Strength of Region (toughest road to state)

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Strength of Region (toughest road to state)

Postby timberwolf » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:29 am

Just curious as to who you guys' think is the toughest Region (toughest road to state) from greatest to least. IMO it goes:

Region 7
Region 1
Region 4
Region 6
----------
Region 3
Region 5
Region 8
Region 2

*7 being filled with the best teams and Region 2 with the least.
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Re: Strength of Region (toughest road to state)

Postby timberwolf » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:34 am

I do, however, think that the bad teams from the western side of the state are quite a bit worse than some of the bad teams from the eastern side of the state. Does anyone else feel this way? School size has a big role in this.
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Re: Strength of Region (toughest road to state)

Postby woodchuck10 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:54 am

Region 1 probly has the "toughest road to state" because of the depth of the region. however Region 7 and 4 could easily have the 5 best teams in the state but only 2 will get to goto state.

IMO

Region 7
Region 4
----------
Region 1
Region 6
Region 3
Region 8
----------
Region 5
Region 2
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Re: Strength of Region (toughest road to state)

Postby packers21 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:16 pm

No way Region 2 is the worst is the state haha, just not true. May not be as strong as usual, but not the worst. Every region has a couple great teams, 7-4-1 probably have the best top to bottom. 3-2-6-8-5 are all pretty close.

Region 7
Region 4
Region 1
Region 3
Region 2
Region 6
Region 8
Region 5
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Re: Strength of Region (toughest road to state)

Postby The Schwab » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:29 pm

timberwolf wrote:I do, however, think that the bad teams from the western side of the state are quite a bit worse than some of the bad teams from the eastern side of the state. Does anyone else feel this way? School size has a big role in this.


Just curious as to what teams from the western side you would be referring to as bad? Like are you talking specific regions?
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Re: Strength of Region (toughest road to state)

Postby NDplayin » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:39 pm

For a little objective insight on the topic, I used Run4Fun's recent breakdown of QRF by region. I realize these QRF numbers aren't perfect representations, but at least they are objective. I did two separate breakdowns. The first I averaged the QRF of every team in the Region. The second I averaged the QRF of only the top 4 teams in the region (most likely semi-finalists).

Average of all Region Teams

1. Region 7- 68.29
2. Region 1- 65.49
3. Region 6- 62.68

4. Region 5- 58.16
5. Region 3- 54.18
6. Region 2- 50.64
7. Region 4- 49.38

8. Region 8- 33.95

Average of top 4 teams

1. Region 7- 119.2

2. Region 1- 103.88
3. Region 4- 102.95
4. Region 6- 99.15
5. Region 5- 98.38

6. Region 3- 91.13

7. Region 2- 70.88
8. Region 8- 69.38

** Notes:

Regions 7, 1, and 6 have total averages that come extremely close the averages of top 4 teams of Regions 2 and 8

Regions 7 and 1 seem to be the two toughest regions, coming in 1 and 2 on both lists respectively

Region 4 took the biggest jump up from total average to average of top 4

The most significant point spreads were Region 7's margin as #1 in average of top 4 teams, and Region 8's margin of last place in the average of all teams.

Region 8 bottomed out both lists
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Re: Strength of Region (toughest road to state)

Postby winner-within » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:09 pm

I have a problem with this thread in a sense.......I think the most important thing to overcome in getting a ticket to the State Tournament is to beat experience..... There is no possible way that Region 2 is the slickest ride to State when Region 2 has won more State tourns than any other Region....in other words all 8 Regions will be very difficult to get out of with stiff competition in each........then if you were to play all the teams that went runner up and 3erd and 4th place against each other, you would see some really close games there too...Why?? because its March, and because teams are hungry, and peaking, and figuring out each other, etc etc
Theres one level of athlete in ND (nothin taken away) some just work harder and are gifted a bit more...and the coach and program play a huge part.....but there are 8 regions and they equal out pretty good JMO
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Re: Strength of Region (toughest road to state)

Postby B-oldtimer » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:51 am

I would rate region region 7 and region 4 as having top contending teams for a state run. I am not saying these regions are toughest to get to state but each of these regions has two to three quality teams that could win a state tournament. I think some of the other regions may be more balanced in strenghth of oppenents and who will win these regions could be some surprises by the end of the year. In Region 4 which i am most familar with Northstar, Fourwinds and Carrington are far the top teams in this region and by way they have played outside teams from region looks like they will do very well. The rest of teams in the region 4 are at a different level than these top three teams. What i have saw of region 2 teams this year its not the quality they have had past several years but some of these teams are young may be alot stronger by the end of the year. Region 6 looks to be alot like region 4 with couple of real top teams and rest region to be lesser level. All of the regions appear to have couple of quality teams but state tournament will determine how strong these teams will be.
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Re: Strength of Region (toughest road to state)

