Mr. Basketball - 2014

[winner-within]

While Jeff was there KU only played in 1 Final Four and that was his senior year, so I don't know what OK st making the final four this year has to do with anything. And for anyone who's mad this has turned into a JB debate I'm sorry.

winner wrote:
"This is why Jeff is/was different than maybe a lot of the young players coming out of ND today

he had a dream"

taken from internet.....Discover how hard work, perseverance, and an unyielding determination to achieve success combined to produce a player who set Big 12 Conference and Kansas Jayhawk three poing shooting records. Jeff Boschee, starter and co-captain of the Kansas Jayhawk team which reached the Final Four in 2002, and writer Mark Horvath (co-author of the book "Floor Burns") reveal the personal life of one of KU's most prolific scorers. Follow Boschee from his days of youth basketball through high school success with his friends from Valley City, North Dakota. Learn what it was like to be a two-time state Player of the Year, to garner the fame of becoming the only player in North Dakota sports history to be a McDonald's All-American, yet try and live a normal teenage life.

winner wrote:
"this guy is a a special athlete also, guys like Wiggins in the 80's and 90's were playing the 3, 4 and 5 spot....now they are playing 1 and 2.....this makes it hard to play a KU caliber college in the days of now... 2013-14"

taken from internet....Wiggins could be one of the first picks in this year’s N.B.A. draft, but he already plays with the expressionless bearing of a 10-year professional with his fourth team. No gestures after hitting a 3-pointer. No posturing after blocking a shot. And no chest-bumping celebrations, at least not until Kansas (24-9) has something tangible to celebrate.

[The Schwab]

And what does that have to do with anything???

[winner-within]

And what does that have to do with anything???

KU's sights in today's game wouldn't be on a Boschee to run the team at point....he could definitely do what Forte is doing for Oklahmoa St though

[The Schwab]

And what does that have to do with anything???

KU's sights in today's game wouldn't be on a Boschee to run the team at point....he could definitely do what Forte is doing for Oklahmoa St though

So Kansas is playing a different style of basketball, doesn't mean he wouldn't play at a high level D-1. I think Kansas fans would actually love the style they could play with a player of JB's caliber to pair with this years squad. JMO

[packers21]

My 2 cents

Kretchman is a great player and probably a good fit at MSUM. He however isn't in the same convo as Boschee. Also no I don't think KU would recruit Boschee right now, I do think that UNC would.

[winner-within]

Roy would do it all over again?...lol..

[classB4ever]

My 2 cents

Kretchman is a great player and probably a good fit at MSUM. He however isn't in the same convo as Boschee. Also no I don't think KU would recruit Boschee right now, I do think that UNC would.

Why?
A lot of people are saying no comparison, but won't explain WHY they think Boschee is so much better. Give some evidence to back up your opinion.
1. Overall Offense.
2. Shooting.
3. Defense.
4. Ball Handling.
5. Rebounding.
6. Court Awareness.
7. Physicality.
8. Speed/Quickness.
9. Jumping.
10. Team Player/Leadership
Here's 10 categories. How would you grade Boschee & Kretchman in each of them?

[noles4ever]

I had the pleasure of being around Valley City during the time that Jeff was going through high school and I stuck around in the summers a couple years. Boschee was special. And when I say special I don't mean first team all-state special, i mean once in a generation special. Even other kids that have come out of ND and gone on to sign with D-1 schools, none of them achieved the same level of accomplishment as Jeff. The reasons I think this is true:
Jeff was humble, he was one of the nicest kids you could ever want to be around. Arrogant would have been the absolute last word a person would have used to describe the kid.
Jeff was a perfectionist when it came to working out and working on his game, we played a lot of noon ball and there were some NAIA all-american level athletes from both football and basketball teams at VCSU that played regularly and none could guard him, the only one I ever saw that could even come close to staying with him was his brother Mike when he was home and playing and working out with him.
An added not: Jeff would be off to the side working on different aspects of his game, ball handling, passing, fundamental stuff, and we would need a fourth or fifth player, he wouldn't come in until he was done with his workout, even as a ninth and tenth grader, and all of the college kids and adults there respected that, he wasn't being a jerk, he had a dream and he was working to get there.
Jeff could flat out stroke it, saw him drain 17 in a row from beyond the arc at his senior year midnight madness thing they did, it was unreal. It seemed like he was always on, sure he missed, but even his misses seemed like they were on, he never missed badly, maybe by a few inches but it was always right there.
Jeff stepped in to the perfect situation at Kansas. They were stacked and his niche was perfect for his game. He was the perfect compliment to the other players Williams had assembled at that time.
Jeff was smart, I don't know if I have run into many people around the game of basketball that had the basketball IQ he possessed. A lot of that came from working with his brother Mike who was a sharp shooter for the great UND teams that had vonesh and Guldseth, and Gardner. Jeff really listened to Mike and Mike was an unreal resource for his development.
Jeff was not a one trick pony. He was not just a pure shooter or a pure scorer, he was such a well-rounded player that worked hard on making his entire game better. Just watching the guy play in a pick up game was fun, you knew you were seeing someone very special.
I don't think it is fair to compare anyone to Jeff Boschee, its neither fair to Jeff because of what he accomplished and how he got there nor is it fair to try to stack up anyone against the monumental task of being measured against a generational player like Jeff Boschee.
Just my opinion I guess.

