North Dakota Preps

winner-within wrote:

ndlionsfan wrote:

winner-within wrote:

ndlionsfan wrote:

lockdown wrote:

kentuckyblue wrote:ndlionsfan- You said that Northstar would get manhandled by the 1995 Carrington team which I also agree but how would you compare the 2012 Northstar team to the Leeds teams of the 90's, Cando's 2001 team that won state, or even the New Rockford Sheyenne teams that went to state mid 2000's?

How would that Carrington team slow down Jake Hagler though?

How would Northstar stop Jimmy Kleinsasser?

They wouldn't....you take a 1982/83 Munich team, 1983/84 Lankin/Adams, 1991/92 Munich, Craig/Kyle Nelson teams, 2010/11 Cavalier.....all these teams would rise holy havoc on any team in the State right now

Have a really tough time believing the Cavalier teams of the last two years would be that much better than teams of this season. The other teams you listed, yes, but Cavalier no.

I used the two years..(Exam: 83/84) as a reference to 1 team

Ok, but even so, if that team didn't dominate the state (or even make state) last year why do you feel they would "rise holy havoc" on all the teams this year? Do you honestly think they would get close to beating this year's Northstar team?

For sure....honestly....all of those teams I listed some easily

winner-within wrote:For sure....honestly....all of those teams I listed some easily

The other teams, yes, but Cavalier no.

ndlionsfan wrote:

winner-within wrote:For sure....honestly....all of those teams I listed some easily

The other teams, yes, but Cavalier no.

Match em up....You know last years Grafton would beat them....and Cavalier Beat them...once

dyhardballa09 wrote:It is hard to compare Hunter Berg's game to Hagler. I'm sure 30-50% of posters on here don't know about the Grenora Guru. Game was played a different way back then. Fouls were called differently, style of play was different. This is also a reason it is hard to compare Steve Blehm, Jimmy Kleinsasser, Phil Jackson, Les Lepson (stud at Iowa), Doug Swenson, etc. to current players. Yeah, Berg was awesome, but could he score with the physicality that today's game has that they didn't then.

Based on players since 1990 I would say Hagler is definetly a possible top 3 choice, I want to see him at college level first before comparing him to other players who did well at D1 level.
1) Jeff Boschee- Valley City-Outstanding college career at Kansas
2) Austin Dufault- Killdeer- 4 yr. starter at Colorado, finishing Sr. year
3) Hunter Berg-Grenora- shot 73% from the field as a senior!! That is crazy good. Averaged 13.1 pts/game @ UND
4) Doug Swenson- Halliday-Averaged 11-12 pts/game at Creighton
5) Joe Hanstad- Dickinson- Great HS player, anxious to see him at D1 level
6) Hagler.....time will tell

Hanstad and Hagler have chance to be 1 and 2 as time goes on...
I know Hagler is great player, but I would hate to see him fizzle out at a D1 level (similiar to Peyton Tivis at SDSU)

Physicality??? Really? The state tournament in 95 featured an NFL TE/FB in Kleinsasser, a Starting Middle Linebacker at Kansas and later NDSU and NFL Practice squads in Andrew Leclair, and an NFL Practice Squad Offensive Lineman in Chuck Klabo. Their is no comparison of size and strength across the board since that tournament physically. I played during that time frame and play pickup games against kids in HS now. The game was no less physical then then it is now.

The thing people forget about Berg is he did EVERYTHING well! Ball handeling, passing (see ricky rubio highlights for Bergs style), shooting, and defense. He was not just a one dimensional scorer which he did exceptionally well. He was offered to go to Iowa State but stayed home and went to Williston State. At UND he ran the point like a true point guard should, pass first shoot second. He could have easily gone out and been a scoring PG like Ben Woodside if he wanted to but that is not what the team needed. Bergs game was the complete package that I have not seen since. Personally in comparing Berg to Hagler playing the same position for me I dont see one area that Hagler is better at. Dont get me wrong Hagler is a great talent and will be deserving of every accolade he gets but Berg WAS THAT GOOD! The difference for me is the speed at which Berg did everything in comparison.

Austin Default is a great player but he is not better then Hunter Berg.