Postby old#63 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:27 am

R2 might not be as powerful as in past years, and tough road or not, I'll still predict that an R2 team will be playing on TV Saturday night of the State B. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.
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Re: Strength of Region (toughest road to state)

Postby old#63 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:14 pm

scc wrote:
old#63 wrote:R2 might not be as powerful as in past years, and tough road or not, I'll still predict that an R2 team will be playing on TV Saturday night of the State B. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

That's not really a bold prediction if you look at the pairings for day one.

:D You see what I did there!
Last edited by old#63 on Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Strength of Region (toughest road to state)

Postby newkidontheblock » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:15 pm

old#63 wrote:R2 might not be as powerful as in past years, and tough road or not, I'll still predict that an R2 team will be playing on TV Saturday night of the State B. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

It's not that bold of a prediction when R2 matches up with R8 in the first round. That game will be a good time to turn the TV off and go grab dinner, and just because someone has to win that game doesn't mean that team is one of the best four in the state- nor in the tournament. They will get a trophy that falsely claims so, but that's merely a delusional byproduct of the antique and broken tournament system we use.

That was worded harshly to make a point. Don't get me wrong, whoever represents Regions 2, 3, 5, 8 will have worked hard to earn their way out of their Region and should be proud of their accomplishments. However, they would have a long way to go to convince me they are actually one of the top 8 teams in the state.

My personal Top 10 list includes 4 teams from Region 7, 3 teams from Region 6, 2 teams from Region 4, and 1 team from Region 1
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Re: Strength of Region (toughest road to state)

Postby packers21 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:23 pm

newkidontheblock wrote:
old#63 wrote:R2 might not be as powerful as in past years, and tough road or not, I'll still predict that an R2 team will be playing on TV Saturday night of the State B. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

It's not that bold of a prediction when R2 matches up with R8 in the first round. That game will be a good time to turn the TV off and go grab dinner, and just because someone has to win that game doesn't mean that team is one of the best four in the state- nor in the tournament. They will get a trophy that falsely claims so, but that's merely a delusional byproduct of the antique and broken tournament system we use.

That was worded harshly to make a point. Don't get me wrong, whoever represents Regions 2, 3, 5, 8 will have worked hard to earn their way out of their Region and should be proud of their accomplishments. However, they would have a long way to go to convince me they are actually one of the top 8 teams in the state.

My personal Top 10 list includes 4 teams from Region 7, 3 teams from Region 6, 2 teams from Region 4, and 1 team from Region 1



4 top teams from R7 ya I'm ok with that, I'd even give you 3 top teams from R4. Not 3 top teams from R6 Rugby is and thats it. R1 has a lot of talent
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Re: Strength of Region (toughest road to state)

Postby ndlionsfan » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:29 pm

You need to include 3 from Region 4. Who are your 4 from Region 7? Trinity, Beulah, then who? Region 1 has some top teams as well. Rugby is up there. Possibly TLMM and Shiloh. Don't know much about Region 3 and 8 and how SZ, Trenton, Powers Lake, etc. match up against the rest of the state. I think Cavalier is better than most are giving them credit for, too.
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Re: Strength of Region (toughest road to state)

Postby newkidontheblock » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:30 pm

I may have overlooked Region 1 slightly, but I think you are overlooking Region 6. I'll compromise with you and go 2 from Region 1 and 2 from Region 6 while still having the same 2 from Region 4 and 4 from Region 7. The real point here, is that I don't believe half the regions in the state have a Top 10 team, and therefore, at least half of the 8 representatives at the state tournament will not be Top 10 caliber. That's an ear mark of a broken system.
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Re: Strength of Region (toughest road to state)

Postby old#63 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:31 pm

newkidontheblock wrote:
old#63 wrote:R2 might not be as powerful as in past years, and tough road or not, I'll still predict that an R2 team will be playing on TV Saturday night of the State B. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

It's not that bold of a prediction when R2 matches up with R8 in the first round. That game will be a good time to turn the TV off and go grab dinner, and just because someone has to win that game doesn't mean that team is one of the best four in the state- nor in the tournament. They will get a trophy that falsely claims so, but that's merely a delusional byproduct of the antique and broken tournament system we use.

