New idea

[Bisonguy06]

There has been a lot of talk about what to do with the district and regional tournaments in class B basketball, given the dwindling number of schools in some districts.

Here's a new idea.

Dissolve one of the eight regions and re-draw all schools/teams into 14 districts and 7 regions. Send the 7 regional champs to the state tournament, plus an 8th team to-be-determined (I'll give you my idea here later).

I would have to look at the math, but I think all 14 districts would have 8 teams in them. At worst, you'd have a couple districts with 7 teams. I really, really believe North Dakota has to look at re-districting. We currently have some districts with 5 teams and others with 8. To put it simply, the current imbalance just doesn't make sense and it isn't fair to our student-athletes.

I would have to look at the math, but I think all 7 regions would have 16 teams in them. At worst, you'd have a couple regions with 15 teams.

Your district tournaments would be healthy, 8 team tournaments with 4 teams advancing to regionals. They'd be competitive tournaments again, and it would mean more to make it to the regional tournament.

The 7 regional tournaments would be competitive as ever.

Now... we need an 8th team to round out the field at the state tournament. I've thought of a few different ways to award that 8th team, but my best idea is to award two state berths to the region that won the state championship the year before. In other words, if Region 1 wins this year's state tournament, Region 1 gets to send its champion and runner-up in the following year.

Why do I like this idea? It adds more of a regional rooting interest in the state tournament. If your region's champion wins the state tournament, it gives your school a better chance to make it to state in the following year!

I'm sure there are ways to poke holes in this idea, so go ahead and let me know where I've gone wrong. Is this better than what we have now, or not?

[Flip]

Cut it down to 6 regions and find some way to get 2 more teams to the state tournament.

[woodchuck10]

Cut it down to 6 regions and find some way to get 2 more teams to the state tournament.

6 regions and bring the EDC and WDA regional champion to state

[Run4Fun2009]

I don't dislike Bisonguy06's opinion above...other than the addition of the 8th team; but there could be other options for that 8th team than what is listed above.

Another idea:
Keep the 8 regions...get rid of Districts and have Super-Regionals (similar to MN Sections) for post season tourney. In this setup there's the potential to add 2 games to regular season schedule (from 19 to 21).

[Bisonguy06]

I'm looking for a way around the Super-Regional concept. As a casual observer, I'd be much more likely to attend a District tournament with 8 teams rather than the super-regional play-in games scattered throughout the region on the same night.

[Flip]

super regional is the only idea that has any chance of happening

[Bisonguy06]

The super-regional concept has a lot of flaws. I think that the districts with 8 teams still have quite a bit of excitement over their district tournaments. We have enough teams for 14 of these.

Maybe we can find a better way to pick that 8th team to send to state. Any ideas there?

[Flip]

The super-regional concept has a lot of flaws.

what are they?

I think that the districts with 8 teams still have quite a bit of excitement over their district tournaments. We have enough teams for 14 of these.

but for how long?

Maybe we can find a better way to pick that 8th team to send to state. Any ideas there?

highest qrf

[SportsYearRound]

BisonGuy, I like your idea a lot. My question now: Is there a way we can make the region championship game with both teams advancing mean something?

Personally, I do not think for one second there would be a problem with making the game competitive. If you're a top 2 team in a region, you're a competitive team...I just think it would be nice to have an incentive.

Do we rank the state tournament?

[Bisonguy06]

The super-regional concept has a lot of flaws.

what are they?

I think that the districts with 8 teams still have quite a bit of excitement over their district tournaments. We have enough teams for 14 of these.

but for how long?

Maybe we can find a better way to pick that 8th team to send to state. Any ideas there?

highest qrf

The main flaw with the super-regional being planned is that the four play-in games are being held in four different locations. That's not a tournament at all. You'll draw virtually no outside interest in those games, and four teams will be eliminated without ever taking part in a real postseason tournament. Let's get back to 8 team district tournaments instead.

For how long will we have enough schools/teams for 14 districts of 8? Good question... but we're at a point in our state where there are more towns and schools that are growing rather than declining. I think this would hold up for awhile.

I like the idea of awarding two tourney berths to the strongest region. Whether we do that by a computer formula or by giving two to the region with the defending state champ, I'm open to that debate.

[Run4Fun2009]

The super-regional concept has a lot of flaws.

what are they?

I think that the districts with 8 teams still have quite a bit of excitement over their district tournaments. We have enough teams for 14 of these.

but for how long?

Maybe we can find a better way to pick that 8th team to send to state. Any ideas there?

highest qrf

The main flaw with the super-regional being planned is that the four play-in games are being held in four different locations. That's not a tournament at all. You'll draw virtually no outside interest in those games, and four teams will be eliminated without ever taking part in a real postseason tournament. Let's get back to 8 team district tournaments instead.

1) My thought is that just make all games be played at one site. They don't have to be at different locations.

2) Doing the Super Regional means that a team can't lose a tourney game and still make it to State...it makes it a true postseason (IMO). Super Regionals would be a single elimination tourney...so there would be an importance to every game played.

