North Dakota Preps

Serious question

first one, without a doubt

I went with 1 but 4 is an absolute possibility. I hope it doesnt happen but it could. My philisophy is as Class A and Class B are currently constituted, when VC or any other school falls below the enrollment limit, they belong in B. No ifs, ands or buts about it.

However, I really think a three class system makes sense for ND at this point in time. But it isnt going to happen.

EHS1998 wrote:I went with 1 but 4 is an absolute possibility. I hope it doesnt happen but it could. My philisophy is as Class A and Class B are currently constituted, when VC or any other school falls below the enrollment limit, they belong in B. No ifs, ands or buts about it.

However, I really think a three class system makes sense for ND at this point in time. But it isnt going to happen.

3 class in B would be like a 2 class in A....it would ruin it

EHS1998 wrote:I went with 1 but 4 is an absolute possibility. I hope it doesnt happen but it could. My philisophy is as Class A and Class B are currently constituted, when VC or any other school falls below the enrollment limit, they belong in B. No ifs, ands or buts about it.

However, I really think a three class system makes sense for ND at this point in time. But it isnt going to happen.

In reference to 4 above: By doing this all that would happen is Class A would then be what Class B is now. The only difference is the bigger class b schools would be on the other end of the spectrum. The enrollment ratio from top to bottom might even be worse then it is now in B. It isn't solving any problems, just moving them around. I agree with you, 3 classes at this time, would be better than option 4.

You realize that WC, Stan, Berthold, Tioga, and other schools are growing leaps and bounds. But most of the older kids that they get do not do sports. (Hopefully the younger ones will) But these schools could break those numbers and be A. Could they play at that level? I do not think so. 3 class would help this. Berthold is (I have heard) dropping OR in football so they will not move up a class. Where do those kids go?

So say we get a 3 class system, call it AA, A, and B. Which one, in your opinion, would be most like Class B right now. The middle class or the new lower B class.
Also, if that is the way it goes, do you allow teams that would qualify B petition to play up in the middle class as some AAA football teams did a few years ago like Shanley and WHap until they saw DL having great success and improved numbers and decided to go down.
Also, with the fluctuation of numbers out west, how often do you realign, and wouldn't many big rivalries be destroyed. Just some questions to ponder.

This may cause a stir, but it really isn't meant to. The only thing I would say for sure is that the privates would need to be in the middle class, at a minimum. The competitive advantage these schools currently have (whether they are taking advantage of it or not), with no district boundaries, is significant. In some states, private schools have to play in their own league so they are playing against teams with the same enrollment rules.

lovwatchingsports wrote:You realize that WC, Stan, Berthold, Tioga, and other schools are growing leaps and bounds. But most of the older kids that they get do not do sports. (Hopefully the younger ones will) But these schools could break those numbers and be A. Could they play at that level? I do not think so. 3 class would help this. Berthold is (I have heard) dropping OR in football so they will not move up a class. Where do those kids go?

They aren't growing that much where all of those are threatening breaking the Class A line. In a matter of 10 years, Watford City has gone from having 60 kids per grade in elementary and middle school to 80 kids per grade. That's still an enrollment of 320-ish if those kids are still around for high school. Watford City has seen the biggest growth. Tioga is only at 40 kids per class in elementary and 35 in high school. Stanley is a little bit bigger than Tioga, but growing at a slower rate. Berthold has about 250 kids K-12. There's no way they'll get to class A unless they strike gold in town. Yes, schools are growing, but not by any exponential numbers. The only school I see getting to class A is Watford City and that'll take a few years before that even happens.

watford city has way bigger numbers in elementary....120 in K, 115 in 1st grad....we are projected to go over 325 in 9-12 in 2016. that would put us in A in 2018. no way we compete

triplebbb wrote:watford city has way bigger numbers in elementary....120 in K, 115 in 1st grad....we are projected to go over 325 in 9-12 in 2016. that would put us in A in 2018. no way we compete

start grooming those first graders....you'll compete someday

How about a separate region tourney for the private schools? Everyone knows they have a greater talent pool to draw from. Instead of a possible state tourney with 5 private schools they could send one. Isn't that a major reason why we want a 3 class system? For example; Roughly 3500 high school kids in Bismarck/Mandan, 60 kids good enough to play for the 3 class A schools, does this not leave a huge talent pool to draw from if some 'pretty good' players want to play and aren't quite good enough to make class A? If we are seriously considering a 3 class system this needs to be discussed.

I do not like that idea. If 5 of the best teams are private schools, I would like to see 5 private schools at state.

jtdc492 wrote:How about a separate region tourney for the private schools? Everyone knows they have a greater talent pool to draw from. Instead of a possible state tourney with 5 private schools they could send one. Isn't that a major reason why we want a 3 class system? For example; Roughly 3500 high school kids in Bismarck/Mandan, 60 kids good enough to play for the 3 class A schools, does this not leave a huge talent pool to draw from if some 'pretty good' players want to play and aren't quite good enough to make class A? If we are seriously considering a 3 class system this needs to be discussed.

You make it sound like there is no such thing as school affiliation. Like these are all independent teams that pick and choose whoever they want as long as they stay in their town.