That was worded harshly to make a point. Don't get me wrong, whoever represents Regions 2, 3, 5, 8 will have worked hard to earn their way out of their Region and should be proud of their accomplishments. However, they would have a long way to go to convince me they are actually one of the top 8 teams in the state.

My personal Top 10 list includes 4 teams from Region 7, 3 teams from Region 6, 2 teams from Region 4, and 1 team from Region 1

Agreed, and if we could also agree that there were many other years where R2 (traditionally always strong) has left several top 8 teams sitting on the losing bench of the Betty (or Mayville state, or Grafton) with their faces in their towels wishing they could have made state. Comes around, goes around. That's class B. Respectfully submitted by this R2 homer. :D
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Re: Strength of Region (toughest road to state)

Postby The Schwab » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:34 pm

ndlionsfan wrote:You need to include 3 from Region 4. Who are your 4 from Region 7? Trinity, Beulah, then who? Region 1 has some top teams as well. Rugby is up there. Possibly TLMM and Shiloh. Don't know much about Region 3 and 8 and how SZ, Trenton, Powers Lake, etc. match up against the rest of the state. I think Cavalier is better than most are giving them credit for, too.


I would say you could throw Hazen, Mott-Regent and Heart River in the mix. Heart River would be a favorite in other regions and Mott-Regent is playing really well right now
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Re: Strength of Region (toughest road to state)

Postby newkidontheblock » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:37 pm

I can agree to that Old 63. The pendulum swings back and forth in terms of what regions are tougher. Some Regions traditionally seem to keep their strength longer than others... but it swings none the less. The constant seems to be that the system we use leaves more deserving teams behind than it should.
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Re: Strength of Region (toughest road to state)

Postby newkidontheblock » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:41 pm

I was thinking Beulah, Trinity, Hazen, Heart River out of Region 7. Heart River is going to take a hit in public opinion due to their loss to Flasher. However, they were missing (I think) 4 starters and 7 total varsity players to flu and injury that game. If they are full strength come tournament time they are better than a few will be regional champions.

I don't know if Mott-Regent is really that good. I think their win over Shiloh Christian is more indicative of just how weak Region 5 is than it is of how good Mott-Regent is.
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Re: Strength of Region (toughest road to state)

Postby The Schwab » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:42 pm

Well MR beat Hazen last night
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Re: Strength of Region (toughest road to state)

Postby newkidontheblock » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:45 pm

The Schwab wrote:Well MR beat Hazen last night

I hadn't picked up my paper yet this morning. I may have to stand corrected
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Re: Strength of Region (toughest road to state)

Postby winner-within » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:46 pm

I just wanna be clear....I am not honking Region 2's horn....I'm just saying that this year is simply no different than any other when it comes to "who may get shafted when it comes to the last 8" this theory of... "lets put this team in another region and they would rock it" is nonsense, because for 1. its irrelevant, and 2.we would never know.

I gotta question
What makes all these teams so much more powerful than they were in the past
the oil field?
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Re: Strength of Region (toughest road to state)

Postby The Schwab » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:49 pm

Come watch the semi final night of region 7 this year
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Re: Strength of Region (toughest road to state)

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:49 pm

winner-within wrote:I gotta question...
What makes all these teams so much more powerful than they were in the past?
the oil field?


The talent on the teams...
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Re: Strength of Region (toughest road to state)

Postby ndlionsfan » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:50 pm

I can't put Hazen, HR, or MR over FWM, Cavalier, or even a top team from a weaker region like TLMM or LMM. Maybe one of those teams in there, but definitely not 2-3.

It's like this every year...."my region is better than yours", but there is really no way to compare all of them because no one can see them all play. Best way to compare is to look at the Northstar/Beulah, Rugby, Cavalier, FWM, etc. games over the Christmas break and they were all pretty even.

And there is no way to guarantee the top 8 teams in the state to make the tournament because there is no possibly way to figure out and justify who the top 8 are.
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Re: Strength of Region (toughest road to state)

Postby newkidontheblock » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:55 pm

winner-within wrote:I gotta question
What makes all these teams so much more powerful than they were in the past
the oil field?

I don't think that's the accurate way to work what we (or at least I) am saying. I don't think these teams are more powerful than they were in the past- but the pendulum swings. Region 7 in particular has had other very strong years in the past- and the pendulum has swung back to them once again. It's also a senior dominated region nearly team by team. Next year the pendulum will swing back, and several may be calling Region 7 weak.

Also, you're right. This year is no different. Every year we see at least one Region (doesnt matter which it is that particular year) leaving a Top 4 team at home because there's also a Top 2 team in the same region. Yet we continually stick with the same broken system.
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