If you look on Rivals, there are only two prospects listed for ND in the class of 2013, a JC at Williston and AJ Jacobson. How could Rivals not be aware of a blue chip prospect like Hagler!?! OMG, someone needs to lose their job over this!

ndlionsfan wrote:

kentuckyblue wrote:ndlionsfan- You said that Northstar would get manhandled by the 1995 Carrington team which I also agree but how would you compare the 2012 Northstar team to the Leeds teams of the 90's, Cando's 2001 team that won state, or even the New Rockford Sheyenne teams that went to state mid 2000's?

That's tough. I think this year's Northstar would be right there with the NRS teams and have some great games. NRS was so tough 1-5, but NS has the best 2 guards on the same team we've seen in a long time. I think both those teams would match up well. Kind of the same with the Cando and NB teams in 2001. I think NS has the better guard combo, but don't know how they would stop Lindahl and Bonamie inside. Last year Northstar vs 2001 Cando would be a great game to watch! As for the Leeds teams, I think 2012 Northstar beats 97 and 98 Leeds, but loses to 91, 92, 93, and 99 Leeds. The early 90s Leeds teams just had too many players that were more physical, plus all had good inside big men that I wouldn't see Northstar matching up well with. 2012 Northstar vs 99 Leeds again would have been a great game to watch! Moser vs Hagler would a great matchup.

The thing that's great about the Northstar teams of the last few years (and Hagler especially) is that they are just so fundamentally sound and don't make mistakes. That makes them so tough to beat because they don't beat themselves. Haven't seen that since the MPCG teams in 02 and 03 and haven't seen that in a player since Craig Nelson.

For class B point guards, in my opinion, I would go with 1. Berg, 2. Hagler, 3. Nelson

haha you have to be from leeds and a lions fan, not that there is anything wrong with it, but everyone ive ever talked to from leeds all says the same things, Leeds teams were the best ever and their coach (larson i believe) was the greatest ever! haha anytime ive ever been around people talking about sports in leeds no matter what i or anyone else says they were always the best teams ever and had the greatest coach ever! must be why they and very good and even great teams that always choked and never adjusted well "ingame" sounded like a coaching problem to me. a group of athletic, dedicated kids can make a coach...look at north star coach hangler was never called a good coach before this run and had a losing record and now its nd coach of the year all cuz of the tallent and kids around him. although coach hagler was put in to coaching young out of college with no exp. so you have to let some of the early parts of his coaching slide. one thing that everyone over looks about these ns teams is that they play better together than and group of kids has, everyone knows where everyone is at and is going at all times, and there has never been players who think they should be doing things other then there roll on the team. leeds teams and players is questionable attitudes who thought that they should be the stars not just roll players, i.e. shawn blagen in eaerly 90's and shane anderson in late 90's. the 2001 cando team had the same thing with mitchel, pearl, and johnshon. i believe last years ns team beets the 2001 cando team and the ns team from 2010 would beat them too

1. Yes I am from Leeds, not too hard to figure out.
2. Never said anything about Leeds having the greatest teams or coach ever. Just don't know that much about other teams back then so that's what I talk about.
3. Name some teams from Leeds that were very good and choked out of the ones I listed that another person specifically asked someone to comment on? Larson was head coach from 92-99 and had the teams in 5 state tournaments (2 runner up and 1 championship)

Hagler has turned Northstar into arguably the top program in the state. I love they way they play team ball and focus on fundamentals. They've had a nice run of athletes as well. Do the athletes make the coach or does the coach make the athletes? That could be debated forever, but I believe you need both to be successful - a coach that will get the most out of his players, and athletically gifted players that are better than other teams.

I believe the Hagler coached Northstar teams of the last 4 years are almost identical to the Larson coached Leeds teams. Similar athletes, team comes first, discplined defense, great fundamentals, and good coaching.

Again, I talk about these teams because I'm from the area. Also have a lot of familiarity with MPCG, NRS, and FW. And that's why I don't compare them to the Grafton's, Minot Ryan's, Dickinson Trinity's, Watford City's, Linton's, etc. teams who had great runs in the last 20 years because I'm just not familiar with those teams and programs.

