NDHSAA Rule changes

[vb4life]

Finally a couple of rule changes that make sense. Just heard on the radio today that the Boys and Girls seasons are going to go back to the way they had always been in the past. And from now on the state tournament will be seeded, not sure how they are going to decide that or if that one will be a good one yet.

[packers21]

I thought they were just going to seed the state baseball not every tournament

[Flip]

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id ... up/Sports/

when I first read OP I thought he/she meant girls BB was going back to the fall

[Run4Fun2009]

I thought they were just going to seed the state baseball not every tournament

The board voted 5-4 to approve the seeding of the Class B basketball, volleyball and baseball tournaments for the 2013-14 season.

The seeding procedure for those tournaments will be determined by the NDHSAA staff and will be proposed to the board for approval today.

[ndlionsfan]

Interesting. I never thought either of these changes would happen. Will definitely be nice to see the seasons flip flopped and the seeding of the tournaments should add a lot of discussion and following.

[classB4ever]

So, the 8 coaches of the state tournament teams will rank each team. The high and low votes for each team will be thrown out. From these results the top 4 teams will be seeded 1 - 4. There will then be a drawing. No. 1 draws first, 2 - 2nd, 3 - 3rd and 4 - 4th. The 2nd and 3rd seeded teams play in the afternoon and the 1st and 4th seeded teams play in the evening. Is this correct?

[ninja_joe]

This procedure of seeding the state tourney sounds rather shaky to me. The coaches of the teams that make the state B have enough things to worry about that week. You are telling me Region 1 is going to know all about Region 8? The only idea Regions will likely have are of neighboring Regions. Other than that, they are pretty much going on hear say & probably the sportscasters poll (which usually turns out quite wrong come state tournament time).

Better off establishing a 5 person panel at the start of the Class B season (not media either...biased to their coverage area). Panel's job is simply to collect info on the teams throughout the season. Evaluate the post season carefully & leave it up to them to seed the state tourney. And do it as quickly as possible once the regionals are done so it allows the teams involved to game plan for the teams in their brackets.

[Flip]

This sounds exactly what MN used to do, now they seed 1-5 instead of 1-4.

I don't like the idea of coaches voting. Lets say it's obvious 2 teams are the 4th and 5th best teams in the tournament, but which one is 4th is kind of a toss up. What is stopping these 2 coaches from voting the other 8th?

Also, seed the whole thing 1-8. Who cares if some feelings get hurt I hate seeing the 1 seed barely beating the best unseeded team and the 4th seed draws the worst team in the tournament.

[Run4Fun2009]

The coaches voting does throw up a potential risk as many have already posted about...I do like ninja_joe's idea of a panel of people to do the seeding. You get a good 3 to 5 person panel and there would be nothing to worry about.

This is pretty much a knock-off of what Minnesota used to do...I guess the NDHSAA is a follower instead of trying to make something their own...

[ndlionsfan]

Another disadvantage to seeding is say for instance at the beginning of the season (or even well before that) coaches know that Region 4 plays Region 1 in the first round of state. If you're a coach on one of the top teams in this region and theres a good chance you could make state, you have the opportunity to schedule time to scout top teams in the other region to help if the matchup does occur at state. You could also get a top team on the schedule from that region to play head to head if known in advance or go to a common team camp during the summer.

[Flip]

Interesting. I never thought either of these changes would happen. Will definitely be nice to see the seasons flip flopped and the seeding of the tournaments should add a lot of discussion and following.

This is so true. Just wait until you see some upsets in the state tournament.

[winner-within]

There were 3 upsets in a row this past State Tourney....Milnor would have been a 6th or 7th seed, had the coaches voted maybe even 8th

[Wildcat]

This procedure of seeding the state tourney sounds rather shaky to me. The coaches of the teams that make the state B have enough things to worry about that week. You are telling me Region 1 is going to know all about Region 8? The only idea Regions will likely have are of neighboring Regions. Other than that, they are pretty much going on hear say & probably the sportscasters poll (which usually turns out quite wrong come state tournament time).