Let's get real. At points in the past on this board, we've had reasonable people reach a one true conclusion about private schools. They have one slight competitive advantage over small towns, but it hasn't a thing to do with talent pool to draw from. The have who they have. The only advantage is those kids grow up in large towns with class A schools. This means they can grow up playing more competitively against class A kids, thus helping them be better at a younger age. There are more opportunities for them to get better, but the kids still have to put in the work. This is the only advantage a private school has. This whole "talent pool" thing is the most outrageous misconception.

I know Valley City is projected to fall in enrollment by 2018 but just wondering a lot of new businesses to be built between Jamestown and Valley city in next few years. Could they get enough growth they just stay above threshold. I have been wondering if part of eastern ND will also going to see some of the growth that western ND is experiencing to where we see some improvement in enrollments. A lot of proposed spinoffs from western ND plus Fargo and Grand Forks being led by university in business growth we could see some growth in some schools. The Demographics of state may change in next 5 to 10 years where there may be need to change how sports are structured.

Indy5 wrote:

jtdc492 wrote:How about a separate region tourney for the private schools? Everyone knows they have a greater talent pool to draw from. Instead of a possible state tourney with 5 private schools they could send one. Isn't that a major reason why we want a 3 class system? For example; Roughly 3500 high school kids in Bismarck/Mandan, 60 kids good enough to play for the 3 class A schools, does this not leave a huge talent pool to draw from if some 'pretty good' players want to play and aren't quite good enough to make class A? If we are seriously considering a 3 class system this needs to be discussed.

You make it sound like there is no such thing as school affiliation. Like these are all independent teams that pick and choose whoever they want as long as they stay in their town.

Let's get real. At points in the past on this board, we've had reasonable people reach a one true conclusion about private schools. They have one slight competitive advantage over small towns, but it hasn't a thing to do with talent pool to draw from. The have who they have. The only advantage is those kids grow up in large towns with class A schools. This means they can grow up playing more competitively against class A kids, thus helping them be better at a younger age. There are more opportunities for them to get better, but the kids still have to put in the work. This is the only advantage a private school has. This whole "talent pool" thing is the most outrageous misconception.

Do mean that an athlete living in north Fargo, who has the choice of attending North, Park Christian, Shanley or Oak Grove, is the same as a small town athlete living in rural ND?

I remember about 10 years ago when Milnor was in the state class B championship at the FargoDome. They ended their season with three losses; one to Fergus Falls Hillcrest, one to Oak Grove, and the final game of the state B to Dickinson Trinity. Anecdotal, probably. But a disproportionate number of private schools advance to state competitions. Coincidence? I don't think so.

Possibly there's no solution, but let's not deny that it exists.

leroybla wrote:I remember about 10 years ago when Milnor was in the state class B championship at the FargoDome. They ended their season with three losses; one to Fergus Falls Hillcrest, one to Oak Grove, and the final game of the state B to Dickinson Trinity. Anecdotal, probably. But a disproportionate number of private schools advance to state competitions. Coincidence? I don't think so.

Possibly there's no solution, but let's not deny that it exists.

Like I said, I believe they have a slight advantage in the fact that their athletes have so many more opportunities growing up. That is the only thing. It has nothing to do with "talent pool." Once these kids pick a school, they must stay there or face transfer repercussions like any other kid.

I'm not saying they don't have to put in the work. I've seen plenty of kids from private schools that have obviously worked very hard.. I'm saying that by 8th grade most kids know how they are going to progress through the system due to lots of school ball AND traveling ball experience. Some of these kids want to continue to play and have the option to go private where the competition isn't as fierce. I know teachers from Horizon that absolutely confirm this. Now, you may have 50 pretty decent players that play 8th grade ball that know it will be very difficult to continue in class A and of those 50 kids 5-10 decide to go to private school, that is a talent pool that most class B schools don't have. heck, most class B schools can't get enough kids to put a 'c' team together anymore.

How about a separate tournament just for schools the start with the letter W

I seriously think we just leave it at a 2 class system. You have great storied match ups, David vs Goliath stuff. My problem, when talking about 3 class, is how do you do it fairly? Which "A" schools drop and which "B" schools move up? Not trying to be an a$$, just saying that if a 3 class system is inevitable because of "fairness" then all things need to be considered.

Re: The tipping point is coming.

Post by EHS1998 » Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:56 pm
"This may cause a stir, but it really isn't meant to. The only thing I would say for sure is that the privates would need to be in the middle class, at a minimum. The competitive advantage these schools currently have (whether they are taking advantage of it or not), with no district boundaries, is significant. In some states, private schools have to play in their own league so they are playing against teams with the same enrollment rules."

People forget about the state's open enrollment rules. This throws out the theory that private schools have an advantage. I think academics play a bigger role then "game" in determining where to attend school.. I'm more concerned about the end game (Career's) then I am about finishing first or second in a regional tournament! It comes down to priorities.

Like I've always said 25 pts or A Honor Roll?

District 11 #4 seed - Dunsieth defeated WDA #5 seed - Belcourt by 11 points tonight. Anyone wanna bring back the one class system discussion? haha

What would a one class system accomplish? It would just eliminate current Class B teams an opportunity to play in a state tournament.