North Dakota Preps

KG4MVP wrote:

NodakQ2 wrote:ml...you're letting your bias get in the way.

1. - Call on Hagler was correct. The video clearly shows him going up for a shot and getting fouled, making it look like a pass.
2. - No way is that EVER called an intentional foul.

I wouldnt say EVER..I've seen some refs that would have.

your on the wrong call I wasnt talking about that pass and it was a pass not a shot everyone can be in denial about it. I guess everyone else is wrong or a liar because evreyone agrees except for you few that are always on here trying to make your inaccurate comments if any ones biased its you guys because your always right and everyone else is wrong. The foul I'm talking about is in the end when Langstaff stole the ball from Hagler...so if you dont know what your talking about dont be commenting.

HighPlainsDrifter wrote:

mlfan wrote:Awesome game but NS can thank the refs for their win...1st of all Hagler should have not got three shots because he was passing the ball he was not shooting...2nd of all in the end that was an intentional fall Hagler made on Langstaff he should of got two shots and Warwick should of had the ball back. Warwick should of had it by 5 or more...Thanks for the footage I thought that earlier and the footage made it even clearer...

He was shooting - the foul made it look like a pass.

That foul was not that hard of a foul to make him completely miss by that much, he was passing it to his team mate you can clearly see it if you cant then you are also in denial and also need some glasses...

mlfan wrote:

HighPlainsDrifter wrote:

mlfan wrote:Awesome game but NS can thank the refs for their win...1st of all Hagler should have not got three shots because he was passing the ball he was not shooting...2nd of all in the end that was an intentional fall Hagler made on Langstaff he should of got two shots and Warwick should of had the ball back. Warwick should of had it by 5 or more...Thanks for the footage I thought that earlier and the footage made it even clearer...

He was shooting - the foul made it look like a pass.

That foul was not that hard of a foul to make him completely miss by that much, he was passing it to his team mate you can clearly see it if you cant then you are also in denial and also need some glasses...

I agree its a definate pass.

mlfan wrote:

HighPlainsDrifter wrote:

mlfan wrote:Awesome game but NS can thank the refs for their win...1st of all Hagler should have not got three shots because he was passing the ball he was not shooting...2nd of all in the end that was an intentional fall Hagler made on Langstaff he should of got two shots and Warwick should of had the ball back. Warwick should of had it by 5 or more...Thanks for the footage I thought that earlier and the footage made it even clearer...

He was shooting - the foul made it look like a pass.

That foul was not that hard of a foul to make him completely miss by that much, he was passing it to his team mate you can clearly see it if you cant then you are also in denial and also need some glasses...

LMAO - i watched the video may times, clearly Jake went up for the shot, it doesn't matter . . . Langstaff missed a few free throws in the 4rth quarter I believe that would have made a difference, we can analyze the game to death of would've, could've, should've but it is what it is, a win for North Star, there were a few missed calls both ways but even them selves out . . . good job and good luck to Langstaff . . . very good player . . .

I was very impressed with Langstaff in this game. Grande is an excellent defender and he made ML make tough shot after tough shot, which he did. ML is better than I thought he was and I thought he was great to begin with.

Warwick, especially with Ironhawk back, would be a tough out for ALOT of teams in the state. Man can they shoot. Wow.

Congrats to NS on a hard fought win. Champions find a way.

Good post EHS. It is great that someone could post high-lites and give people an opportunity to watch these players. In some threads, Melvin has been thought of as 1 dimensional (offense), but he brings so much more to the game. Very good rebounder, defender and passer as well. There was a lot of good talent on the floor at the Sports Center last night.
As far as this game goes, I never want to hear "where was the defense" statement. Have been around basketball long enough to know that these guys (both teams) were simply unstoppable last night. Spreading the floor, penetrating and kicking out, finishing at the rim, great screen & roll plays, pin point passing and some good physical rebounding. Just good old Class B basketball. Great game guys.

EHS1998 wrote:I was very impressed with Langstaff in this game. Grande is an excellent defender and he made ML make tough shot after tough shot, which he did. ML is better than I thought he was and I thought he was great to begin with.

Warwick, especially with Ironhawk back, would be a tough out for ALOT of teams in the state. Man can they shoot. Wow.