Better off establishing a 5 person panel at the start of the Class B season (not media either...biased to their coverage area). Panel's job is simply to collect info on the teams throughout the season. Evaluate the post season carefully & leave it up to them to seed the state tourney. And do it as quickly as possible once the regionals are done so it allows the teams involved to game plan for the teams in their brackets.

1) Who would pay this panel? Who would pay for all of their road trips to and from games? It's fun to pretend that someone will volunteer, but if they have to travel to see games, where's that money coming from?

2) You want to find five people who know enough about basketball in this state, but don't have any allegiances to anyone? Or any region? Or any particular coach?

3) This system of selection ... What would be the critera? They just go off the cuff and choose teams? Is there a ranking they use or some sort of explanation they can give that forces them to be transparent? Or even without full transparency (which the seeding meeting to come probably won't have), is there any way for us to know that they actually know what they're talking about instead of assuming? Any kind of tangible rankings or reasoning that could tell us why they chose that way? Or would it be, "Uhhh, yeah, I saw Trinity play. They're good. Looks like No. 1 to me."

Above all else with something like this is the logistics. These people would need their expenses covered at the very least. The NDHSAA can very well afford it, but I wouldn't expect the schools to ever want to pay for it.

[justplayalready]

I agree with winners post...what would have last years seeds looked like??? I thought it was a good tourney they way it was...

I see it a slippery slope. Are they trying to get the "best" four teams in the semis??? Will the try to get the "best" eight teams in the tourney next??? Without any good number of head to head between multiple regions I do not see any way to accurately get a seeding...Just one more thing to complain about if they don't agree with seedings after the fact. I see the rotating region seedings the best way to go...

Last year if you reseeded and played it eight times you would have 4-6 different winners IMHO, that was with a set seeding, I can just imagine the complaints about seedings unless you use a fixed system ex:records and a set tiebreaker

[maddog1971]

Changing the girls and boys... fine... I don't care but the seeding.... wow that is crazy. If you want to be the best then beat the best. It makes no sense and coaches voting...... they will be voting to best suit their needs.
I say just leave it like it was and let the cream of the crop rise to the top. If they want to put a tournament on for the top teams the media feels in State.... do it before the end of the year and get the crowd and match ups you want.

[sportsfan25]

The switching of the seasons is a good thing, in my opinion. Seems to be strong support in that direction and I think ND HS sports is best served having the Boys' B as the cap to the winter season.

As far as seeding, can't say I have really strong feelings either way on this, but I have a couple of questions I'd like to hear opinions on. First, do you think the seeding, although it has come up in the past, was pushed to the forefront due to last year's tourney? The fact that people saw Milnor as the 6th-8th best team and they won it all have that big of an impact? Then second, how crooked and pessimistic of a view of coaches do you have??!? Seriously, multiple coaches at state ranking the best teams out of the top 4 just to better thier own possibility of winning? I mean the fact they are throwing out the highest and lowest ranking already takes care of if there's 1 ridiculous coach that actually does that. Plus, I doubt coaches will rank their own team. Tournaments I've seen have coaches rank the other 7 teams and go from there. Hopefully NDHSAA is doing that to take care of someone thinking too highly of their own team.

I don't know, I guess I think people get on here and in a certain mindset and sometimes lose track of reality. Take a deep breath (those of you who really think coaches doing the seeding is that big of a deal) and tell me if you really think coaches, as a group, are so underhanded they won't rank as best they can with the information they have.

Oh, and on a side note, I also like the idea of ranking 1-5 so that u have a more accurate 4-5 matchup in the first round. Never heard of it before, but I like it. JMHO.

[Flip]

MN has some sections that vote on seeding and in my experience coaches give an honest effort. If I've seen votes that didn't make sense I've always put that in the stupidity category, not that they were trying to screw someone. After the seeds are out the voting coaches do get to see how the other coaches voted so their is some accountability.