[winner-within]

My 2 cents

Kretchman is a great player and probably a good fit at MSUM. He however isn't in the same convo as Boschee. Also no I don't think KU would recruit Boschee right now, I do think that UNC would.

Why?
A lot of people are saying no comparison, but won't explain WHY they think Boschee is so much better. Give some evidence to back up your opinion.
1. Overall Offense.
2. Shooting.
3. Defense.
4. Ball Handling.
5. Rebounding.
6. Court Awareness.
7. Physicality.
8. Speed/Quickness.
9. Jumping.
10. Team Player/Leadership
Here's 10 categories. How would you grade Boschee & Kretchman in each of them?

I really dont think its about 10 categories....I would go on to say exposure today is better than it was in the late nineties so if there is a standout player in any of the 50 states well then media will catch up to them.....The McDonald's All-American Game is the most prestigious of the high school All-American games....and JB played in it....I would go on to say that a Hunter Berg or even a Mack Arvidson is Kretchman caliber

[The Schwab]

I can't comment on all of those areas because I haven't seen Kretchman play all that much, but I can give some facts from people who get paid to scout and rank players. Jeff Boschee was ranked 40 by RSCI (I use this because ESPN doesn't have data going back that far) in 1998, ranking ahead of 14 high school seniors who were drafted after playing in college. Tanner Kretchman isn't even mentioned on ESPNs Recruiting database, in fact only 1 player from ND/SD is and he signed with South Dakota.

[classB4ever]

All good responses. I watched Jeff grow up and played against Mike a time or two. I have my own opinions, and they are in line with what you 3 have said. Just kind of bothers me when someone makes a statement but doesn't give any reason or evidence to back it up.

[winner-within]

All good responses. I watched Jeff grow up and played against Mike a time or two. I have my own opinions, and they are in line with what you 3 have said. Just kind of bothers me when someone makes a statement but doesn't give any reason or evidence to back it up.

I do know that my opinion on JB (was at a pile of Mikes games at UND) are based on his college days
and its not that he wasn't the real deal its just a situation for me that he was a half step behind the real real good ones, which puts me to believe it would be that much harder today....its just my observation/opinion.... I watched a lot of his college games.

[noles4ever]

My question then for you winner is: where do Jeff's stats and records sit today compared to the players that have played since. If what you say is true, than all of his records and accomplishments should have moved way down the list on Kansas' all time leaders and those of the conference, is this true?
If the game has really passed everyone of yesteryear by, and all who played in the past then the record books should be rewritten every 5-10 years or so, right?

[noles4ever]

Your answer:
3's in a game 3rd
3's in a season 2nd in 2002 when he shot 46.4% on 3's
3's in a career 1st with 338
Steals career 10th
Assists per game 13th
Assists career 10th
Pts for career 13th

From the Kansas record book

[ndlionsfan]

Your answer:
3's in a game 3rd
3's in a season 2nd in 2002 when he shot 46.4% on 3's
3's in a career 1st with 338
Steals career 10th
Assists per game 13th
Assists career 10th
Pts for career 13th

From the Kansas record book

Most kids don't stick around more than 1-2 years anymore to break any records either.

[winner-within]

My question then for you winner is: where do Jeff's stats and records sit today compared to the players that have played since. If what you say is true, than all of his records and accomplishments should have moved way down the list on Kansas' all time leaders and those of the conference, is this true?
If the game has really passed everyone of yesteryear by, and all who played in the past then the record books should be rewritten every 5-10 years or so, right?

opinions are not truth but thanks for trying....Stats? stats are truth and JB's are solid.....my assumptions are an Inkling or a vague notion based on my feel for the sport I love most....its like when I say Fridje will make sure they (L-E) are going to Fargo if her team gets to the Region ship, it was an Inkling.

[noles4ever]

But he has 3's in a season (2nd) and 3's in a game (3rd)

[Flip]

I can't comment on all of those areas because I haven't seen Kretchman play all that much, but I can give some facts from people who get paid to scout and rank players. Jeff Boschee was ranked 40 by RSCI (I use this because ESPN doesn't have data going back that far) in 1998, ranking ahead of 14 high school seniors who were drafted after playing in college. Tanner Kretchman isn't even mentioned on ESPNs Recruiting database, in fact only 1 player from ND/SD is and he signed with South Dakota.