Congrats to NS on a hard fought win. Champions find a way.

The "tough out" is Warwicks Loss........And more often than not "Having the Heart of a Champion" is better than Champion itself.

ML- I am talking about the same two separate plays you are disputing. The foul on the three point attempt, and the foul on Melvin at the other end.

I have no dog in this fight, in fact I was cheering for Warwick, but I thought both calls were correct....

We all agree, this was a great basketball game with some great players. Melvin is all he is hyped to be and more. Ironhawk had an incredible game. Hagler and Grande's games speak for themselves.

There were mishaps by both teams throughout the game that COUlD'VE been difference makers. There were disputable calls BOTH ways throughout the game. If's, would'ves and should'ves don't win games. Both teams played great, the officials did a decent job. In the end one team lead on the scoreboard. Don't take away from how awesome this game was by whining about a couple "close" calls. Warwick had plenty of chances to control their own destiny down the stretch and it just didn't work out. Congrats to North Star on winning one of the best Class B games ever!

Does anyone know the record for 3's in a game? Can't imagine this game didn't blow the record away with 30.

mlfan wrote:

HighPlainsDrifter wrote:

mlfan wrote:Awesome game but NS can thank the refs for their win...1st of all Hagler should have not got three shots because he was passing the ball he was not shooting...2nd of all in the end that was an intentional fall Hagler made on Langstaff he should of got two shots and Warwick should of had the ball back. Warwick should of had it by 5 or more...Thanks for the footage I thought that earlier and the footage made it even clearer...

He was shooting - the foul made it look like a pass.

That foul was not that hard of a foul to make him completely miss by that much, he was passing it to his team mate you can clearly see it if you cant then you are also in denial and also need some glasses...

Give it a rest, man. You weren't on the floor, the refs were. The refs made the call -- he was shooting. Game over. Move on with your life.

scc wrote:It looks like a shot attempt to me. He just couldn't get the distance on it with his arm being held. An angle from the opposite side would make it easier to tell.

I agree.

Hagler goes to the line on that 3-pt play 19 out of 20 times... That same call is and will be made at any level of basketball; it's almost always going to be treated as a shot attempt.

No mentions of the Maple Valley, Central Cass game?

ILoveBaseball21 wrote:No mentions of the Maple Valley, Central Cass game?

I don't think that would be in the NS Warwick hi-lites forum.

North Star stat sheet here:

http://www.northstar.k12.nd.us/Sports/BoysBB/22boys.pdf

It's hard to lose a game when you shoot 67% from the field, but that's what Warwick shot according to this.

vikingman wrote:North Star stat sheet here:

http://www.northstar.k12.nd.us/Sports/BoysBB/22boys.pdf

It's hard to lose a game when you shoot 67% from the field, but that's what Warwick shot according to this.

Warwick shot 8 more 3's than 2's in the game! WOW!! Don't hear that often. Also, anyone know of any records being broke in that game. 3's by a team, 3's in a game, etc???

53 3pts attempted compared to 19 FTs overall in the game. In watching through the highlights 90% of those 30 3pts made were uncontested, wide open shots. It's crazy to see how many times Warwick left Hagler wide open on the top of the key and Grande wide open on the baseline after they kept draining them at those spots. Same with Northstar leaving Ironhawk so wide open from the wings.

I only watched the highlight footage.

I might get crucified for saying this, but I will say it anyway - Where was the defense?

Look at the highlight footage with an objective eye. Warwick did a very poor job of closing out on shooters - the effort was almost non-existent. And North Star did a poor job of hedging out on screens. Teams that hedge well will not leave the screener so wide open for a return pass. Overall, I just saw way, way too many completely uncontested three point shots. Even the shots in the lane were virtually hassle free.

I'm sorry, but at least from the highlight footage, I saw very little defense being played, especially by Warwick.

Was there better defense on the full quarter footage?

Hinsa wrote:I only watched the highlight footage.

I might get crucified for saying this, but I will say it anyway - Where was the defense?

