saint Mary's, or Century is home. With this proposed plan, that is likely to happen. Would you really like a state tournament where the one team from Bismarck, the one team from Minot, the one team from Fargo, and the one team from Grand Forks beat up on teams by huge margins because they aren't state caliber teams?

balla45 wrote:

woodchuck10 wrote:Just saying that if you threw Belcourt and Devils Lake in Region 4; GF Central and GFRR in Region 2; Jamestown and Valley city in Region 3; Minot in Region 6; Williston in Region 8; Dickinson in Region 7; and Wahpeton in Region 1. Would those teams goto state every year? No. These would make for some great Region tourneys.

Yes I agree that just shear volume of Fargo and Bismarck teams would make it hard for the teams like Flasher, Kindred, Enderlin, or Turtle Lake to compete for a Region Title and State tournament berth. But in these other areas it would and could work.

I do like the two Class system we have now. I think more A's and B's should play during the regular season. But if you're asking me about having a three class system, I would take a one class over three every day.

Hate this idea. Right now, talent is heavily concentrated in
Bismarck and Fargo. There is no reason a Jamestown plays in a state tournament and a Century, Saint Mary's, or Century is home. With this proposed plan, that is likely to happen. Would you really like a state tournament where the one team from Bismarck, the one team from Minot, the one team from Fargo, and the one team from Grand Forks beat up on teams by huge margins because they aren't state caliber teams?

Thats what im saying. One Class would work if it wasn't for all the Fargo and Bismarck Schools. I also think you underestimate the Class B talent. Class B talent=Class A Talent. Class B depth<Class A depth. Thats the only difference.

Just to say again my position on class systems:

Two Class>One Class>Three Class

I don't think I underestimate Class B talent. I watch a ton of games at both levels. I just think depth is way bigger than people realize. I think the best ND junior is a Class B player. Do I think Rugby would beat Jamestown right now? Yes. But in 2 years that likely changes for a long stretch. I think we are best off in a 2 or 3 class system. There is no feasible situation where a school like Max ever competes with a school like Century. I'm all for three classes. As I get out and recruit and meet new players from different communities, I start to see the point of view in being from a small school where you are the only player who cares, and your team will never have a chance of beating the bigger schools in your area.