I saw that too. Granted this was 15+ years ago, but remember getting The Sporting News, back when it was made out of newspaper, and they would give the top 25 HS PG rankings and top XX overall rankings. I want to say Boschee was the #2 PG and #7 overall in those rankings. As for if he would specifically be recruited by Kansas? I don't think anyone can know, but he would definitely have a pick of high D1 programs to choose from.

All good responses. I watched Jeff grow up and played against Mike a time or two. I have my own opinions, and they are in line with what you 3 have said. Just kind of bothers me when someone makes a statement but doesn't give any reason or evidence to back it up.

I can't say I've seen either play enough to give you a concrete answer, but the level at which they were recruited is just so far apart I think you can very easily say which was better. I would guess if they had advanced stats for Class A basketball, like they don on Basketball Reference, Boschee would dominate.

[Flip]

Adding on to what others have said I think Boschee finished his career with the most 3 pointers made in the history of the Big 12.

[packers21]

Adding on to what others have said I think Boschee finished his career with the most 3 pointers made in the history of the Big 12.

When he graduated he had 338, which was number one. It was broken by AJ Abrams. Not sure if anyone else has past him since.

[classB4ever]

I have mixed emotions on this and will tell you why. A lot of us believe that our own "era" of basketball from the past was the best. Not sure if we really give enough credit to how quick and how good some of these kids really are. Kind of like looking in the mirror every day at yourself. You don't realize how much you've changed until someone that hasn't seen you for years says, "wow" you've changed. You really don't have any idea how good these kids have gotten unless you have had a chance to be on the floor competing against them throughout each of the generations. All are getting bigger/faster/stronger and better together, so it's hard to really compare one generation to the next.
There have been some great ball players in ND and they stand out in our state because we don't have the competition level of other states. You have the really good ones, and then you have the great ones. I think we all know the difference. Jeff was special. He had that "it" factor. I don't know that I would agree with "he was better because he worked harder, or because he put in more time" than others, because nobody can say that. Nobody knows how much time each of these players dedicates to their sport. I think Tanner is a special player. When someone can take over a tournament like he did, it reminds me directly of Jeff. Very similar. Is he at the same level? Maybe not. But it sure is fun to watch and talk about the good ones when they come along.

[winner-within]

Your answer:
3's in a game 3rd
3's in a season 2nd in 2002 when he shot 46.4% on 3's
3's in a career 1st with 338
Steals career 10th
Assists per game 13th
Assists career 10th
Pts for career 13th

From the Kansas record book

those are solid numbers.......playing 4 years helps too....his most impressive stat is the 338 3's although he had a huge green light...
I watched his teammate (Hinrich) play the Thunder last night...something like 11 years in the NBA.........

one of the stats I base my assumption (JB dont go to KU today) is from 1985 to 2000 KU produced 16 NBA'ers
from 2000 to 2014 (one year less) they have already produced 22 with probably 2 to 3 more by next spring and 18 of those after JB's senior year....

[ndlionsfan]

But he has 3's in a season (2nd) and 3's in a game (3rd)

For the most part, shooting not cool these days. Kids are much more athletic and play at the rim and that's what coaches recruit. Force them to play 15 feet out and their shots are horrible. Very few pure shooters around now days. Boschee was a stud and did a lot of great things at Kansas. Probably the best player to come out of ND. But the game has changed a lot even in 10 short years and I doubt a top program out of the "big six" conferences would recruit him today. He could definitely lead a mid major powerhouse or a middle of the pack team in one of the big sixes, though.

[NDbballFan22]

Just stop. Kretchman is awesome, but if you're saying he's even in the same class as JB then you're basically saying late 90s KU is similar to going to MSUM today.

[winner-within]

But he has 3's in a season (2nd) and 3's in a game (3rd)

For the most part, shooting not cool these days. Kids are much more athletic and play at the rim and that's what coaches recruit. Force them to play 15 feet out and their shots are horrible. Very few pure shooters around now days. Boschee was a stud and did a lot of great things at Kansas. Probably the best player to come out of ND. But the game has changed a lot even in 10 short years and I doubt a top program out of the "big six" conferences would recruit him today. He could definitely lead a mid major powerhouse or a middle of the pack team in one of the big sixes, though.

I've researched some of this too...and yes a lot of the green lights have turned to yellow and sometimes red...but there is still some big time casting going on at times....wait till the Dance starts and you'll see it kick in......we saw it at the Alerus, we saw it in Minot and we will see it in the Dance especially from the sweet 16 down........ ...gotta love MARCH!!