Look at the highlight footage with an objective eye. Warwick did a very poor job of closing out on shooters - the effort was almost non-existent. And North Star did a poor job of hedging out on screens. Teams that hedge well will not leave the screener so wide open for a return pass. Overall, I just saw way, way too many completely uncontested three point shots. Even the shots in the lane were virtually hassle free.

I'm sorry, but at least from the highlight footage, I saw very little defense being played, especially by Warwick.

Was there better defense on the full quarter footage?

Well the final score was 86-85...doesn't than answer your question? haha

Hinsa wrote:I only watched the highlight footage.

I might get crucified for saying this, but I will say it anyway - Where was the defense?

Look at the highlight footage with an objective eye. Warwick did a very poor job of closing out on shooters - the effort was almost non-existent. And North Star did a poor job of hedging out on screens. Teams that hedge well will not leave the screener so wide open for a return pass. Overall, I just saw way, way too many completely uncontested three point shots. Even the shots in the lane were virtually hassle free.

I'm sorry, but at least from the highlight footage, I saw very little defense being played, especially by Warwick.

Was there better defense on the full quarter footage?

I watched both the quarters and agree 100%. I was thinking exactly the same thing as i watched the videos.

NOPE don't go there........I have touched on this subject and everybody (in region 4) says it was real solid D

honestly with the whole pass or shot thing. my take on it is i think hagler was going up for the shot but as he went up he might have seen the open cutter coming on the left and tried to pass it in there last second. i probably still would have given him the shots, because it really does look initially like he was going to shoot that. if you watch at about the 9 minute mark of the 4 quarter, hagler does the exact same thing he does a jump pass. which initially looks like a shot. so i can see the argument for him making a pass because of him doing the same thing earlier. also with the questionable foul on langstaff. i dont think it was intentional because from the video it looked like hagler was trying to dig the ball out. i also question why after that warwick 3 was made with about 19 left,to take the lead, what defense were they in? it was like a full court 2-3 zone. either play a full court man or play in the zone you have been playing all game. in my opinion stay in the zone and pick it up half court instead of trying to pressure hagler full court and getting beat and he walks into the lane for a layup. i know he didnt make the shot, grande did but if warwick has some kind of defense set up they force N-S to take a harder shot than a rebound put back. refs didnt win that game for N-S, warwick shot themselves in the foot with poor late game management.

winner-within wrote:NOPE don't go there........I have touched on this subject and everybody (in region 4) says it was real solid D

If this is solid D than what is bad defense? There was uncontested shot after uncontested shot. Many of which the defender didn't even bother to put a hand up, but rather simply watch the shot. Warwick's defensive effort was espeacialy poor, several times they didn't even bother to guard hagler or grande and let them simply shoot a wide open 3.

I'd like to put the shot/pass thing to rest. I was under the basket taking pictures and I have the shot. Hagler's eyes are on the basket and his hands are set for shooting, not for passing.

mlfan wrote: Also if he wouldnt have got those three free throws we deffinately wouldnt be having this conversation because Warwick would of WON...

First off, I don't care if it was a shot or a pass (it was a shot) when a defender fouls a player who has jumped in the air at the 3 point line, they will get 3 free throws. You just can't foul someone there. So it doesn't matter what he was doing, 90% of the time, he'll go to the line, thats basketball, deal with it.

Your above statement truly shows your absolutely terrible logic. You're saying if Warwick would have won, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Why? If they win it's not a bad call but if they lose its the worst call ever and cost them the game. The outcome of the game shouldn't influence your position on the call.

I'm going to take away from this game that Warwick is not very intelligent. Why on God's green earth would you sit in a 2-3 zone all game if your opponent is raining threes. CHANGE SOMETHING. Go to a 1-3-1, a 3-2, triangle and 2, man , something, anything. Also, I know Langstaff is a great player, but this just kinda goes along with the bad defense comments, one time Hagler has the ball on the wing facing away from the hoop. Langstaff tries to sneak out from the bottom of the zone and steal it from behind. Hagler obviously notices him and finds Grande standing as the only one left on that side of the court for a corner 3. He had already hit 2 or 3 of them in the quarter too. Have to be smarter than that. Times to gamble, and that is not one.

https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?f ... permPage=1]

This is the link to a picture of Jake Hagler's shot/pass. He isn't looking for a cutter. He's looking at the basket.