Broken

Class B Boys
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Re: Broken

Postby ndlionsfan » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:04 am

Xfactor wrote:I've always been in favor of the current system because I love the excitement involved with it, but because of the lack of talent around the state I wish we would have a 4 region system. It's unfortunate that the best teams aren't always in state but that's just how it works. However, in the past there's always been good teams in the state tournament no matter who wins the regions, but as someone previously stated, this state tournament will be awful to watch because most of the teams are so bad. I'm not trying to take anything away from them, but I love watching the State B so I want there to be decent competition.


How can you even make this statement? Almost every team in there right now was ranked in the top 10 at the end of the season and throughout most of the season. You make it seem like there was only 3-4 good teams in the entire state.
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Re: Broken

Postby old#63 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:03 am

NDplayin wrote:
old#63 wrote:Tough luck, Chuck. I've watch lots of great teams from Region 2 stay home for years. And now just because it's some other region's turn, "The system is broken". :roll: The system is fine. Play ball.

Check my history, I've always advocated 4 regions. This isn't new for me... Just an over abundance of obvious evidence this year. The system is broken no matter which of the 8 Regions it hurts

We'll just have to disagree, NDplayin. My attitude is that the state tourney isn't about finding the best 8 in the state. I think it's about regional representation, and it always has been. For me, and I think for many, it's about having a representative team from your local area get there. I'm a Grafton/St Thomas fan. Was I hoping that we could have won last night and went? You bet. But we lost, so you know what? I just turned into a Cavalier fan. I hope they go to state and do R2 proud. Are North Star, Beulah, and Oak Grove better teams than Cavalier?.....probably. But are North Star, Beulah, and Oak Grove teams that I have a personal feel for, or that I have a rivalry with, or have a history with? No. But I have a personal feel for Cavalier, and a rivalry, and a history. So that makes it interesting to me to watch them go to state and see how they do. That's the feel of the class B tourney..... that's what we lose if we change the system.
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Re: Broken

Postby NorthDakota11 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:15 am

This point may have already been made so I apologize before hand if it has, I don't have time to go through all of the replies due to my work schedule.

This system is FAR from broken!

Anyone who was in Dickinson last night for the Region 7 Championship I think would agree.

Why in God's Holy Name would you want to take away from the Atmosphere that was in gyms across the state last night. The KofC activities center was over capacity 2500-2600 people and they had to turn some people away! This never happens if we go to a system where the top two teams go from a region. The region championship game becomes on par with the 3rd and 4th place games we all watched last night.

So a region has two of the top teams in the state and one of them doesn't make state... thats called LIFE! This is why I love high school athletics, they teach kids and prepare them for how real life works

You don't show up for work... you go home, you don't preform... you go home, you don't prepare enough... you go home!

Just because they are one of the top teams in the state doesn't mean they deserve a second chance. They had their chance and blew it. North Star and Beulah had great seasons but didn't show up when they needed to... so they went home... Case closed.

p.s. I would be open to the idea of choking back to 7 regions and having coaches vote on two teams to play in a "play-in game" that would decide 8th team in the state tournament. But I'm only open to this if we are FORCED to go to 7 regions because of lack of teams. You have to have a 8 team state tourney.
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"Because I couldn't go for three..." - Woody Hayes
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Re: Broken

Postby Bisonguy06 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:57 am

I will go back to my previous comment.

Take a deck of cards and put the four aces at the top of the deck. The aces are going to make it to the state tournament no matter how we draw up the bracket.

What we're arguing about here is simply how to shuffle the rest of the deck to determine the teams that will ultimately get trumped by the aces anyway.

Keep in mind - you could move to four regions and still end up with the exact same tournament field that you would have had in the eight region system.
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Re: Broken

Postby packers21 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:59 am

So far this years tournament features 7 new teams, if garrison pulls a upset tonight that would be 8 completly different teams from a year ago.
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Re: Broken

Postby Bisonguy06 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:06 pm

Great point packers21,

Every year we seem to hear that the small class B schools are getting squeezed out of the state tournament and that it's the same teams competing over and over again.

