North Dakota Preps

Do other Towns have a few "bad eggs" in the crowd or is it just St John? I'm not saying our whole crowd is but like I said a few "bad eggs". Anyone else have this problem of blaming the refs for everything and being totally one sided and negative throughout the game.

woodchuck10 wrote:Do other Towns have a few "bad eggs" in the crowd or is it just St John? I'm not saying our whole crowd is but like I said a few "bad eggs". Anyone else have this problem of blaming the refs for everything and being totally one sided and negative throughout the game.

I think every school has those issues in their fan sections.

Well thank God his kid is a senior. Shouldn't have to listen to him next year then. its honestly embarrassing, I'm sorry I'm venting on here haha

woodchuck10 wrote:Well thank God his kid is a senior. Shouldn't have to listen to him next year then. its honestly embarrassing, I'm sorry I'm venting on here haha

In some cases, its the parents that are the issues...in other cases its the students. But in my opinion there isn't a school in the state that doesn't have issues with fans.

Run4Fun2009 wrote:

woodchuck10 wrote:Well thank God his kid is a senior. Shouldn't have to listen to him next year then. its honestly embarrassing, I'm sorry I'm venting on here haha

In some cases, its the parents that are the issues...in other cases its the students. But in my opinion there isn't a school in the state that doesn't have issues with fans.

In most cases its a parent. The students will complain a bit here and there, but just to get under someone's skin. There's always a few parents from each team that are so obnoxious yelling at the refs (or even the coach or players) that it's just ridiculous.

Its just embarrassing. Calling the ref baldy, saying North Star got their number two ranking cause they paid off the refs. Even though we were down 30 and were just getting out hustled and out played and that they are flat out a better team. I could go all day with examples off this behavior. you can give the refs some grief but this is just ridiculous and embarrassing to be around. Basically I wanna apologize for anyone who has heard him and who will hear him in the future

Hey, I know what you mean, woodchuck. I've got one for you. This was a few years ago, but I still remember it. My daughter was on a 7th grade girls basketball team. Away game, and a couple of high school boys had volunteered to ref it. A parent of one of my daughter's teammates gets so freaked out about a foul call that he stands up, explodes in a tirade of swear words and vulgar rants that goes on for what seemed like forever. Anyway, the principal of the school we were at comes over and politely asks him to quiet down. Does he? No. He then starts in about the whole school and what a dump it is and how stupid everybody in the town is. Eventually he leaves (kicked out). Did I mention this was a 7th grade girls basketball game?????

I was never so embarrassed to be associated with a fan in my life. Luckily, the guy was at least smart enough ban himself from ever attending a game again. His daughter and my daughter played ball together until they graduated and he never attended another game. Missed her whole carreer just because he couldn't control himself.

It's just a game, you guys!

It is just a game and as much as we want to see our teams do well. We, as parents, HAVE to keep things in perspective.

Thankfully, it has been a few years, but I have definately been guilty of losing perspective and have made some comments to refs that I sincerely regret. There is no place for it, regardless of the circumstance.

And going after players or coaches (your own team or otherwise) should NEVER happen.

Unfortunately, I do still see it occur from time to time but it isnt the norm.

old#63 wrote:Hey, I know what you mean, woodchuck. I've got one for you. This was a few years ago, but I still remember it. My daughter was on a 7th grade girls basketball team. Away game, and a couple of high school boys had volunteered to ref it. A parent of one of my daughter's teammates gets so freaked out about a foul call that he stands up, explodes in a tirade of swear words and vulgar rants that goes on for what seemed like forever. Anyway, the principal of the school we were at comes over and politely asks him to quiet down. Does he? No. He then starts in about the whole school and what a dump it is and how stupid everybody in the town is. Eventually he leaves (kicked out). Did I mention this was a 7th grade girls basketball game?????

I was never so embarrassed to be associated with a fan in my life. Luckily, the guy was at least smart enough ban himself from ever attending a game again. His daughter and my daughter played ball together until they graduated and he never attended another game. Missed her whole carreer just because he couldn't control himself.

