Waking Up Bishop Ryan

Class B Boys
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Re: Waking Up Bishop Ryan

Postby Flip » Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:39 pm

balla45 wrote:Again, do remember that the original post I responded to was that of a person who said that kids play AAU for gamesgamesgamesgamesgames. I will defend what we do. You would never hear me say that kids play high school basketball for gamesgamesgamesgamesgames.

Anyway, I've given my piece on what we do.

You should reread that post. He was unfamiliar with AAU and was asking for more information.
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Re: Waking Up Bishop Ryan

Postby balla45 » Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:49 pm

Good catch, I should have clarified that I was talking about playedalittle's post:

"Todays kids are all about the exposure. This web site is a mild example of the electronic buzz/frenzy that happens today. Why do they play AAU in the summer? To get better? I would argue that point till the cows come home. Kids and the parents that drive the dirty little buggers, are all about getting to the next level. My, Me, My, Me, My Kid."

"With ESPN, facebook, Twitter...SPorts have left the simple pleasure and treasure of local rivalries, family traditions, storied coaches, and are jumping into the instant gratification of the previous mentioned electronic media and AAU gamesgamesgamesgamesgamesgamesgamesgamesgamesgamesgamesgames."

I only responded because Hinsa requested that I do so, and I made a topic in the moderator forum to assure Hinsa and the other moderators that I was responding to playedalittle's post with mine.
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Re: Waking Up Bishop Ryan

Postby Flip » Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:35 pm

Sorry. I didn't even really read that post. It was one of those posts that had a general theme that wasn't worth reading.
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Re: Waking Up Bishop Ryan

Postby playedalittle » Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:22 am

I dont doubt that baller and other AAU programs serve a purpose. I am just not sure that it serves the greater good for the high school or collegiate programs. While I appreciate ballers time or anyones time for that matter that works with kids, I would still debate the worthiness of AAU programs in the big picture of basketball under its current structure.
Now while ballers passion is evident, I am surprised he did not take credit for the Lebron and Kobe being so good. I am not going to throw out statistics, or quote names, quite frankly I cant. But I am willing to bet that a percentage of both high school and college coaches would do away with AAU programs if possible. Ask them. They cannot say publicly because of the influence that the AAU organizers have over where the players may be going at the next level.
Again, baller 45 should be commended for his work with youth. My point is that AAU while benefitting the individual athlete, owes something to the whole program of the highschool, and the coaches.
Winner-within should not forget the past or history of ND basketball. Lots of good.
Embrace change, yes, forget the past. No
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Re: Waking Up Bishop Ryan

Postby winner-within » Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:15 am

playedalittle wrote:I dont doubt that baller and other AAU programs serve a purpose. I am just not sure that it serves the greater good for the high school or collegiate programs. While I appreciate ballers time or anyones time for that matter that works with kids, I would still debate the worthiness of AAU programs in the big picture of basketball under its current structure.
Now while ballers passion is evident, I am surprised he did not take credit for the Lebron and Kobe being so good. I am not going to throw out statistics, or quote names, quite frankly I cant. But I am willing to bet that a percentage of both high school and college coaches would do away with AAU programs if possible. Ask them. They cannot say publicly because of the influence that the AAU organizers have over where the players may be going at the next level.
Again, baller 45 should be commended for his work with youth. My point is that AAU while benefitting the individual athlete, owes something to the whole program of the highschool, and the coaches.
Winner-within should not forget the past or history of ND basketball. Lots of good.
Embrace change, yes, forget the past. No


You have to read more carefully .....I didn't say forget it....I said jokingly that "the good old days are gone" I'm part of the good old days....but I don't miss the frozen water in the toilet in the locker rooms, the Saturday night 7th & 8th grade games with the coach showing up drunk and taking out his own ignorance on the kids.....I don't miss all the District games and regional games being played on someones home court that's in the tourn (still happens today in a few places)....

I know for certain Class B Basketball competition has has subsided in ND, this is part of the reason for success of the AAU'S etc etc.....otherwise Class A would separate even further, the B kids that want a chance at a scholarship feel obligated to go compete because they aren't getting the deep down competition they need during the regular season (and some want 3 classes) hmmm.....
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Re: Waking Up Bishop Ryan

Postby Baller » Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:30 am

I think that the AAU programs, for ND athletes, is almost essential if they want to play at a higher level than Division 2 basketball. Division 1 coaches do not scout or recruit ND high school basketball because the good players are playing against far inferior players. When they see them at the AAU level, they are able to see them play against other college caliber athletes.

While AAU definately benefits the individual, doesnt the high school program also benefit from the development of the individual player? You can't have a program without skilled kids and without getting in the gym and working on your game, you cannot have skilled kids.

In the bigger towns, many kids, especially girls, would not get into the gym. It seems like gone are the days when kids went to work on their game just for the sake of getting better. Spending the day at Courts or the Y just working to get better are traded in for the Lake, the river, the pool, or just laying around. Kids need structure and scheduled time to work on their game and that is the baller45 and other off season programs are offering for these kids. I am not saying that all kids need this but more and more kids think that they can just step on the floor and play without working on skills in the offseason.