Well... Milnor, Cavalier, LaMoure-LM, Four Winds, and Trenton are all small class B schools at this year's state tournament, and as Packers pointed out, we nearly have a completely new tournament field.
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Re: Broken

Postby The Schwab » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:33 pm

Enrollment for State Tournament Teams: And I don't want to hear that my numbers are wrong, I got them off of the NDHSAA membership list for this year, these will be the enrollment numbers (Average times 4) that will be in the booklet for the state tournament.

Region 1- Milnor- 84 (7-12) 14 students per grade

Region 2- Cavalier- 111 (9-12) 27.75 students per grade

Region 3- LaMoure/LM- 87 (9-12)/ 63 (9-12) 21.75 students per grade/15.75 students per grade 37.5 students per grade

Region 4- Four Winds-Minnewauken- 134 (9-12)/ 57 (7-12) 33.5/9.5= 43 students per grade

Region 5- Shiloh 90 (9-12)/Garrison 109 (9-12) 22.5 students per grade/27.25 students per grade

Region 6- Rugby 286 (7-12) 47.67 students per grade

Region 7- Dickinson Trinity 245 (7-12)-40.84 students per grade

Region 8- Trenton 65 (9-12)- 16.25 students per grade
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Re: Broken

Postby ndlionsfan » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:39 pm

Got to add in Litchville-Marion for Lamoure Schwabby.... :wink:
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Re: Broken

Postby The Schwab » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:45 pm

forgot about that, fixed it
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Re: Broken

Postby 4thegame » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:54 pm

its a tournament.
Win the game infront of you.
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Re: Broken

Postby Flip » Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:10 pm

Bisonguy06 wrote:Well... Milnor, Cavalier, LaMoure-LM, Four Winds, and Trenton are all small class B schools at this year's state tournament, and as Packers pointed out, we nearly have a completely new tournament field.

Trenton and Milnor are the only small schools imo.
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Re: Broken

Postby winner-within » Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:20 pm

Flip wrote:
Bisonguy06 wrote:Well... Milnor, Cavalier, LaMoure-LM, Four Winds, and Trenton are all small class B schools at this year's state tournament, and as Packers pointed out, we nearly have a completely new tournament field.

Trenton and Milnor are the only small schools imo.


I agree, yet still no need to cater to any of them or schools of the like, and have a 3erd class.......just believe and play
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Re: Broken

Postby irisheel » Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:27 pm

packers21 wrote:So far this years tournament features 7 new teams, if garrison pulls a upset tonight that would be 8 completly different teams from a year ago.



I love this comment!! This is why the "B" is the best in the land! IMO!
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Re: Broken

Postby vb4life » Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:43 pm

I would consider LaMoure LM one of these small schools, the numbers are deceiving as the majority of the enrollment 9-12 is made up of girls, the boy enrollment is way down and they only received 1 boy from the coop. Glad to see the true Class B teams representing at state, should be a great tournament.
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Re: Broken

Postby old#63 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:49 pm

winner-within wrote:
Flip wrote:
Bisonguy06 wrote:Well... Milnor, Cavalier, LaMoure-LM, Four Winds, and Trenton are all small class B schools at this year's state tournament, and as Packers pointed out, we nearly have a completely new tournament field.

Trenton and Milnor are the only small schools imo.


I agree, yet still no need to cater to any of them or schools of the like, and have a 3erd class.......just believe and play

Winner and Flip, among the 13 teams in R2, Cavalier is number 10 in enrollment. Only DVE, GCC, and DP have smaller enrollments. (Based on NDHSAA enrollment numbers) So, it begs the question, if Cavalier isn't to be considered a small school, what is the criteria?
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Re: Broken

Postby Bisonguy06 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:56 pm

Call these schools small or medium sized, whatever you'd like, but they aren't the big bad boys of class B basketball that the three class system folks have in mind.

"Cavalier, LaMoure, and Four Winds made the state tournament! More evidence that we need a 3 class system in North Dakota!" - said no one ever.
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Re: Broken

Postby The Schwab » Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:51 pm

I would say if you have under 20 kids in a class you're a small school, 25-35 you're a medium size school, more than 40 you're a big school (with a 5 kid per class buffer zone between each classification) again as before this is all just my opinion.
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Re: Broken

Postby vb4life » Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:04 pm

The Schwab wrote:Enrollment for State Tournament Teams: And I don't want to hear that my numbers are wrong, I got them off of the NDHSAA membership list for this year, these will be the enrollment numbers (Average times 4) that will be in the booklet for the state tournament.