It's just a game, you guys!

those are inner demons...not even associated with the game .....alcohol? maybe an abused child?? none the less, very sad
passion for the game (and I have it) is one thing and can also lead to wanting the fairest game possible and confute if its not.
this is different than flat out hate, or fierce anger

I think we all want the games to be called fairly but probably all will have pretty biased opinions on what that means for any particular game.

There has been 1 game I have watched this year (out of more than 20) where I think I could fairly question how a game was called from the first to last whistle. Basketball is the one sport where how it is called can directly impact the result, so you are going to have these perceptions from game to game.

However, the fact is hat no matter how bad you feel a game may be reffed, saying ANYTHING to a ref about it is not going to correct it, so why say anything at all?

Good topic. So good I had to chime in.

Adult refs would help keep some of this fan anger down to a minimum.

I believe that adult refs (with some training & experience) are more likely to keep the physical play in check. Blowing the whistle early in a game for on a push in the back in the paint going for rebound (probably the most dangerous situation) or a reach or slap on the perimeter really helps keep the rest of the game clean and fans quiet. Coaches teach these kids to NOT do this and will remind them to stop it in their huddles.
Also, refs who 'talk through their whistle' and remind players to go up straight, watch the hand checks, clear the lane, etc. help the flow of the game and educate players on what is within the rules and what isn't.

Kids know the rules, they just get excited sometimes going for a steal, a rebound or a block. Or they get so wrapped up in running the offense they forget to clear the lane. Just kids being kids. AND, as an example, if fans hear you helping remind kids to do these things, they will understand more when you call an overt 3 second violation, and also if you don't. At least that's been my experience.

This helps prevent injuries and keep things as even as possible. That is mostly what I hear fans and coaches chirping about, safety. Rightfully so. There is a lot of disparity in sizes, shapes and skill levels in 7th, 8th and 9th grades. Bad things can happen quickly if it gets out of control - make sure it doesn't.
Whoever can solve that will reduce the complaints by 50% or more.

14OldSchool wrote:Good topic. So good I had to chime in.

Adult refs would help keep some of this fan anger down to a minimum.

I believe that adult refs (with some training & experience) are more likely to keep the physical play in check. Blowing the whistle early in a game for on a push in the back in the paint going for rebound (probably the most dangerous situation) or a reach or slap on the perimeter really helps keep the rest of the game clean and fans quiet. Coaches teach these kids to NOT do this and will remind them to stop it in their huddles.
Also, refs who 'talk through their whistle' and remind players to go up straight, watch the hand checks, clear the lane, etc. help the flow of the game and educate players on what is within the rules and what isn't.

Kids know the rules, they just get excited sometimes going for a steal, a rebound or a block. Or they get so wrapped up in running the offense they forget to clear the lane. Just kids being kids. AND, as an example, if fans hear you helping remind kids to do these things, they will understand more when you call an overt 3 second violation, and also if you don't. At least that's been my experience.

This helps prevent injuries and keep things as even as possible. That is mostly what I hear fans and coaches chirping about, safety. Rightfully so. There is a lot of disparity in sizes, shapes and skill levels in 7th, 8th and 9th grades. Bad things can happen quickly if it gets out of control - make sure it doesn't.
Whoever can solve that will reduce the complaints by 50% or more.

Completely agree unless the bolded spot goes for high school games, because we have officials here who do that and it drives me crazy, at the high school level if it is a foul, then blow your whistle.

The Schwab wrote:
Completely agree unless the bolded spot goes for high school games, because we have officials here who do that and it drives me crazy, at the high school level if it is a foul, then blow your whistle.

maybe officials are encouraged to do this, I'm on the other side of the state and they do that over here too. Not all officials, but some.

Great input.

The biggest pet peeve I have in terms of officials is how they call post play.

Often times they let smaller players get away with a lot of things (grabbing, hugging, pushing) when playing a bigger opponent but do not call it the same way for the larger player when they are on D. How demoralizing must it be for a post player to get mauled by double and triple teams on one end then get called for barely making contact on the defensive end?

Also, flopping is getting out of hand and is a serious safety issue. Taking charges is an awesome part of the game and I love it, but falling down everytime an opponent comes near them is ridiculous. Unfortunately, more often than not, if it is a larger kid "knockng over" a smaller kid, the ref will call it. Now if a player, no matter what size they are buries a shoulder to create space, that is an offensive foul, no doubt.