The only time I saw Berg play was on TV when I was younger when they went to state. I've watched Hagler at state and some youtube hi-lites, and for good measure I played against Craig Nelson.....I'm actually gonna give the edge to Hagler as the better HS player. He seems to be a little better than Berg at everything. On offense Hagler seems a little more developed as a scorer from the pull up 3 to posting up. He is averaging a tad more points and assists than Berg did. On defense I believe he is averaging more steals. Hagler is probably playing against tougher teams in his area than Berg. He is a little taller. He has won state, and gotten there multiple times. I can't imagine anyone having an edge over Berg with quickness, but maybe its a toss up? Hagler plays so aggressively on both ends of the court and rarely seems to make mistakes on either end, and of course he just wins baby. I'm only comparing them as HS players, I personally don't think how well they do in college should affect how we think of them as HS players, but thats just me.

Hagler > Berg > Nelson > Glasser - my top 4 PGs since Berg.

Back to the original topic of "Hagler vs. Berg" it seems as though people have gotten off the point. Berg dominated the state tourney and entire season on a team that would have not gotten out of the district. Hagler is a great player on a very good team. Not really fair to either player to make a comparison but lots of good discussion.

Hag doesnt have near the career he has had if it were back in the Berg days.............Kids back then spent half the time in the gym, at camps, no AAU or summerball ..........put Berg back in the early eighties with the Hillsboros and Newtowns and Edmores, Lintons and the same thing happens...........its pretty easy now days to make a 2,000 point player if you put your mind to it.

This is all ridiculous. Jake Hagler is a very good person off the court. I don't know Hunter Berg or the team he played with or the situation. Jake was born and playing in this current time frame. Jake will move on and play/school/work where he wants and as long as he achieves his dreams who cares what you all think. Jake will finish this year well and have a great year next year despite where all the analysts come up with how good he is or can be or what ever. A simple comparison yes but this forever argueing gets old.

@Winner-Within, Hagler is not playing back in Berg's days. There is AAU and summer basketball, and Hagler takes advantage of that. I find it hard to fault a player for taking advantage of every available opportunity. If a player wants to play AAU and summer basketball, then that player should go for it.

winner-within wrote:Kids back then spent half the time in the gym...

What makes you think Hagler wouldn't be doing that now if there was to AAU or summer ball?

its pretty easy now days to make a 2,000 point player if you put your mind to it.

How easy can it be if there is 0(?) current 2,000 point players in the state?

In support of Flip, why would we assume that Hagler doesn't spend half of his time in the gym? He might be doing that PLUS playing for Dakota Pride. Whatever he is doing, it is working wonders.

I'm also late to the party on this post. Earlier, a person had given a list of the top 6 ND players since 1990. I still wonder why Brian Qvale is never brought up in conversation. He is the Big Sky blocked shots leader, and is playing basketball professionally.

balla45 wrote:I'm also late to the party on this post. Earlier, a person had given a list of the top 6 ND players since 1990. I still wonder why Brian Qvale is never brought up in conversation. He is the Big Sky blocked shots leader, and is playing basketball professionally.

I agree. He seems to be forgotten a lot. It really just wasn't fair with him being 6'10 and very skilled.

Ok... The people that think Hagler is great must be some young pups... the same people that think Lebron is better than Jordan.
I played against Hunter and the guy was the complete package. He played with nobody on his team but made them all look good... pass shoot and defend and manage the game.
Hagler shoots the ball well and is a good player but even saying he is the best player in the State right now is even funny to me. The kid plays on a really good TEAM. You can not double or triple team him because the other players a really good on his team and will beat you.

Hunter had to play against double teams his whole career.

But I don't think either one is in the top five greatest basketball players in the state of ND of all time.

Just as a match up to Hagler. AJ Jacobson is having the best statistical season I have ever seen in Class A, and stands a very good chance to be Class A's first 2000 point scorer.

Currently averaging 25.0 points**, 11.4 rebounds** 4.4 assists, 3.1 blocks**, and 2.6 steals, while shooting 54.1% from the field, 45.7% from three*, and 79.2% from the line.

*-denotes EDC leader. **-denotes Class A leader.

maddog1971 wrote:Ok... The people that think Hagler is great must be some young pups... the same people that think Lebron is better than Jordan.
I played against Hunter and the guy was the complete package. He played with nobody on his team but made them all look good... pass shoot and defend and manage the game.
Hagler shoots the ball well and is a good player but even saying he is the best player in the State right now is even funny to me. The kid plays on a really good TEAM. You can not double or triple team him because the other players a really good on his team and will beat you.