Region 1- Milnor- 84 (7-12) 14 students per grade

Region 2- Cavalier- 111 (9-12) 27.75 students per grade

Region 3- LaMoure/LM- 87 (9-12)/ 63 (9-12) 21.75 students per grade/15.75 students per grade [b]37.5 students per grade[/b]

Region 4- Four Winds-Minnewauken- 134 (9-12)/ 57 (7-12) 33.5/9.5= 43 students per grade

Region 5- Shiloh 90 (9-12)/Garrison 109 (9-12) 22.5 students per grade/27.25 students per grade

Region 6- Rugby 286 (7-12) 47.67 students per grade

Region 7- Dickinson Trinity 245 (7-12)-40.84 students per grade

Region 8- Trenton 65 (9-12)- 16.25 students per grade


I thought those LLM numbers looked off, after checking out the dpi.state.nd site I come up with 96 students for LaMoure which would be 24/class and 44 students 9-12 for Litchville Marion which would be 11/class. Not much of a difference but 63 seemed like a really high number for Litchville Marion as their enrollment is dying and in the next few years those numbers will continue to go down.
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Re: Broken

Postby kingjames101 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:15 pm

old#63 wrote:Tough luck, Chuck. I've watch lots of great teams from Region 2 stay home for years. And now just because it's some other region's turn, "The system is broken". :roll: The system is fine. Play ball.


Exactly!!!!!
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Re: Broken

Postby larrybird33 » Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:44 am

I think this thread began with the assumption that Beulah, North Star, Trinity and Four Winds were the clear cut, top four teams in the state in some order, with a significant gap between them and the rest of the field.

First of all, if it's true that the four best teams are from two regions, this year would be the exception, not the rule.

Have we overlooked Trenton, Rugby, Cavalier, Milnor, LaMoure, and Shiloh as contenders, or are they a notch below the favorites? We'll find out. It's a bit premature to count them out.

Rugby has a couple blue-chippers in Lovcik and Heidelbaugh.
Shiloh has plenty of tradition.
Trenton just won their regional title game by 52 points. LaMoure won their region handily as well. Both come in with only two losses.
Cavalier and Milnor knocked off a couple bigs (Grafton and Oak Grove, respectively) to get here.

I think we're in for another great tournament.
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Re: Broken

Postby wolves65 » Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:06 pm

I think the thread got started by someone who thought their team was second best in their region but was better than some other regions! If that is the case then is the second place trophy from the State B that much better than the second place trophy from region? Good luck to all the teams in the State B.
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Re: Broken

Postby Bisonguy06 » Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:40 pm

I jumped over to the class A boys page and found a thread with lots of speculation about what class A (and class B, by extension) will look like by 2020-2025.

Will class B continue to lose schools and teams at the bottom (closing & consolidation) and at the top as well (enrollment growth into class A)?

Will there be any gains? I read that District 8 in the rural Williston area will be adding a high school. Will there be any others? Will co-ops dissolve if partner schools gain the numbers to field separate teams? Will co-ops dissolve to avoid crossing the 325 student threshold into class A?

Will we see another push for three classes? If so, when?
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Re: Broken

Postby Bisonguy06 » Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:43 pm

Here's what I'm asking - what have you heard about school enrollment/consolodation/co-op in the next 1-3 years?
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Re: Broken

Postby ndlionsfan » Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:35 pm

I have heard that midkota has approached many area schools about a coop for next season. Have also heard rumors of rolette going with rolla and DP going w Lakota. Haven't heard anything about Munich-stark but can't see them holding on for too many more years. If midkota, RW, and MS cooped in the next few years region 4 would be down to 11 teams. On the flip side have also heard rumors of minnewaukan fielding their own team in the future.
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Re: Broken

Postby HONKER » Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:24 pm

ndlionsfan wrote:I have heard that midkota has approached many area schools about a coop for next season. Have also heard rumors of rolette going with rolla and DP going w Lakota. Haven't heard anything about Munich-stark but can't see them holding on for too many more years. On the flip side have also heard rumors of minnewaukan fielding their own team in the future.

With a new school and a new gym, I sure hope it's not just a practice facility for Four winds.
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