Again, none of these examples warrants a tirade against a ref, just things I would like to see improved, if possible.

I know it isnt an easy job and I am thankful for those that do it. By and large they do a great job and we are lucky to have them.

EHS1998 wrote:Great input.

The biggest pet peeve I have in terms of officials is how they call post play.

Often times they let smaller players get away with a lot of things (grabbing, hugging, pushing) when playing a bigger opponent but do not call it the same way for the larger player when they are on D. How demoralizing must it be for a post player to get mauled by double and triple teams on one end then get called for barely making contact on the defensive end?

Also, flopping is getting out of hand and is a serious safety issue. Taking charges is an awesome part of the game and I love it, but falling down everytime an opponent comes near them is ridiculous. Unfortunately, more often than not, if it is a larger kid "knockng over" a smaller kid, the ref will call it. Now if a player, no matter what size they are buries a shoulder to create space, that is an offensive foul, no doubt.

Again, none of these examples warrants a tirade against a ref, just things I would like to see improved, if possible.

I know it isnt an easy job and I am thankful for those that do it. By and large they do a great job and we are lucky to have them.

I couldnt agree with you more in both assessments. Big guys always get picked on. I've posted a lot about this in the semi-circle thread on this site. I think it would clean the game up a lot. I absolutely hate it when a guy falls underneath someone when they are going up for a shot, its both dirty and dangerous but most of the time they get bailed out with a charging call. I think a semi-circle would make it much easier for a ref and for players to understand where on the for you can actually take a charge.

IMO the three calls being missed/or inconsistent
-Traveling
-Over the Back (on rebound and when defender comes over the post to try and slap the ball)
-reaching in (they don't call it all game and then call it going into the lsat 2 mins when its close)

winner-within wrote:IMO the three calls being missed/or inconsistent
-Traveling
-Over the Back (on rebound and when defender comes over the post to try and slap the ball)
-reaching in (they don't call it all game and then call it going into the lsat 2 mins when its close)

The last two of your three listed are not fouls. People that complain about things being called or not being called need to actually read a rule book. "Over the back" and "reaching in" are not fouls!

Not sure but I think he means that when one player makes physical contact with an opposing player while going over their back or reaching in, that is a foul.

Sorry, I feel like I have helped to hijack this thread...not my intent.

eyeinthesky wrote:

winner-within wrote:IMO the three calls being missed/or inconsistent
-Traveling
-Over the Back (on rebound and when defender comes over the post to try and slap the ball)
-reaching in (they don't call it all game and then call it going into the lsat 2 mins when its close)

The last two of your three listed are not fouls. People that complain about things being called or not being called need to actually read a rule book. "Over the back" and "reaching in" are not fouls!

Proper terms would be hand check or hold, and push. It's really neither here nor there...the one that get's me when I'm watching games is actually when underneath is a complete war both offensively and defensively, and then a defender on the perimeter get's called for a chippy "hand check!" No reason to get crazy though, human error is part of the game.

Refs are not the issue. Its the fans that think the refs are out to get you. Where every single call against you is a bad call and wrong. Its always the least educated and fans that never even played or reffed a game themselves for that matter.

I would agree that refs are not the issue and they arent out to get you.

woodchuck10 wrote:Refs are not the issue. Its the fans that think the refs are out to get you. Where every single call against you is a bad call and wrong. Its always the least educated and fans that never even played or reffed a game themselves for that matter.

I agree completely. The very fans who claim the refs are playing favorites, couldn't be objective if their life depended on it.

Some of those other stories like old#63 are kinda nice to hear. You're right It is embarrassing to be associated with something like that. And the bad rep that it can give your whole town. Glad I'm not the only one, and I'm not the only in St John who thinks this way thankfully

Woodchuck you are not alone when it comes to bad fans. Every town I've been to has one or two that make their school look bad. Some times you have to remind them that they are embarassing the team and should shut up.

Conversely, there are some fans who are very positive in supporting their team. I am happy to say that we generally have more of those than the other.