[Sportsrube]

Another benefit to switching so the girls start first is that maybe they can get the State Class B Boys tournament back in Bismarck. I have always thought that the Civic Center was the best place to host a state BB tournament. This could also set up a rotation between Minot and Bismarck for the State Class B and get it out of the Alerus and the Fargo Dome which I feel are both second rate compared to the Civic Center and the Minot Dome when it comes to hosting bb tournaments.

[Indy5]

After the seeds are out the voting coaches do get to see how the other coaches voted so their is some accountability.

This needs to be done for sure.

[winner-within]

The only way to remove bias is to remove the human element. Come up with a formula that makes sense, and stick to it.

Thats Heavy Stuff.....but its true....

I would never compare Higher Ed of lately to NDHSAA of lately ......or maybe I would

[YMCMB]

Why not base seedings based off of season record? It would make the regular season mean a little more to do so. If teams end up with the same record well then go off of a season matchup and put the winner of the season game the higher seed. If they didnt play each other in the regular season then flip a coin.

[Flip]

Why not base seedings based off of season record? It would make the regular season mean a little more to do so. If teams end up with the same record well then go off of a season matchup and put the winner of the season game the higher seed. If they didnt play each other in the regular season then flip a coin.

SOS LDO

[4thegame]

Why not base seedings based off of season record? It would make the regular season mean a little more to do so. If teams end up with the same record well then go off of a season matchup and put the winner of the season game the higher seed. If they didnt play each other in the regular season then flip a coin.

u cant use regular season record because some districts and regions are more evenly matched. And rankings dont account for team matchups.

[heimer]

We have some real tin-hat fear mongers in here. "Oh no, they have made a CHANGE to our institution that's more sacred than the crucifixion or the Declaration of Independence, our beloved B tourney."

Please.

First, your theories of some vast conspiracy are in direct conflict with EVERYTHING EVER STATED ON THIS BAORD EVER EVER. Here are the highlights.

"Only the best can win regional titles."

"The B tournament is way more balanced than A."

"That's the beauty of B. Anyone can win it any year."

So assuming all of this is true (just threw up a little bit in my mouth), what's the problem with seeding? Gotta beat them all anyway. Seeds would not have kept Milnor out of the tournament, and seeds would not have kept them from winning it.

Not to mention that EVERY OTHER TOURNAMENT IN THE STATE FOR ANY SPORT BUT B STATE BASKETBALL AND VOLLEYBALL has been seeded. B districts and regionals are seeded. A everything is seeded. All football playoffs are seeded. Wrestling is seeded, both classes, both duals and individuals. Tennis is seeded. Even track is seeded.

But no, all the other sports have it wrong. Only the precious body and blood of our lord and savior, B boys state, has it right.

Riiiiiight.

So lets find a five-member panel of independent experts because coaches can't be trusted. Because we all know that coaches live for putting the screws to each other. Alex, I'll take people that take their March get-together way too seriously for, oh, I don't know, cash equal to the national debt please.

The seeds may or may not improve the tourney. They will add a bit of a story line, which never hurts for fans and spectators alike. I applaud the NDHSAA for trying something new, it's not often the BOD can leave Leave It to Beaver or Elvis' early gospel stuff behind. We need more people with that kind of bravery...........to post.......on northdakotapreps.com. Man, we could end up with..........well, lets start with tournament seeds.

[ndlionsfan]

Welcome back heimer. I have no problem with the seeding of the tourneys and will be interesting how it goes. But yet again your argument contains points that aren't comparable. Yes districts and regions are seeded, but they are based on season records and place finishes. Same with everything in A. Track is based on times and distances which are concrete. Te only thing you have similar is wrestling. The class b tourney seedings will be based on opinions with no concrete way to prove accuracy. Again, I have no problem with seeing how it goes but I'm sure there will still be the same number of people arguing who plays who as there was in the old system.