Again just some of my thoughts...

[Bisonguy06]

There is a larger issue here of equity and fairness.

Right now, we have 8 team districts where you have to win two neutral-site games to advance to regionals.

We have 5 and 6 team districts where you only have to win once.

Next year, we'll have teams earning a 'bye' straight into the regional tournament, and we'll have other teams that have to win a game in their opponent's gym to go to regionals.

Tourney format should be the same across the board. Instead, we have regions experimenting with different plans when we have a format (8 teams in a district, 8 teams in the regional) that already works.

So, why don't we go back to the drawing board and map out 14 healthy districts and 7 regions, and figure out how to pick out that 8th team that gets to go to state?

[Indy5]

I can definitely see the need for this. To advocate the 8 team district tournament, I will say district 12 has 8 teams and those are some competitive district tournaments. I feel as though making the region tournament means something to these teams since they have two win 2 games at a neutral site against some quality teams.

Just a another note is, I think this feels more like a true tournament being played at the Aud instead of someone else's home gym. I understand some districts don't have these resources though.

[Flip]

There is a larger issue here of equity and fairness.

Is it fair that Maple Valley has to beat schools 3 or 4 times larger than themselves to make it to state?

[Bisonguy06]

There will always be larger and smaller schools in any plan. I'm not proposing to move the enrollment cutoff here. I'm proposing a fix to the problem of 8 teams in one district and 5 in another.

[bballuvr]

Some interesting ideas being put forth.

14 Districts and 7 Regions. Figuring out the 8th team would make for some great debate.

I believe we have 109 Class B teams and that would be 108 if CP and PBK go together. That shakes down to 4 Regions with 13 and 4 with 14. That could work for awhile??

If we go to Super Regionals, let's not have play in games. We can play 22 regular season games. Regular season determines top 8. There is Regional field. Just have clear cut tiebreakers in place. Reguar season carries even more weight now.

Just some thoughts.

[ndlionsfan]

Problem is we will not stay at 109 long at all. We will be down to 100 in 3 years. I can name at least 4 teams who might not be playing next year, for sure in 2-3. Super regions is the only way to keep a system and still be able to maintain it with declining or even growing number of teams. But redistricting needs to happen first. Can't have 11 for one region and 16 in others

[Flip]

There will always be larger and smaller schools in any plan. I'm not proposing to move the enrollment cutoff here. I'm proposing a fix to the problem of 8 teams in one district and 5 in another.

I realize that. I suppose evening the districts would be easier than adding a class, but my point was things aren't always fair.

Like someone posted in another thread I don't think the NDHSAA thinks they have a problem and they have no intention of changing anything. Maybe we even out the districts or get rid of them, but I think there will be 8 regions for the foreseeable future.

[Bisonguy06]

Problem is we will not stay at 109 long at all. We will be down to 100 in 3 years. I can name at least 4 teams who might not be playing next year, for sure in 2-3. Super regions is the only way to keep a system and still be able to maintain it with declining or even growing number of teams. But redistricting needs to happen first. Can't have 11 for one region and 16 in others

Yeah, I am out in the oil patch where enrollment is looking up, but I probably don't have the perspective on schools outside of oil country. 14 districts and 7 regions would only be a band aid. We are probably heading toward elimination of districts, eh?

[Bisonguy06]

14 x 7 = 98
14 x 8 = 112

If we stayed above 98 participating teams, we'd maintain 14 districts with 7-8 teams in each.

[balla45]

Cut it down to 6 regions and find some way to get 2 more teams to the state tournament.

6 regions and bring the EDC and WDA regional champion to state

No. The WDA and EDC already have their own state tournament.

[Jenkman]

How about this? I'll add to your 'whatever team wins state the year before, gets two teams.'
I don't like that, just because the Region Championship wouldn't mean to much. Yeah teams would still play, but not as much hype.

Take the last two Region state winners..
So lets say Region 7(Beulah'12)
and Region 4(NS'11)

The runner-up of those region games this year, would play in a 'play-in game' for the 8th spot.
So Say Beulah beats Trinity, and NS beats FW.
Trinity and FW would play eachother at either a neutral site or the last region to win a state title(Region 7).

Sounds kind of fun to me!

[Flip]

What happens if Beulah wins it all this year who is in the play in game next year?

Not that I'm against 7 regions, but here is a better chance of NDSU playing D2 football in 5 years than this taking place.

[Jenkman]

You would take the LAST two winners. So say if Beulah wins it for 8 years, North Stars region would still be that second region.
All fun talk will never happen.

[Big Blue]

Keep District tournaments. It's important not to lose that excitement or revenue. But instead of having four teams qualify for regionals, have top two teams go on. It worked for decades, why wouldn't it work now? And I think a final four would also bring big crowds for two days of region tournaments. Problem with current super region proposal is that not every team has a shot. That's the beauty of district tournaments.You can't lose that IMO.