Hunter had to play against double teams his whole career.

But I don't think either one is in the top five greatest basketball players in the state of ND of all time.

Why would you have to be young to think he is great? 3 State Appearances, One championship (possibly 2 very soon), over 1500 career points, oh yeah and he's a junior. I can't think of anybody in the state ever with that resume.

Who, in your opinion, is the best player in the state then?

balla45 wrote:Just as a match up to Hagler. AJ Jacobson is having the best statistical season I have ever seen in Class A, and stands a very good chance to be Class A's first 2000 point scorer.

Currently averaging 25.0 points**, 11.4 rebounds** 4.4 assists, 3.1 blocks**, and 2.6 steals, while shooting 54.1% from the field, 45.7% from three*, and 79.2% from the line.

*-denotes EDC leader. **-denotes Class A leader.

I went to see Shanley vs RR and I must've seen a poor game for AJ. He was the 3rd best player on the court that game. Kroeplin? really stood out scoring or finding the open man for an easy 2, and Arvidson was pretty aggressive and even threw one down over AJ on a fast break. If Strom figures things out he could be the best prospect of them all, he's got one of the nicest jumpers I've seen in awhile.

Hag doesnt have near the career he has had if it were back in the Berg days.............Kids back then spent half the time in the gym, at camps, no AAU or summerball ..........put Berg back in the early eighties with the Hillsboros and Newtowns and Edmores, Lintons and the same thing happens...........days to make a 2,000its pretty easy now point player if you put your mind to it

WOW thats one of the dumpest things ive read on PREPS in years...It takes a special athlete to reach that milstone, if it is as EZ as you think why arent there more 2000 plus scores ? especially since the three point line ? riddle me that batman!!!!

roison33 wrote:

balla45 wrote:Just as a match up to Hagler. AJ Jacobson is having the best statistical season I have ever seen in Class A, and stands a very good chance to be Class A's first 2000 point scorer.

Currently averaging 25.0 points**, 11.4 rebounds** 4.4 assists, 3.1 blocks**, and 2.6 steals, while shooting 54.1% from the field, 45.7% from three*, and 79.2% from the line.

*-denotes EDC leader. **-denotes Class A leader.

I went to see Shanley vs RR and I must've seen a poor game for AJ. He was the 3rd best player on the court that game. Kroeplin? really stood out scoring or finding the open man for an easy 2, and Arvidson was pretty aggressive and even threw one down over AJ on a fast break. If Strom figures things out he could be the best prospect of them all, he's got one of the nicest jumpers I've seen in awhile.

I think Kroeplin is incredibly good. Best pure passing point guard I've seen in Class A in years. I agree that he and Arvidson put on a show against Fargo Shanley in Grand Forks.

I am not sure which game you watched AJ play. I was at the game in Grand Forks and watched the game in Fargo. His stat lines from the two games:

23 points and 11 rebounds in Grand Forks, which is probably worst game he had this season, and he missed 9 free throws.
30 points, 11 rebounds, 6 assists, 2 blocks, 4 steals in Fargo.

This season, AJ has gone under 20 points 1 time and had double doubles all but two games. Very good chance to be Class A's all time leading scorer.

winner once again your post is a joke! Jake is AlWAYS in the gym, on the football field or on the diamond or on the course thats how the kids do it now days there winner...its called dedication for whatever season you are participating at the time! thats why these boys dominate!

I have watched Berg and Boschee and Hagler and Grande and Langstaff and all are or were very good guards at the HS level!

winner-within wrote:

ndlionsfan wrote:

lockdown wrote:

kentuckyblue wrote:ndlionsfan- You said that Northstar would get manhandled by the 1995 Carrington team which I also agree but how would you compare the 2012 Northstar team to the Leeds teams of the 90's, Cando's 2001 team that won state, or even the New Rockford Sheyenne teams that went to state mid 2000's?

How would that Carrington team slow down Jake Hagler though?

How would Northstar stop Jimmy Kleinsasser?

They wouldn't....you take a 1982/83 Munich team, 1983/84 Lankin/Adams, 1991/92 Munich, Craig/Kyle Nelson teams, 2010/11 Cavalier.....all these teams would rise holy havoc on any team in the State right now

Cavalier didnt even win state those years so that would mean that there would be 2 to 4 in those years that you think could beat them