If you look at the topics in the girls Class A, people are griping that the talent level is down. They talent level isn't down. The girls still have the same amount of talent, they just don't work to make their skills and game better and therefore, just aren't as good because they dont work at it.

Its programs like AAU that create the elite player through skill development and playing against higher competition.
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Re: Waking Up Bishop Ryan

Postby winner-within » Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:08 am

No Doubt about it........I like a three sport (BB,FB,Baseball or Track) athlete also though, and now time is an essence, I'll get back to this ....If your a young player with a dream (not a parent with a dream for your son or daughter)...well than you just make that commitment and know that there is not going to be a whole lot of leisure time for about 5 years and then you will have some nice choices to make in the end....getting back to time is an essence, you have to know how to structure, pick and choose even if it means breaking away from the pack and doing it "your way".......Its like the young student who decides they are going to be a pilot, or a doctor, or an actor/actress, band instructor etc etc....these positions all require skill and talent and then a whole lot of grooming and instruction
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Re: Waking Up Bishop Ryan

Postby The Schwab » Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:10 am

winner-within wrote:No Doubt about it........I like a three sport (BB,FB,Baseball or Track) athlete also though, and now time is an essence, I'll get back to this ....If your a young player with a dream (not a parent with a dream for your son or daughter)...well than you just make that commitment and know that there is not going to be a whole lot of leisure time for about 5 years and then you will have some nice choices to make in the end....getting back to time is an essence, you have to know how to structure, pick and choose even if it means breaking away from the pack and doing it "your way".......Its like the young student who decides they are going to be a pilot, or a doctor, or an actor/actress, band instructor etc etc....these positions all require skill and talent and then a whole lot of grooming and instruction



I would say this is the biggest problem with basketball now and having not as many kids love the game, because they are forced to play.
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Re: Waking Up Bishop Ryan

Postby balla45 » Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:31 pm

playedalittle wrote:I dont doubt that baller and other AAU programs serve a purpose. I am just not sure that it serves the greater good for the high school or collegiate programs. While I appreciate ballers time or anyones time for that matter that works with kids, I would still debate the worthiness of AAU programs in the big picture of basketball under its current structure.


I would love to debate the worthiness of AAU programs in the big picture under its current structure. I honestly do not understand where the debate is. There is a reason that 95% of the top players in every state are playing AAU.

Now while ballers passion is evident, I am surprised he did not take credit for the Lebron and Kobe being so good. I am not going to throw out statistics, or quote names, quite frankly I cant.


What has more weight, me saying that our players have improved, or me providing concrete examples of who has improved and how that has happened? Any individual can say that they are doing something, I can back it up with facts. You posted that programs do not work on skill development. I countered that statement with factual information.

It is an absolute fact that a player from the middle of nowhere North Dakota who averages 5 points and 4 rebounds as a sophomore does not get looks from 5 Division 2 schools if he does not play AAU.

But I am willing to bet that a percentage of both high school and college coaches would do away with AAU programs if possible. Ask them. They cannot say publicly because of the influence that the AAU organizers have over where the players may be going at the next level.


Interesting. Easy to counter.

ECI - Moorman and Williams are Century assistants. Calvin Kraft is the head coach at Enderlin. Bud Etzold is a former head college coach.
Dakota Pride - Parent run program, so in this case, they have more influence over their players than their high school coaches do, as they are coaching their own kids.
Phenom - Pintar is an assistant at Century. Wilhelm is an assistant at Bismarck. Kleinjan is the student assistant at NDSU. Benson is an assistant at multiple levels in West Fargo.
University of Mary's head coach, Jevin Budde, is a former coach of All Iowa Attack.

In some scenarios, high school coaches do not like AAU. I've talked to an AAU coach in Wisconsin who doesn't like high school basketball. It can go both ways. Personally, I like both.

The number one reasons that I have encountered where college coaches don't like AAU are when players are playing all summer and should be in summer school, or programs run gross things.
I also can think of instances where local colleges are not happy about AAU, because a guy who would not have got major looks (Austin Dufault) if he did not play AAU, would have been a game changer for a University of Mary or a North Dakota State.

Again, baller 45 should be commended for his work with youth. My point is that AAU while benefitting the individual athlete, owes something to the whole program of the highschool, and the coaches.
Winner-within should not forget the past or history of ND basketball. Lots of good.
Embrace change, yes, forget the past. No


In my opinion, what we owe to the high school programs is to send them a player who has improved. When we stop improving players, coaches will stop sending guys to us or letting their guys play.
~I have no patience for anyone who doubts me, none at all. My entire goal is to make them feel ashamed for writing me off.

Jordan Maurer
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jordan.maurer@northdakotaphenom.com

~Be phenomenal or be forgotten.

~It does not take talent to hustle!
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