Need an opinion

Class B Boys
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Need an opinion

Postby sportscrazy » Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:04 pm

Hey guys I just wanted to start out by saying I am a lurker. I read what you guys write normally but don't comment often. Just my nature I guess. I appreciate everyone's point of view so I am looking for opinions. First of I will say I am not, nor would I ever want to be a ref. Thankless job where your going to be on somebodies s*%# list no matter what. That said what does everyone think about the state of basketball in the state. I believe the reffing or lack thereof has gotten out of hand. Games are no longer under control, kids are acting like the over paid pompous asses that they watch on TV. Defense has been replaced with slapping, flopping and hand checking. Offense has become more about drawing the foul, flipping the ball up in the vicinity of the hoop and flopping like a carp out of water, then going up strong and drawing the foul, making the basket and getting three the hard way. I have watched 40+ class B boys and girls games and I can honestly say if the guys and gals in stripes would control the game more the quality of play would improve greatly. I have seen games called tight and fair and the kids adjust. But if you let them get away with it they will continue to try. I cant tell you how many times I have watched kids slide across the floor on their butts after another player runs out on them after a three point attempt with no contact in hpes of drawing the foul. It appears the need by the NDHSAA to keep the games to shorter lengths. Has the Refs looking to just get out of there. I witness 2 occasions this weekend where a foul was called and the ref took off and ran to the scorers table to announce the foul. In the mean time the individuals involved got into a little more extra curricular activity. The ref had his back turned and by the time he heard the crowd reaction he was to late to see what happened. Out of control games benefit no one especially the kids and after all isn't that what high school basketball is supposed to be about? Done ranting. Let me have it if you disagree.
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Re: Need an opinion

Postby The Schwab » Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:28 pm

I know in most cases the Reffing Associations are struggling finding enough guys to officiate, most ref's I've talked with are reffing 12+ games a week so they are bound to get burnt out. I feel the main reason we are struggling to find officials is simple, the guys who are now hanging up the whistle controlled who reffed what games for years, they never wanted to ref with the "new guy" so they always reffed with each other, thus new officials never got any big games so they quit reffing. Now we have a shortage of officials who are overworked and burnt out by tournament time.
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Re: Need an opinion

Postby Hinsa » Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:52 pm

I absolutely liked what the officials were doing at the beginning of the year - calling it tight. Kids did adjust as you say. They had to quit fouling or sit on the bench. Now the games are slipping back into bump and grind as officials have loosened up on the fouls they called early on in the season. I would much rather see a foul called when a foul is commited, regardless of whether any advantage was gained.
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Re: Need an opinion

Postby winner-within » Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:51 pm

I've always said, in Class B ND ball that there is theory some believe in their head, that there is a team that is supposed to win, and a team that will have to fight hard to win, and the refs believe that too sometimes unfortunately IMO........along with that there is simply nothing more frustrating than a game outta control in the physical dept. and the traveling dept. watch the feet, call the fouls and stay in control...an official is (and there are some good ones I love) to the game, like the Principal is to the school, hes there to officiate the rules of the game...he has to be on track with the pace of the game, with the other 2 refs and he has to be confident in his calling ability...I did it, I had my license and I wish my life had the time for it, but it doesn't...I feel you have to Know (inside and out) and love the game that you are officiating...
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Re: Need an opinion

Postby Bison-Vikes #1 » Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:32 pm

Hinsa wrote:I absolutely liked what the officials were doing at the beginning of the year - calling it tight. Kids did adjust as you say. They had to quit fouling or sit on the bench. Now the games are slipping back into bump and grind as officials have loosened up on the fouls they called early on in the season. I would much rather see a foul called when a foul is commited, regardless of whether any advantage was gained.



Watched a game last night officiated by a 3-person crew who do a lot of college games. Very professional crew. The game was officiated fine. The difference was, it resembled a college game. Very physical, literally 10 obvious ("over the back") push from behind on rebounds which went uncalled. Very physical play in the lane and then some lighter fouls called on the perimeter. It was pretty consistent, so no problem there.
The emphasis at the beginning of the year was to tighten up the officiating. This would naturally make for more consistent reffing from one crew to the next. I really don't have a point, just an observation. I still believe that players will adjust to the officials if they remain consistent throughout the game, which this crew did fine at. The only difference is, some teams are going to benefit from this type of physical play and some will not. I too prefer the tighter reffed games. I believe it stops giving an advantage to bigger, more physical teams or teams with deep benches who can foul at will knowing they have a replacement from the bench. Also, it should be easier to ref, as it reduces grey area calls.
But no matter what, if they remain consistent for both sides and throughout the game, I don't have any problems.
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Re: Need an opinion

Postby EHS1998 » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:19 pm

I have talked about this before but the biggest concern I have is the inconstency with which a lot of referees call interior post play, especially when it involves one player who is bigger than another.

I am totally of the opinion that you play defense with your feet and that you need to play vertical in the post and keep your hands up.

But if refs are going to let things go on one end, they have to call it the same way on the other end, regardless of perceived disparities in size or ability. It is not the referees place to try to even the playing field. This happens far too often.

I do think they try to do the best job and appreciate their efforts and by and large they do great jobs. Of all the games I have watched this year, I have only seen 3 games (not all ours) where the result was directly impacted by a referee. Ironically, 2 of which were by a very veteran ref and one by a very new ref. It happens.
Last edited by EHS1998 on Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Need an opinion

Postby classB4ever » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:38 pm

College can recruit players. They play in a conference that the teams are all similar. They recruit speed, size, physicality, finesse, shooters, etc. The coach can sub players into what ever type of game is being called normally.

Class A generally has a large amount of kids going out. The coach has access to a wide range of players to fill out their roster. Much like that of a college coach only on a smaller scale. For the most part, they play in a region that the teams are similar in enrollment and number of players accessible. Therefore, are afforded the luxury of changing up their game style with the players available for them.

Class B is different. In each region, there is generally quite a discrepancy in enrollment size from the top teams to the bottom teams. Also, a coach in smaller schools is dealt his hand with the few players he's got. They don't have the luxury of changing a rotation, due to how the game is being called. Therefore, if a game is being called physical for a coach who has smaller or faster or more finesse type players vs. a school who has big physical players, this now allows the refs to create an advantage for one team over another by the way they call the game.
Consistency of course is imperative. But any time reffing can swing a game by the way it is called, creates an unfair advantage to larger, deeper teams. That's why I think for class b basketball, the points of emphasis at the beginning of the year for tightening up the calls was a good thing and created a more level playing field for all the teams in class b. 2 cents.
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